Reefton

23 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

BTW I was referring to Oz tracks I  response to Fredas comments about Randwick and Eagle Farm.

Of course the option most of you seem to prefer is to do nothing or race less. 

 

Race less???

Well the technique of doing track renovations seems to be  VERY  effective in creating a 'race less' outcome.  I had no idea that was the intended purpose of all that pissing money up against the wall in the name of track renovation

48 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

For every bad track  reconstruction there have been at least twice as many good ones.  

Bullshit!

Invercargill

Gore

Wingatui

Ashburton

Riccarton

Rangiora

Kumara

Omoto

Wellington

Awapuni

Te Rapa

Pukekohe

Ellerslie

And there are probably more that do not spring to mind

Every single one had huge issues after track renovation.  Most settled down to be fair but equally there was major disruption in the aftermath of renovation

3 hours ago, Freda said:

Yes.

Quite a few years ago there was a meeting held at the Yaldhurst Hotel to discuss a 'vote of no confidence' in the track management processes.

A good number of stakeholders attended and, of course, in the [ robust ] discussion that ensued, the contractors who carried out the reconstruction work in 1998 were given a sound bagging.

Some of us were given tasks, mine was to email Godber of the [ then] RIU and express our concern not only about the condition of the track, but also the 'misinformation' given out.  My reply was that ' this is a beat-up, there is nothing to address here' ...and so on.   He also seemed to think that I was a troublemaker, although I had taken great care to explain that I was 'forwarding the concerns of the meeting', not conducting a personal vendetta.

The 'misinformation' concern was brushed aside as a 'misunderstanding' .

So that, as might be expected, went nowhere.  However, as one who likes to get as much information as possible before coming to a decision, I decided [ this off my own bat ] to find out just exactly what specifications the company involved had to work with.  It took a fair bit of ferreting out, as the principal of Laing's had since retired, and was, at that time, operating as a consultant. But, where there's a will there's a way, and eventually I tracked him down.

Duncan Laing was very approachable and was happy to discuss the situation.  I won't go into all the detail, but he was clear that the company was given a scope of work by the RIB...that being the old Racing Industry Board, before the 2003 Racing Act that morphed that body and the TAB into the R.B [ Racing Board ].

He also said that he had produced a manual for the management of the new-laid track, and felt that the incumbent manager [ Rob Lory ] had understood the requirements therein, and had done his best to follow them.  He was of the opinion that subsequent appointments had probably tossed it away as he didn't seem to think things were going as well as they should.

The thing to take out of all this, is that Laing's followed their instructions.  I don't think any contractor can ignore their scope of work and do something else.  So the company shouldn't [ IMO ] be held responsible for the construction faults, whatever they may be.  Those  [ experts ] responsible for producing the instructions have to wear that.

And we have seen problems arise not just here, but reconstruction work at Randwick[ ? ] I think had issues, as did Eagle Farm and I'm sure there will be several others come to mind.

That's another one of my constant statements - any time they touch a track they f#*k it.  Happened time after time after time

And what you are saying about track managers rings true too Pam because the issues here have been comparatively recent.  The only thing I remember from Rob Lory's time was the winter charge for the outside fence

Anyway like I say the advent of the AWT seems(touch wood) to have perhaps brought an improvement in the state and presentation of the turf track 

16 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not so sure you are correct on that.  

However maybe the irrigation policy has avoided the slipping happening more often.  

I abso-bloody-lutely sure Pam is correct on that

Slipping has never been a problem at Riccarton in modern times but what has been a massive issue is over irrigating or inconsistent irrigating causing lanes to develop in the track on raceday.  I am suspicious that may have to do with the way the track was laid down years ago but clearly the Club and the Conference(NZRC) relied on 'experts' to sort the track out and equally clearly the quality of the work is in serious doubt.  When you rely on 'experts' in any field it is (in my experience) a recipe for disaster. 

Ashburton was rated a Soft 5 yesterday (nomination morning) and a Soft 6 today(withdrawal day)

When a track is clearly rain affected AND there are horses looking for drier tracks what good reason is there why that Club is irrigating and secondly why did they not disclose that fact on the NZTR website nominations page?  It is in the meeting news release but not in the nominations/fields page.

