Reefton

Shit if the Derby and the 2000 Guineas are under threat then we have no hope.  They are about the only two races along with the Oaks where the winner/placegetters are generally competitive in Aussie later in their Group One three year old races.

If they are not Group Ones realistically do we deserve any Group Ones

5 hours ago, nomates said:

So it looks that finally our serious decline in quality racing is catching up with us

 

That serious decline in quality racing came after a serious decline in quality administration.  Too many wankers looking to pad their CV's and not enough with a genuine interest in trying to further the interests of the game and its participants. 

Just now, Reefton said:

Wasn't long ago he was talking about all the diverse income streams NZTR had with the various betting agencies paying commissions to them

Was that just a BS line?

He and his cronies would be better to turn their attention of why Kiwis bet offshore than attempting to stop them doing so

 

 

when I say BS line I mean bulshit line not Bruce Sharrock line

5 hours ago, mikeynz said:

I see that guy Sharrock last night suggesting closing borders for betting a very real prospect, thoughts on this one.

Wasn't long ago he was talking about all the diverse income streams NZTR had with the various betting agencies paying commissions to them

Was that just a BS line?

He and his cronies would be better to turn their attention of why Kiwis bet offshore than attempting to stop them doing so

1 hour ago, nomates said:

Woodville never dries out in the winter , it lives under a tap . My mum lived in Pahiatua for a couple of years but gave up and left saying it never stopped bloody raining , and she came from Scotland .

For Gods sake don't come near the Coast!

yes he had Mutual Belle and Pinstripe plus one I think called Mississippi Red which was handy.  He was the son of our long time President Ken Gray(great bloke) who died a few months back.  I hadn't seen him myself for years but of course he was at the funeral

2 hours ago, mikeynz said:

It came to my attention that it's on South Canterbury anniversary day,( the one off holiday) Why not a Raceday at Washdyke ?  use to be Orari, a lot of those one day  holidays,  lots have not much to do ,on a slightly different tangent, I dont even think there is a gallop meeting on labour day, most of the public holidays  seem to be becoming non events ,racing wise.

cos hey don't want to pay time and a half for tote staff

7 hours ago, nomates said:

Well having a shield game and a G1 raceday on the same day suggests no one in either sport has a clue , maybe some bright spark could have thought why not try and make it a package deal so people could go to both , sounds almost like a half decent weekend then .

Why am i even suggesting it , both sports are clueless .

I said that in a thread a couple of months back but apparently the administrators are all good it is the stakeholders who are at fault.

2 hours ago, Bloke said:

 

I have decided to go to Riccarton for The Cup Day as I want to pay honour to one of the greats, Show Gate ( she has been laid to rest there) who I witnessed completing an amazing treble during Cup Week in 1974

 

The greatest of them all

2 hours ago, nomates said:

LRC was in the Horowhenua Consortium with OMRC when i arrived in Levin 28 years ago . Race definitely intended to sell the track if they got hold of it 20+ years ago and whilst they were going to lease the track back to LRC this time it was on short term leases from what i can gather , the intention would always be to sell sooner rather than later once they got their hands on it .

We will see whether NZTR are now going to flex their muscle .

yes it will be interesting

1 hour ago, nomates said:

I'm sure he has and good on all that voted for keeping the track , the worry i see is the 40% of members that voted to hand the track over . That is much higher than i would have expected . When the club had to deal with the same issue 20 years ago i don't remember exactly the numbers but it was very small that voted to hand it over .

The next move will be interesting . 

I guess 20 years ago Levin was still racing on its own track and quite happily so.  Now that 40% are probably thinking the status quo is a bit uninteresting and no doubt have been promised the earth about the benefits that will come of RACE and that the Levin track will be protected and God knows what.  Once they are hooked into RACE the story might well be a hell of a lot different especially if there is a cool $10m plus asset sitting there wanting to be plundered by the RACE hierarchy.

