Reefton

You know nothing about whether Pike should have been open cast and anyone who blames anyone other than Air NZ for Erebus is either ignorant or has never read the books. A lot of people went to work at Pike for a long time before it exploded. Just because a lot came and went did not mean it was safe.

Rangiora raced twice a year Belittle the Pike River disaster eh? Obviously it is not you who lost a son brother or father in it. Just like it is not you who has to look after Jude after Rangiora.

Believe it or not that's what Whittall used to say Remarkable coincidence

For those defending Rangiora let me tell you a little 21st century fairy story(well it is a story but tragically it is not a fairy story.....) Many years ago a group of blokes decided they would develop a coal mine at a place called Pike River.... Straight away many experienced people said 'that mine is in a seam that will be very gassy'(ie dangerous). But the blokes developing it poo poo'd that idea and put out a press release saying there were no gas concerns. And so the mine developed and the stories of close calls and danger were all around the town. And some(mainly experienced mining people) said 'this is a ticking time bomb' - and many refused to go anywhere near it. Then there were some who said 'we know it is dangerous but we are going to work there regardless' even though there were other mining options in the district. Then there were some who had no real idea and worked there in total ignorance of the danger. And some of them we believe took things like cigarettes, lighters, cellphones and aluminium cans down the mine. And others even put plastic bags over the gas monitors to stop them from going off and forcing everyone out of the mine. And the people who were supposed to monitor it got bullshitted up by the management because they had no idea of what was safe and what was not and were very susceptible to management palaver and hospitality. And as time wore on some of those oldtimers who vowed they would not go near it relented and joined the Pike workforce..... And the stories of near misses and gas incidents continued to circulate around the town......... then one Friday afternoon about 3.45pm ........ bang! Well not really 'bang' - more like BANG!!!!!!!! Anyone care for a walk down the 'Rangiora 'tunnel? Incidentally guys who know a lot more than me say it would be like being in the barrell of a gun being in the tunnel(the drift) when it explodes

Yes I think one of Ray Harris' flipped over the outside fence onto a bonnet on the way back to scale at Hoki one day and died of a heart attack. Ah those were the days! Thanks for the support Morty. We know Reefton is a long long way from perfect but it is a long long way from the worst. As someone who has been there and done it I respect your opinion.

And another thing - if Reefton is so frigging dangerous and Rangiora is so safe how come Reefton races on and Rangiora is shut? I know they aren't that sharp at NZTR but I don't think they are that bloody thick!

Facts please to back up what you have just said. Can you tell me the last time someone had a serious brain injury due to a fall at Reefton(Rangiora J Lawson), the last time someone was killed at Reefton(Rangiora J McGartland) and the last time someone was paralysed at Reefton(Rangiora J Jamieson.) And further can you explain why after the Judy Lawson incident it was agreed by NZTR that Rangiora would never be raced on again. Strange for a track that is so safe to have all those black marks against it. Chris Johnson deserves to be listened to but there was at least one other very successful Southern rider who refused to ride even trials there after Judy's accident.

Might go - but if we do go and it is a result of lack of support that is the old economic rule of supply and demand - there was no demand for the service we supply. I don't mind that either but in the meantime we have a very strong support base though God help us if K Myers' team ever cops a Christmas virus. And we are lucky to be racing at that Christmas time when there are a few nags running around. I would rather close down because of that than because John Messara decrees from the Hunter Valley that we aren't up to the job.

New Zealand's leading trainer? Te Akau hasn't based itself at Rangiora during the spring for bloody years! What planet are you on? They had stables there but it would be a good five years since they vacated them.. They stay at Riccarton(some might cynically say so they can supervise the irrigation programme) You think you are clever having a crack at Pitty - well I have said it before and will say it again - he doesn't need to prove anything in this game and I would listen to his opinion long before most others on here