1 minute ago, Doomed said:

The Thorndon mile has had a lot of names over the years, as has their other mile the Captain Cook, which used to be the big race at the March meeting. I think the Thorndon was previously the George Adams. The southerners have won both miles a few times.

Yes Powley and Grey Way a couple of fair types with their names on the honour's board I think

15 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Yes I have an idea Flying View might have won the sprint at Reefton then went on to win the Telegraph. Not sure re the Ray Harris ones but Brutus and Scotch Mist won the double at Greymouth at the old November meeting one year then went on to win the Governor General's Cup and the Concorde at the Avondale Cup meeting a couple of weeks later.  Brutus won a Marlboro Mile(now the Thornton) but not sure if he had run on the Coast in his lead up that year.  John Carran had a horse called Meadowlands which won at Reefton then at Trentham in lower grades(I think Morty trained it???).

But for you lot's benefit suggesting I  head to Trentham I will copy Nick Williams quote when asked if the family were taking their horses to Royal Randwick 'we don't bother with the provincials'

 

 

Note to self.  Do your research first.  Brutus didn't win a Thornton and it was never called the Marlboro Mile.  Thought he did but I am badly wrong there.  Might have run second in the equivalent maybe

6 hours ago, curious said:

Yes. Reefton was always an important lead up venue for SI trainers pointed to Trentham so it makes sense.

Yes I have an idea Flying View might have won the sprint at Reefton then went on to win the Telegraph. Not sure re the Ray Harris ones but Brutus and Scotch Mist won the double at Greymouth at the old November meeting one year then went on to win the Governor General's Cup and the Concorde at the Avondale Cup meeting a couple of weeks later.  Brutus won a Marlboro Mile(now the Thornton) but not sure if he had run on the Coast in his lead up that year.  John Carran had a horse called Meadowlands which won at Reefton then at Trentham in lower grades(I think Morty trained it???).

But for you lot's benefit suggesting I  head to Trentham I will copy Nick Williams quote when asked if the family were taking their horses to Royal Randwick 'we don't bother with the provincials'

2 hours ago, Huey said:

TBF their poor horses had to carry the trackside mock on them all week.

 

I suppose they have to pump their sponsors but I know what you mean

2 hours ago, All The Aces said:

I wasn't being critical. More pointing out how unusual it was yesterday for them. I am sure they will bounce back.   

Sorry neither was I trying to be critical but isn't it typical of the racing game? - the minute you get confident is the minute you get your butt kicked.

1 hour ago, curious said:

I can probably get it for less if the Reefton Jockey Club would like to sponsor a race.

Another wonderfully helpful suggestion.  I really am spoilt for possibilities here

3 hours ago, curious said:

I thought Reefton might be planning to shout them a corporate box or something. Only 5 grand for a small one,

I'll keep that possibility in mind

1 hour ago, All The Aces said:

 

Te Akau lined up five hot favourites today and they all got well and truly trounced. Prismatic and Sans Doute at Hawera along with Dynastic, Stella Splendida and Imperatriz at Matamata. You don't see that very often.                                                                 

And Opie would have opened up a very hot favourite to win the jockeys competition at Matamata with twelve rides and ended up with a win a second and two thirds.  

Go figure.         

 

You can't win all the time.  If you could Sheik Mohammed or whatever his name is would have everything and we wouldn't have a racing game.

I imagine TA will be back and good on them when they are

You Wellington Cup officianados help please.  Daughter who lives there wants to book for Cup day.  Wants to know where the best place is for just a social day with her mates.  She is not a racing person but like most of the 20 somethings likes a day out. 

I've never been there but told her I knew just the place to find out.

Help me please!!

Thanks guys

24 minutes ago, curious said:

He was but appears to have only stood one season and produced 6 named foals.

Ok.  Didn't recall that.  What a magnificent stallion Sovereign Edition was. Stayers sprinters two and three years and top class older horses.  And just as good in Aussie

Actually correct myself.  A little research indicates Mr Illusion ran 1000m in 55.91.  49.5kg and Maree Lyndon indeed 1983

Four year old stallion by Sovereign Edition from An Illusion.  Surprised he wasn't sent to stud bred like that

1 hour ago, curious said:

Maree Davey maybe?