The North Canterbury Racing Club were probably once led up the garden path in a similar way about the benefits of tying themselves into Riccarton.  Not only did mismanagement shut their track down(and nearly kill someone) but now the Club doesn't even own its own track and in any case the track is going to be sold off for the major benefit of the CJC 

On 12/08/2022 at 5:35 PM, Chief Stipe said:

 

"NZTR has spoken to us about it and basically said make a decision or we will," he said.

To paraphrase that 'Either you give everything you have to RACE or we will force you to give everything you have to RACE'

I hope the resurgence in members(including presumably SA) is successful in giving the one fingered salute to NZTR

11 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

How was it a "massive failure"?

Were these projects "massive failure's"?

• methanol plant at Waitara
• ammonia/urea plant at Kapuni
• synthetic-petrol plant at Motunui
• expansion of the Marsden Point Oil Refinery
• expansion of the New Zealand Steel plant at Glenbrook
• electrification of the North Island Main Trunk Railway between Te Rapa and Palmerston North
• a third reduction line at the Tiwai Point aluminium smelter, near Bluff
• the Clyde Dam on the Clutha River.

The projects weren't limited to those though.  They definitely make the PGF look a waste of time.

100% correct

The problem was that the following Labour government gave virtually the whole lot away while keeping the debt for building them.  In some cases they paid the 'buyer' to take it off their hands

They have returned huge dividends to their new owners over the years but knowing the way big business operate they have probably paid beggar all tax because the massive tax losses  up to the point of sale would have been 'sold' with them

When we go to Cromwell races each year we will often trip to Clyde.  I look at that massive hunk of concrete and think 'How could anyone say that is not an asset to NZ?'  Ditto the lake behind it that provides all those recreational opportunities. And the superb roads down there both in Cromwell town and the state highways all courtesy of the Ministry when the lake was created

Muldoon and Think Big is no different(other than scale) to the PGF or the 'shovel ready' carry on we have had in the last couple of years.

1 hour ago, Turny said:

Sure is a great serve Curious.

I am waiting for the day I see Committee members walk the room on the ground floor and hand out a hundred $20 food and drink vouchers to the loyal regulars..... think I will be waiting a bloody long time.

Interestingly on WC Day, I was stunned to see 7 under 35s on the ground floor ... that was a first for many years

There is one of the Committee people Bill(?) who is often there when I go to Riccarton who invariably offers to shout me a drink.  The problem is I am generally driving home for three hours after so usually decline(but still appreciate it).  I don't have a problem with the  Riccarton Committee.  The CJC will be like every other Club - they will struggle to get people keen to be part of it

2 hours ago, curious said:

We had the Balmerino Room buffet both Wednesday and Saturday last week. Now $45 I think. Excellent Wednesday. Good Saturday.

I'll bet it tasted good Wednesday after a nice win like that

50 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

I have no idea how to fix NZ, racing, and otherwise, what I do know is if you walk away, it's well and truly rooted. After years of disinterest from Gov and the useless series of racing ministers, and then the procession of useless Aussies and Poms hired by even more useless Kiwi's that couldn't believe their luck falling into huge salaried management positions racing is in the abyss it is.

Absolutely the fault is with hierarchy, no risk on that, we need to be forever grateful for people like you Reefton, people that never gave up, people that fight on to this day, people who love racing for what it is, the grandest sport of them all. 

Most don't have a platform, everyday they must dread reading the propaganda that's emitted from Jackson St, and cringe, or, didn't read at all, just go about their business and occasionally dropping by on race day to watch a few, have a wee punt, and reminisce about the good old days, gone, but not forgotten......sadly.

Thanks again Brian, your bloods worth bottling mate, go well.

Thanks for that JB

The very first sentence sums it up.  As l always say I know all about what is wrong in the game but I sure would hate the job of fixing it.  One thing I am sure of is that like virtually every organisation where the administrators aren't paying their own bills it is overrun with bureaucracy.  CS may well be right that the RIU is out of control but I very much doubt it is excessive wages paid to the stipes dragging it down.