So long as they were consistent I wouldn't object so much. All the Coast tracks are too small and Greymouth and Kumara are prone to track problems. We have the best track surface - by a street - and arguably the best facilities AND we are not flood prone. We also regularly do better turnover that Grey with a midweek day versus their holiday/weekend meeting. We have invariably better weather at that time of year. Why should we be the one sacrificed? They can go and get rooted as far as I am concerned but if they shut the whole of the Coast well I would be happy to walk away. It is like everything else in this country(the green movement principally) - give the Coast a boot in the guts to make it look like you are doing something

I think the ownership has been transferred now - didn't we have another string discussing what went on there a year or two back? I agree there is something that reeks in the way the CJC acquired those assets but I guess if a club committee wants to lay down and let itself be ripped off that is their prerogative. In the case of(say) the Reefton Jockey Club we have stood and fought and we will stand and bloody fight again if we have to. Those assets were owned freehold by the Club in the 1880's long before NZTR or the TAB were ever thought of. Those assets belong to the people of Reefton not to the NZ Racing industry. Incidentally the weekend before last was the classic example of the disaster awaiting NZTR if they do shut us down. Omoto would have been under three metres of water, Kumara has no boxes and Hokitika is gone. The roads out of the Coast were all closed and if there had been a lot of horses at Omoto Bernie boy would have been in crappers creek. We are the only alternative.

Don't talk shit. Rangiora was (and is) unsafe which Reefton is not and neither is Greymouth. Judy Lawson(who is a mate of mine) has a permanent brain injury due to the state of Rangiora and the way it was neglected. There have been other Rangiora casualties as well. The South Island's premier trainer for the last thirty years will not trial a horse at Rangiora and that makes a VERY relevant point. As to the to and fro of how Riccarton got ownership of Rangiora that is another story but they(the North Canterbury Racing Club) will not be the only club to have their assets stolen before this is finished if Saundry and those others have their way.

I suspect McKelvie is mates with some of the big players in the breeding game and would give them support though he may be reluctant to say so publicaly and alienate a lot of his rural supporters from areas losing courses. The Nats did eff all to amend that Racing Act and he was on the select committee which tells me he is a closet supporter of the Messara Mob

Is Sharrock a brother of Alan Sharrock?

Problem is there is a cesspool of incompetent people who put their hands up for those jobs. Aussies who cannot get ahead over there, Club executives from here looking to pad their wallets and mates of the bosses getting their snouts into the trough. It is bullshit but then again is it any different to the way they appoint these Commissioners when the government wants an Inquiry or Government department heads? John Allen for instance a career bureaucrat who no doubt had a glorious CV and bullshitted his way into it. He will pop up again. Purcell clearly the same. McKenzie is the disappointing one. People who knew him reckoned he was the real deal but the reality is he has been hopeless.

I remember that name Oliffe too. Can't think of the firm name That's exactly what I was - an Accountant moonlighting as a racing Club Secretary. Mind you I didn't do the raceday stuff too much(a few times but preferred not to) and by that stage the fields were done on the NZTR computer then later by the bureau. Whatever happened I found I was spending far too much time on racing and not enough on paying the mortgage via the business so chucked it in. I did however do a quick calculation when they were trying to shut us down and discovered that - in the late nineties - our admin(Secretarial) costs worked out at about $3500 per raceday compared to the CJC's $10,000 per raceday. Does that stat give any clues why these big Clubs are in trouble?

Quite right Pam. The minute they start referring to themselves as the 'CEO' alarm bells should ring. Twenty five years ago when Chittick, Fenwick and co were trying(unsuccessfully) to shut the Country Clubs down I was Secretary of Greymouth and Reefton and I always said 'if a Club boss calls himself the CEO that is a sure sign that that Club should be shut down'. CEO is a wanky name for the Manager

Now listen Huey we(NZTR) will not have things 'working for the industry' We strictly like things that cost a fortune but return f-all. Give yourself an uppercut for even suggesting it

Exactly! Those big Clubs that the Waikato faction want to prop up with the hard earned wealth of the regions. They have had billions of industry money spent on their assets and infrastructure, never looked after their property and pissed billions up against the wall on stakes they could not afford and in any case were hugely subsidised by the money earned by the small clubs. In that more good news post I put up last night have a look at the associated story(to the right on the link) about the foal crop this year. Those Waikato Breeders are looking down the barrel of a grim reality.