Reckon that would be more like it (Maree Lyndon?)

4 hours ago, Freda said:

I agree with the 'expertise' allusion.

However times have generally been quick at Ricc, since the renovation in 1998.  Good horses can really fly - but even moderate ones go fast as well, it may have something to do with layout, camber, incline, whatever, but the trouble is, it isn't consistent.    And horses will cop a couple of runs on unforgiving ground, but most can't manage too many.    

Years ago, not long after renewal, I had a very average horse which posted a time of 1.10 for his 1200 mtrs.    Fair go, he couldn't have run 1.10 downhill with a tail wind.

Mr Illusion ran 53 or something for 1000 on the old 'straight' chute there one day Pam before the renovations.  Re yours running 1.10 well as I said that Thunder Bay cracked 33 for 600 and she was a long way from a good horse (won a couple but no Winx or Avantage)

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

FFS you can run a fast time on concrete - ONCE!

A fast time does not equate to longevity for a horse.

Is that right?  Well the two year old I mentioned(Thunder Bay) twice ran up against - and finished second to - a fair two year old of the time (and on the first occasion ran a tick over 33s and the second well under 33s for her last 600).

That fair two year old(who went a lot faster than her each time) went on to win multiple group ones and $2.1m - its name was Avantage

So twice running on 'concrete' did not appear to do her any harm.

Back in the seventies they would have three divisions in a race.  We had a few of those at Reefton. Jockeys would ride in the first then the third.  Quite handy because if your bet missed in the first then you had two more chances in the second and third.

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

BTW resting Riccarton by using the AWT and cancelling winter turf racing isn't going to fix the supposedly premier South Island turf track.  Ambivalence and meek acceptance by stakeholders has bought the chickens home.

The trouble is they let so called 'experts' near the bloody thing in the  first place twenty or thirty years ago.

Not unlike the 'expert' Managers that they employ to run NZ racing and the TAB.  Most of us know the bigger the 'expert' the bigger the cockup they make of things

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

It's all interconnected.  Crap tracks throughout the country limit opportunities.  I guess Ellerslie being renovated will help.

I haven't seen a decent surface at Riccarton for years.

For a place that lacks a decent surface they run some fairly smart times at the place.  Even a very average animal I had a share in broke 33 for the last 600 in a 2year old race. I'd hate to see what they would run for 1200m if the track was up to scratch.

9 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

The Guineas grading has a lot to do with the track.  Was Hawke’s Bay canned because the track was going to be too heavy to allow a class horse to win?  The best horses don't actually race that well on too hard or too heavier a track.  The latter often results in a roughie winning like a Roc de Cambes mudder that doesn't go on to win much else let alone compete in OZ.

Given the parlous state of out tracks and the downgrade warnings on our group races will we see more decisions like last weekend?

 

Just tell us the last time 2000 Guineas day was marred by the track?  1000 Guineas day two years ago was a debacle but the first day was a perfectly acceptable track.

The issues with the Riccarton track are generally in early Spring and Autumn - by Cup time it seems to have settled and anyway it appears the use of the AWT and resultant less pressure may have alleviated the main track issues(to be fair I haven't been watching the Riccarton grass track racing closely so stand to be corrected there by Pam)

There haven't been too many complaints about Ellerslie at Derby time so why is the Derby under threat?

10 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

I know it's past your bedtime over there, but........I'm referring to the demise of racing in the south, mainly HQ, Riccarton, the state of the track, the training tracks other than the new toy, and all things shit.....the grandstand, the insurance fuck up, it's becoming like Trentham, soon the crowd will be,   trainers, owners, jocks, strappers, vet, barrier staff and the three drunks and the P addict that have been sleeping rough in the urinals........and the two old ladies at the Tote windows.........and maybe the junk food purveyor in the van of old.......shall I go on. Lets not count the committee room, that's cheating, lets keep it real.

 

Ah I know you don't frequent the place but on all but about three days of the year that is what Riccarton has  been like for years.