We will struggle onwards and be on my knees every night praying that the KT Myers barn doesn't get struck down by a virus next Christmas time.  Without wanting to belittle the support of all the other marvelous contributor horses wise the Coast would be f#*ked without him

13 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

Yet it seems stakeholders don't really care or are oblivious to the now out of control spending and a decline in the RIB performance.

 

You have developed an unbelievable fascination with blaming 'stakeholders' for not righting the wrongs in this industry.  What you clearly have no idea of is the fact that most 'stakeholders' have been battling for years(each in their separate ways - not all are capable or inclined to be like me and attack these pricks via submissions on various mad proposals they come up with - but even if they are only at their local racing club President or if they are sacking a horse which might win a race somewhere someday but that five years ago they would have persevered with they are taking their stand.  Another example is punters taking their business offshore)

It is absolute bullshit to say that the problems in NZ racing are the fault of the 'stakeholders'.  I am not a big punter(not a good enough judge) nor a big owner and the President of NZ's smallest racing club but I have been through the mill in this game whether stable hand, administrator in virtually every role, owner, punter, horse (and racing people) lover and overall enthusiast.  I have smashed my head against the brick wall of racing hierarchy for years and years and I'm bloody tired of it.  And I talk to a lot of people(like Pam for instance) who are just as sick of the way things are going as I am and who invariably have contributed enormously and continuously in their own way to try to get these idiots to see reason.  It is impossible.  One of the funnier things about the current situation is to have the likes of Murray Acklin, David Lloyd and(I understand) even Gray Chittick, who were mortal enemies 20 - 25 years ago now onside with the dissatisfaction and doing their bit as well.

Look at those who submitted on the Racing Act - every one (essentially) ignored.  As I said many were not capable(either through time constraints or maybe 'not knowing what to say') of submitting themselves but that doesn't mean they were not appalled at the implications.  When I had completed my own submission some dickhead politician(who I couldn't identify) quipped  'thanks for the lecture'.  F#*king arsehole!  But that is an example of what you are dealing with.

I have had one huge win saving our club but for all that I have submitted here there and everywhere and invariably been ignored.  What the bloody hell more can I do?  Ironically had I lost that particular battle then by now I would have long since walked away and occasionally had a look a the results or attended a meet but really I would no longer care what happened to the industry and most certainly would not have a horse share or two.

The problem is not stakeholder indifference it is disconnection between the stakeholders and the hierarchy.  The stakeholders are ignored but they are the basis of the game

29 minutes ago, Ludwig said:

Just spotted the corgi racing from the USA on ESPN. Huge crowds,no stewards enquiries, no endless wait between races. Perhaps the CJC could boost attendance with this?

probably wouldn't need a lot of room either.  You could run it in the Committee room!

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I think @Reefton was asking how do they fund non-TAB racedays.

 

no he wasnt

How the hell do they fund it?

24 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Perhaps even sadder than the jumps situation is the 3yo situation. We always knew the jumps would struggle, and of course that 3yo race always struggles as well.

Just out of interest I went back to 1987. The Haldon Plate, run one week before the Nationals for maiden 2yos, was split into two separate races; one of 10 starters and one with 12. Then they ran 3yo races on the 1st and 3rd days of National week with 8 and 10 starters respectively. 40 starters in 2/3yo races over two weeks. Only six noms this week.

It is inevitable jumps racing will die off, but surely 2yo and 3yo racing struggling is a big worry. I thought we had lots of syndicates these days and they wanted instant gratification.

For all of the highly paid administrators employed in the head offices, the industry really does appear to be totally leaderless.

And as others have suggested, once ChCh loses the Nationals the two big Guineas races will follow very quickly, within two years I would say. Is the CJC too thick to realise any of this?