http://www.theoptimist.site/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork&fbclid=IwAR1zods8EhELuPgIHMAQ_f6jM4bn6GHGRwG44u5Wd6EBE43H8HPK85M6bMo the latest from B De Lore. Dargaville incidentally are not too happy TAB mistruths, NZTR threats and a witch-hunt – what a mess! http://www.theoptimist.site/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Dargaville-race-finish-use-for-blog.jpg by Brian de Lore Published July 4th 2021 The willingness of TAB NZ to pull the wool over the eyes of the racing public became evident once again on Friday when it released a media statement claiming the credit for $30 million of income derived, not from the TAB, but the 2020 legislation. The $30 million is made up $20 million from ‘racefields’ or BIUC (Betting Information User Charges) and $10 million from the repeal of the two percent betting levy – two of the 17 Messara Review recommendations written into the racing Act of 2020, and nothing whatsoever to do with the TAB. The TAB’s announcement that budgeted distributions to the racing codes for the upcoming 2021/22 season will be 23 percent higher than the $117 million budgeted distributions for the current season is laughable. $117 million budget was low-ball because of COVID19 The $117m set by the TAB for the current season was a low-ball budgeted figure set when there were significant uncertainties for the future of New Zealand’s wagering and gaming businesses because of COVID-19. So, this budget for the current season is $33 million below what is required to fund the codes to enable them to maintain stakes at the pre-COVID level and the anticipated TAB betting profits for the current season. All this smoke and mirrors carry-on was part of the Glenda Hughes-John Allen publicity machine under NZRB, and now with a name change to TAB NZ and under the Chief Transitional Officer Dean McKenzie, nothing has changed. The chasm between reality and the fanciful world of Dean McKenzie is wider than the Grand Canyon. The participants of racing have only ever wanted to know the truth handed out by someone who is genuinely working in their interests – not some overpaid, self-serving egotist of the type we have seen succeed each other for the past decade. In the media release, McKenzie said: “It’s great that we’re in a position to increase our returns…we’re now seeing the positive returns from the investment made by the Government and the industry in the TAB. We’re excited with where we are heading and incredibly proud that significant tangible benefits….” He’s excited, is there anyone in the real world excited? Under last year’s legislation, the devolvement of many areas of responsibility from NZRB/RITA/TAB NZ to the racing codes has not happened because the three codes have not come together, as the legislation provided for, to draw up a commercial agreement for the negotiation of distributions into the codes, etc.. Bringing in the Racing New Zealand board was new to the legislation, and invented explicitly to: “act as a consultive forum for the racing codes, and to represent the racing codes in relation to negotiations, interactions with other bodies under this Act, and other matters, with the agreement of the racing codes.” However, Racing New Zealand cannot function effectively because it hasn’t been appropriately appointed. It’s supposed to have one person from each of the codes and two independents. But the two independents haven’t been appointed, and the codes have been running it on a please themselves basis in the first year by taking along the three CEOs – Saundry, Woodham, and Hughes – none of those three are supposed to be involved and shouldn’t be involved. It’s all very well having newish, one-year-old legislation in place, but when you have an industry that deliberately ignores bits and pieces to suit itself, it’s no different to them claiming they’re doing the Messara Review when, in fact, it’s only cherry-picking the low hanging fruit and leaving out the vital clauses. Some of our leaders haven’t even read the legislation Having spoken to some of the decision-makers at various times, would it surprise that some haven’t even read the legislation, and if they have, have only skimmed over it and don’t get it. Not that we wouldn’t mind altering the 59 clauses that require Ministerial stamp of approval to do anything – knowing we have a Minister very short on industry knowledge (and appearances) and advised by non-specified interested parties. Racing remains in a mess. NZTR has been weak and has seen a deterioration in its relationship with racing people trying to stay active in the game. NZTR CEO Bernard Saundry refers to them as customers, but he isn’t running a corporation; in reality, he‘s their employee and should support them and develop initiatives to keep people active in racing and breeding. The foal crop numbers prove that’s not happening. Where’s the future plan? It’s July 4th, and as I write this we have no funding model for the clubs for the season starting August 1st. On Weigh In when last interviewed, Saundry suggested prizemoney increases for the middle and top races, and the bottom level had their turn three years ago. Why didn’t he just kick 90 percent of owners in the guts there and then? NZTR puts pressure on Dargaville for $800,000 to $1 million Arrogance on NZTR surfaces regularly. Consider the plight of the Dargaville Racing Club and the stand-off that now exists as NZTR tries to enforce Clause 25 of the Racing Act 2020, which specifically addresses the ‘Transfer of surplus venue by agreement.’ NZTR has its hand out for 40 percent of the value of the Dargaville Racecourse, which is valued at somewhere between $2 to $2.5 million. Dargaville is an isolated outpost over an hour by car east of Ruakaka. It had one annual community-driven race day but hasn’t had a date allocated for four years. The club resisted taking their race date to Ruakaka as the sponsors and local community said they would not support it. The Dargaville committee has accepted that the decline in racing would lead to track closures, but the pill they haven’t been able to swallow came when NZTR wrote to the committee to inform them no further racing would be staged at Dargaville with an offer to help sell the racecourse to put the money into other racecourses. The club has owned the land in an unencumbered title since it was donated to them by a local family named Findlayson about 100 years ago. Since then, volunteer committees have run the racing with all upkeep on the course done through working bees. Not one cent has ever come from NZTR to assist in its maintenance. Some committee members have served for 30 volunteer years, so anyone with a sense of fairness will understand the resistance. Shane Jones and Winston Peters at odds on the future of Dargaville The irony of the Dargaville stand-off is the NZ First left hand not knowing what the NZ First right is doing. Almost simultaneously, Winston Peters signed off on the legislation for the ‘land grab,’ as NZ First’s Provincial Growth Fund Manager, Shane Jones, allocated the Dargaville community $900,000 to develop the racecourse for the benefit of the community. Dargaville is on the point of gaining approval for a retirement village and housing development to benefit the locals, and rightly say the grant or the land value won’t be used to benefit NZTR, and nor it should. In a letter to Dargaville from Bernard Saundry, dated June 25th, in part he stated: “As a starting position, we would propose that 20% of the proceeds be allocated to support racing in the northern region, 20% be allocated to NZTR for stakes and other purposes, and the balance (60%) settled on a community trust as the Club has previously proposed. “I must also warn you that NZTR’s patience in relation to this matter is close to exhausted. We wish, as does the Minister, to see an industry-led negotiated resolution to the future of the Dargaville Racecourse. However, if the Club continues to fail to engage reasonably with NZTR by refusing to provide the information NZTR has requested, or to continues to avoid negotiating in good faith with NZTR, or otherwise act in a way which gives rise to concerns about the Club’s governance and management, we will be left with no choice but to consider other options to bring this matter to a close, such as exercising NZTR’s statutory power to dissolve the Club.” “…analogous to the collectivisation of farmland in 1920s Soviet Russia” – Dargaville committee The Dargaville Racing Club take this view: The ‘Transfer of assets and surplus venues’ clause should have no place in New Zealand. It is analogous to the collectivisation of farmland in 1920s Soviet Russia (‘Your land is not yours, it belongs to everybody, and we are going to collectivise it.’) “The clause is based on a false premise. Assets built up, particularly in rural communities, from donations of land, from volunteer labour, from grants and local fundraising, are community assets. Not Racing Industry assets, and no amount of Trumpian repetitive rhetoric will alter that fact. “Racing has been held at Dargaville for nearly one hundred years. Never has there ever been mention of the race track being an ‘industry asset.’ It wasn’t an industry asset when the toilets needed replacing; it wasn’t an industry asset when the track rail needed replacing, or the many other capital improvements. “The original land was donated circa 1925. In all that time no one can remember, and no record can be found of the New Zealand Racing Industry making any contributions to any capital development at Dargaville. “All built by working bees, donated labour, donated goods… “Very considerable input from the local community, first in developing the land, then gradually building up the asset we have now. Clubrooms, commentators tower, toilets, cafeteria, stables, jockey rooms, etc. All built by working bees, donated labour, donated goods, and capital grants from outside organisations such as ASB and Lotteries Board. “It is an impossible leap to go from that level of community input to claiming, retrospectively, that the Dargaville racecourse, is in fact, an industry asset. It just stretches credulity.” The Dargaville case rests, your honour. Let this be a warning to all clubs owning their own land, racing only once or twice a year – they’re coming to get you. And to finish, I should reveal that NZTR isn’t happy with me because I used a table in a blog published on June 18th, entitled, “Alarming foal crop projection for 2021 as NZTR administratively expands.” In that blog, I published a table put together by NZTR (the second table that appears) supposedly not meant for my eyes and apparently not meant for publication in The Optimist. I didn’t know that at the time, and it’s only a table I could have composed myself in two or three hours. But I soon found out the NZTR board, or at least some of them, or perhaps just the absent Chair, was furious and has demanded to know who the whistleblower is. Who supplied the table? I did receive two phone calls making friendly inquiries on behalf of the injured parties but didn’t reveal the source. Next, I am informed (third hand) that Bernard has sent out an email to over 50 on a database requesting any information as to who leaked the table. What are they going to do to that person if they find out? – disappointing that no reward was offered, and disappointing Bernard didn’t even phone to ask, if he needed to know that badly. NZTR must have more important things to do than conduct a witch-hunt to find out who leaked the table, especially when it was minor information that was circulated to some clubs by email without a confidentiality stamp. Well, I can tell you who leaked it, Bernard. It was Bill – a photo of Bill appears in my blog published June 18th. Sharing is caring!