Much as it is(or should be) the best track in the south if not the country it is a shocking place to watch a race due to the distance they are from you and that stinking nor easterly that seems to blow every time I go there.  The vast majority sit inside and watch the TV's and accordingly why would I travel three hours there and three hours back?

I've only been there once(to Sydney) but Riccarton is an awful long way from Royal Randwick.

Agreed 200% re time to relocate - been saying it for years

2 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

And just to add to a very poignant post, where on earth is the trainers association on this, that rabble of paper tigers, sycophants, call them what you want, Chris Wood was the last straw for me, although he sprukes he 'left that mob', his  written acknowledgement complimenting the good job Saundry did was insulting and reflects on the different attitudes shown by the north in comparison to those suffering most in the CD and the South.

The industry is divided, and it shows, I don't understand how the large Canterbury stables did not show strength and a united front? maybe it's the age difference, as I'm an old fart, however to see ex Southern trainers earning a good quid up here in QLD says little for the provinces they left. At their age to have to up sticks to remain viable in an industry they obviously love proves that apathy and disrespect is rampant in NZ......not only in the racing industry, but across the board.

The QLD or rather BNE trainers stood as one against a tyranny of stupidity, ignorance and authoritarianism displayed by the governing body and it worked, it had to, it was either them or us, so to speak, but it proved correct.

Am I being severe, you betcha, why, cos I give a fuck, if I do and I'm 3000km away why the hell can't those that can do far my than I.....that's my worry, dont know why I do, but I do, silly fucker that I am.

 

 

I presume when you say 'large Canterbury Stables' you are talking about Pitty?  Like our host on this channel there seems to be an attitude of looking to Pitty to make some difference or some effort to right the wrongs.

I have to admit he is a mate of mine and has trained for me for a long time(admittedly generally only small shares but he still has done the training).  He is also CRUCIAL to the well being of the Reefton Jockey Club(along with every other Trainer who supports us but he  - and KT Myers - has the wherewithal to make a massive difference)

So where does Michael stand?  Well to be fair he is a lot closer to the end of his career than the start but he makes it quite clear - and repeatedly  - he would be happy if all racing was at Riccarton and in particular is very fond of the good stake days.  As he says it is cheaper for his owners to race there.  For all that if he thinks he has one good enough he is not frightened to take on the Guineas, Derbys or Oaks either in NZ or beyond nor is he reluctant to travel to Trentham when the big carnivals are on(wrecked as the major one appears to be these days).  There are at least two Southern Clubs that have treated him shabbily(apparently - I do not know the details of Invercargill  but do in the case of Greymouth) and he accordingly rarely if ever goes there(but they seem to sail on without him so who cares?) .  He is a fan of the all weather track(my jury is still out but I have to say AWT racing at Riccarton is a bloody sight better spectacle than running in the bowels of winter on the Riccarton Turf).  My objection to it is the fact that the Provincial Growth Fund was used to fund it when its clear aim is to focus racing on Riccarton and shut down most of the southern country courses.

So if the powers that be will not listen to anyone else in the game why would they listen to Pitty?  He cannot do it on his own and I suspect he cannot be bothered with trying(most successful people - and I know a fair few - have an attitude of not worrying about things they cannot change).

Unless you are in the Northern Trainer clique or the Breeder group nobody is going to listen to you until it is far too late - and I suspect it is already far too late.  The type of people who get on the TAB and NZTR Boards and their administrators are no more interested in the opinions of the likes of MRP than fly to the moon.  They are generally the type with a glossy CV and eff all else but in today's world when it comes to getting ahead that is what sells.  Until we revert to the scenario where people who actually care are overseeing the game there is no hope and, as I said in the first sentence of this paragraph, I suspect the time for hope has come and gone. 

Sad but reality.  And I for one would be out tomorrow if I could find someone to take over my role(as Club President that is and any horse ownership interests would quickly follow).  They don't want us and they don't care about us and I no longer really care about them. 

4 hours ago, Freda said:

 no, sorry, Mr Goodson, I don't see any remedy in your mindset.

At least the beginning of a remedy could be for Mr Goodson and his ilk to tender their resignations immediately.

Just a suggestion...