They may be too thick or they might not be but it is the inevitable result of (1) the neglect of the grass roots (2) the fact that jumping is stuffed and when K Myers and P Nelson chuck it in that will be the end of it and (3)the growing influence of the Waikato mafia in controlling NZ racing.

I really doubt there is a hell of a lot the CJC can do about the inexorable march of 'progress'.

Unless they sell up of course and take the money to develop a new facility and feed higher stakes

According to my info the outside of the course proper at Riccarton last Friday was diabolically heavy for horses heading from the birdcage to the crossing onto the AWT.  The outside has always been the best so what hope the  fence given the moisture they have had?  They have got a couple of days of Nor westers on offer though.

Tim doesn't seem too happy about things.

In other news I see that 'Regional Track Advisors' have been appointed and ours is none other than the Riccarton Track Manager Mr Chapman.  Just the sort of person we need with a track record(excuse the pun) like his.

Anyway I hope to hell they run the Winter Cup because I have half a leg of one Pitty fancies a bit.  I'm a bit broke at present and could do with the stake.  if it gets down to eight runners and no northerners it will suit me fine though I suspect that bloke from Wanganui won't be put off by the prospect of a dodgy track

48 minutes ago, Freda said:

The Nats offered very little resistance to the 'Act' - and they could have - so I doubt whether a change to the logical 'other side ' would achieve much.  Hope I'm wrong though.

They claim(Maureen Pugh told me this) that they got the community consultation/mediation clauses inserted into the Act and the requirement to take into account the community contribution to and use of facilities.  I don't even know if they are there or not but the DIA certainly wanted submissions on the process a few months back.

The Nats probably think that racing is an irrelevance in the modern age and why waste their time on opposing strongly an Act that would reap them eff all votes anyway(a fair enough conclusion).  And of course(and I do not know this) McKelvie their racing spokesman - now resigning - is a very wealthy farmer so who knows if the Waikato mafia was in his ear.

National, like them or not(and I do), is not going to be the saviour of NZ racing.  And nor is racing going to have any sort of priority if and when they get back in.  While in the old days the Southland Farmer typically had a dozen mares or active racehorses those days are long gone and they are all old men now.  Nobody really wants to listen to them and their influence is rapidly fading.  The young farmers are more concerned about how the mortgage is going to get paid than whether the local goat track is sold up.

24 minutes ago, nomates said:

My understanding is that they called a SGM earlier but that was canned and set for a later date , i assume it was too rushed and those against needed time to gather they're forces to fight it . I'm not completely sure of the actual facts of the situation , whether the LRC president and vp approached Race or Race made the initial contact is depending where you stand . 

I have been here , Race made this approach 20+ years ago , a SGM was called for what was termed a friendly discussion and fact giving meeting , was anything but , walking into the room the whole Race committee was sitting across the front of the room and Guy Sargent and another NZTR cronie were there also , quite intimidating when that was not what members were expecting . The initial talk and information period was friendly enough but when it Race couldn't make a commitment that the track wouldn't be sold and members started getting up and speaking and making it clear it wasn't a goer the room turned decidedly frosty and the friendly discussion turned quite hostile . Sargent making veiled threats about the future of the club if they didn't get on board . The then LRC president and the majority of the committee who were for it were not happy , but it forced members into action and at new elections a new committee were elected in .

The thing is in the intervening years LRC has given up 3/4 racedays , used to have 7 , gave up their G1 race to Race which now run it at Trentham , mostly because of threats by NZTR which IMO LRC should have fought harder , to the stage where the club is a shadow of it's old self , but not alone there , most of the smaller clubs in NZ are in the same position because they have been slowly strangled by they own parent body .

Levin is still in a comfortable financial position , sold land for a retirement village and get an annual annuity from that , built new tie ups over on the track side of the road along with new parking , that leaves a parcel of land where the old tie ups were that can also be sold to developers .