I run a racing club and I am hardly in a 'privileged position' doing so. On the contrary from my perspective having to continue doing it is a pain in the a... but there is nobody to take over. What I am in though is a club which was rolling along, minding it's own business, keeping it's head above water, not costing the industry one cent and providing opportunities for stakeholders and product for the punters around NZ and, to a lesser extent, the world. Whats more we have a faithful band of regular attenders to whom we are extremely grateful for making our day thoroughly enjoyable. We had never taken one cent from the industry to maintain or build our infrastructure, we obtained our land ourselves well over a century ago and we spend no money on staff or consultants since it is all voluntary labour by our committee and locals. Our course is freehold and our debt is nil but the likes of Saundry and Co have advised us we owe our very existence to the NZ Racing industry and that the NZ Racing industry is entitled to control us and take our hard earned assets. A little ironic that neither of the two Aussie's Messara and Saundry would even know where Reefton was but they know all about the reasons it is there. If they were running Aussie racing they would be trying to shut Warnambool not celebrating it's membership roster or racing success.

Dislocation between the people who have control and the people at the grassroots(stakeholders as they are known). Nomates is right you need to go to a few of the deepest winter midweek days and talk to people there but equally you cannot ignore the big days either(Karaka Million, Kumara, NZ Cup day or whatever) But Nomates is equally right to be wary of NZTR because they will become your 'best friend' and want to feed you all manner of data that says all is well and that the solution to the problem is exactly the sort of thing they are espousing. And because they and their 'friends' are on the industry payroll they have an awful lot of time to spend making sure you see it their way. I do not want to push you my way either - at the end of the day you are (clearly) a highly intelligent person but they(NZTR) would love nothing more than to have a thesis delivered that they have had massive influence over and which supports the tripe they spout on how to fix the game. Just research the history of the NZTR principals before you give them too much credence - not too many successful enterprises built up by that lot Best of luck

'Dumbo Dummy' as you call him would contribute more to the NZ racing industry in five minutes than you, all the trackside staff and all the NZTR staff combined would have done in a lifetime you plonker. I have had horses with plenty of NZ's premier trainers(including Te Akau) and the vast majority of them would tell you absolutely nothing useful in regards your nags. Pitty is a bit of an exception but you have to chase him for anything useful(better to listen to his facebook posts on race morning to be fair). So often it is build them up a week out then slowly hose down expectations as raceday gets near. For all the lack of information if they are a show they invariably run at prohibitive odds which indicates that someone is fed info. Dummy Myers is a bloody good bloke, a bloody good supporter of West Coast and South Island racing and is welcome at Reefton anytime. I might add there is nothing wrong with Terri Rae either(apart for the fact she is not much of a Coast racing supporter). She is clearly a Trainer to whom strike rate is everything so you can always assume her horses will be a royal show. If you are that thick that you have to rely on Trackside and Trainer interviews you deserve what you get.

You really are an idiot 'symptom not the cause'? A symptom arises from and is an indicator of a problem. How can irrigation or lack thereof be a symptom? It is either a cause or it is not a cause - it is not a symptom 'The major flaw in Pitty's argument which you support is what happens when you don't irrigate?' Nobody said they shouldn't irrigate. What they(MRP) have said is they should not irrigate so close to raceday and in particular not with irrigation gear that is clearly not up to it(as evidenced by the fact that it creates lanes on the track - which have been apparent virtually every day they have raced there since Cup day). I might add it was irrigation gear that was not up to it that caused the Judy Lawson accident as well and do we need reminding who was in control of that track? 'You are blaming the irrigation and not accepting the fact that she wasn't up to it. Based on the form from the race she achieved the best possible position based on her ability.' Look at her prior form (and the times she had been running for her last 600m) and the race itself. In fact it is my view that that hard race at Riccarton that day has possibly soured her on racing altogether as evidenced by her Autumn form. She had been competitive with Avonello and Follow your Dreams prior but on the face of it was clearly inferior that day. I have never seen a horse so awash with sweat as she was afterwards (and I have seen plenty) and she had clearly tried her heart out. I suspect(and I hope to hell I am wrong) she has a limited future as a racing proposition after the effect of that effort and that pisses me off as well as we have spent a lot of money to get her to that stage. 'What was Pitty's excuse last start in a relatively weak Listed Race on her favoured Good 3 track where she ran 14 lengths last?' Don't you know how those margins work? She didn't run 14.1 lengths last she was 14.1 lengths from the winner you plonker. He didn't have any excuse but she was not persevered with from the 400m when she was clearly beaten and as I said the state of the Riccarton track has most likely ruined her as a racing proposition. She will probably have a spring prep but I am dubious about what lies ahead. Disappointing given how much she promised but hey that is racehorses. 'Are you setting her up for the AWT? If she does like a firm track why bring her into work late autumn going into the winter when we all know that the Riccarton Turf turns to a bog.' As I have said I doubt she has a future as a result of that hard run so I doubt she is being set for anything. But this 'why bring her into work in late Autumn?' question - do you think it takes a couple of weeks to bring a horse up to race fitness? She was been in work since late January with that specific race in mind based on the promise she showed in the spring. You clearly know absolutely zero about training horses which leads me to my next question - How many winners have you trained Son? Because I would say you have a bloody cheek questioning how Michael Pitman rates, trains and places his horses given he has trained almost 2000 in his time AND won a couple of Premierships(the only Southerner to do so in the modern era). You have told us often enough about your turf management degree and bagged the efforts of farmers and amateur trackmen all the way well let me point out that they had all the experts attend to the Riccarton track 20 or 25 years ago and look how well that has gone . Rarely in the interim has it been consistently up to scratch although this last 6-8 months has been an absolute disaster. But if there is a problem with that track then listening to 'experts' like you with a heap of letters after their name is as much the cause as anything. Riccarton reacted the same way every track has reacted to the attention of these 'experts' - turned into a frigging disaster. I am almost getting to the stage of hoping the AWT at Riccarton is a raging success if only to shut you up.

only you the defender of pissing water all over the course(well not actually all over - more like on certain strips) could discern that from the posting The horse wanted decent ground but ended up on the fence on wet ground while two fairly high class two year olds (Avonello and Follow your Dreams) were out in the middle of the track on the better stuff. Not that she would have beaten them anyway but it did allow her to be swamped by a couple of others also out wide in the last 50 metres. Cost her a stakes placing and her owner(not me - I only lease a share) potentially quite a bit in terms of residual value.