Levin has a place in the CD structure , A/W or not trainers want grass tracks to educate their horses on and the Levin track fills that . IMO it is short sighted of the industry to let it go , but when moola is involved , especially the amounts that i was told , then common sense and greed over rule all common sense .

We are all discussing this from the disadvantage of not enough information , perhaps if SA could have given us a little more light at to what is going on we would have a better understanding of the situation , you never know someone might have some knowledge to impart that could help their fight .

Where does this end , more than likely as you say , the parent body beating up the club and taking it . If this is the way of NZ racing it is a sad indictment on where NZ racing has found itself . very sad indeed .

the difference is 20 years ago talk of seizing the assets was just talk.  Now they have the ability to do it and that is dangerous.

I hope SA is right and there is an exciting development for the Club but NZTR have that right to declare them surplus to requirements and start the process.  There are a lot of people naive about this threat.  The Harness people at Reefton just roll their eyes when I warn them clearly thinking (and they have said this) 'We have a great relationship with HRNZ and they wouldn't do that to us'.  Then there is the Rugby Club which put up a third of the cost of our Admin building but nobody thought to retain the agreement between the parties so there is no written evidence.  Before my time but the ex President said we gave the signed agreement to the bank because we(RJC) had to borrow for our share.  It was forty years ago so fat chance of the bank having the document now.  And then there are the townspeople some of whom on facebook reacted like it was me making this up and trying to grab their course.  Sometimes you wonder why you bother.  

9 hours ago, nomates said:

Still can't get on the right page . Only one of us has to harden up .

The facts : The newbie turned up blowing hard about saving Levin , that's not positivity , they gave no info to back up the comments , so that's just makes it big talk .

                : We didn't put the boot in , we defended ourselves to his belittling our input into the industry . If anybody was putting the boot in it was your newbie .

                : Perhaps they are trying to save Levin , we don't know that because they have given us no substance to back their claim . I've been there where they are , done exactly that , so if they are i know what they are attempting and i applaud them for it .

                : We weren't talking about it's demise , we were discussing the information that i had been given and the pros and cons of it and the wider implications , the nature of a forum .

                : Still waiting for your neutrality as moderator to kick and inform the newbie that they were out of order as well , coming onto the forum and taking pot shots at posters for no good reason other than their own big noting is not the way to begin , and perhaps give some substance to their claims that they are the savior of LRC .

                : As per usual your arguing the points that suit your narrative , nothing new there .

Anyway as far as  the exciting news SA apparently is aware of you can imagine the Petone response if Levin pulls out of this Race thing.   Pretty simple 'Right boys there's a $30m penny sitting on the pavement here.  We will refuse them any more racedays, declare their venue surplus to requirements and seize it under the Racing Act 2021'

They aren't exactly brimming with Clubs looking to throw a heap of cash the industry's way and these guys(even if it is only the President and his VP) ought to have looked before they lept.

The Race guys are going to be right in NZTR's ear if this big fish isn't landed and NZTR will, I would imagine, be keen as mustard to help their Race friends out of a financial hole.

If SA is right and it is only the top two they really ought to have convened the SGM and made sure the Club Members knew what they were planning before they talked turkey with Race.

On 21/07/2022 at 12:27 PM, Chief Stipe said:

@Reefton   Was the leading Riccarton Trainer that took their horses to gallop at Rangiora on the turf one of those principled ones that said they'd never go back there?  

 

I will ignore the vast majority of that post but assume with this quote you are suggesting it was MR Pitman who took his horses to Rangiora to gallop?  It bloody well wasn't but if they were a 'leading' trainer I imagine the have trained a bloody sight more winners than you or I and have a fair idea of what they are doing.  I am not going to question their judgment whoever they are.

Just back on the NZ Racing versus NZ Rugby comparison I note one S Hansen getting stuck in this week about the idiots running the NZ Rugby cutter.  Echoes of high profile racing people commenting on NZTR.