MaltedMilkshake Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Just reviewing CC results and noticed Jon Snow finished at the tail end of the field. What’s wrong with the Baker team....just a disaster the last couple of trips over the ditch.... Coincidently, Bjorn is also having a shocking run.... Also today, a lovely old ex Baker horse, Sakhee’s Soldier was running at Horsham....and his recent form has been abysmal....so sad to see these lovely animals just hawked around like meat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CrossCodes Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Their runnners at Rotorua all went awful as well. No doubt they are top trainers, but they also have a lot of shit in their stable that maybe they should get rid of and just concentrate on the better ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 I feel that's a bit harsh. If all trainers did that, there'd be no racing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltedMilkshake Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 Well I guess they’ve sold the better ones.... but they must know what has ability and what doesn’t .....after all, there are countless trials to work out what’s worth starting...and you don’t want to keep horses for the sake of training fees...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 They have Madison County in today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltedMilkshake Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 12 hours ago, mardigras said: I feel that's a bit harsh. If all trainers did that, there'd be no racing. Yep MD...thats correct. Many trainers keep horses in work for training fees...so how mad are things when that happens. Punters and Owners pay the price .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said: Yep MD...thats correct. Many trainers keep horses in work for training fees...so how mad are things when that happens. Punters and Owners pay the price .... It depends on whether the horses you refer to are incapable of winning further races. Or whether they are simply targeting the wrong races for the horses they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 2 hours ago, MaltedMilkshake said: Yep MD...thats correct. Many trainers keep horses in work for training fees...so how mad are things when that happens. Punters and Owners pay the price .... Only those who are charging a fee that has a reasonable profit-margin incorporated - i.e a sensible business model - could justify doing that financially. The majority are so screwed down that they would be far better off if they got rid of the lot and went on the dole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 21 minutes ago, Freda said: Only those who are charging a fee that has a reasonable profit-margin incorporated - i.e a sensible business model - could justify doing that financially. The majority are so screwed down that they would be far better off if they got rid of the lot and went on the dole. Absolutely!!!.how the hell a Kiwi trainer [mainstream, not elite!] can make a profit from their daily rate is unimaginable. That's what makes the salaries of the elite sickening, it's insulting, and they should hang their heads in shame. I guess that's why you don't see too many of those salary men oncourse, raceday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 22 hours ago, MaltedMilkshake said: Just reviewing CC results and noticed Jon Snow finished at the tail end of the field. What’s wrong with the Baker team....just a disaster the last couple of trips over the ditch.... Coincidently, Bjorn is also having a shocking run.... Also today, a lovely old ex Baker horse, Sakhee’s Soldier was running at Horsham....and his recent form has been abysmal....so sad to see these lovely animals just hawked around like meat. I don't know if there's any sort of implication in your post regarding Baker Forsman and Bjorn Baker horses but you need to be careful. They have consistently been the stable that produces winners over the last few seasons and only one of a few who consistently produce results in Oz. I'm find your bagging of them quite laughable. Results speak louder than rather ill-informed comment from a nobody. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I'm a bit in MM's camp Pete, Murray has been bringing horses over here to Oz for yonks, but this is his most disastrous trip yet, and even last year one of his mares looked terrible in the mounting yard and raced accordingly. Might be time for him to send Andrew over, he never gets a good trip away, it's always Muzza, and as for Bjorn, he has a gazillion horses in work at the Farm, and is back to chasing around country NSW......there are more nobodys than somebodys Pete, and thats a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I was at the races at Doomben a few weeks back when Bjorn got his last city winner, one city winner from his last 50 starters, he's trained three in total and had to go as far as Orange to get that, 4 hours from SYD.......so the wheels are spinning slowly at that stable, his old man had a good day at Te Rapa apparently, but as for his class horses, not so good nowadays. BTW, I reckon Andrew Forsman is a beaut, he speaks well and presents professionally, that was the best move Murray ever made...IMO of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Old saying in racing and life 'form is temporary class is permanent'. Suspect Baker(and Son) might be back in form soon enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Coming here winning Gr1 races might be a thing of the past for Kiwi trainers, unless they change the rules re the Euro horses, they are so much stronger than ours, we don't get much of a look in now. Winx maybe the exception, we will know SAT, but even then these raiders from the north are not their first tier, God help us if they sent down the likes of Cracksman and Enable......imagine....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 10 hours ago, Reefton said: Old saying in racing and life 'form is temporary class is permanent'. Suspect Baker(and Son) might be back in form soon enough I see they have 330 horses or so in work, thats according to very accurate NZ Racing records, last season they earned some 240K in percentages ...each. 10% of their prizemoney. Allowing for the horses in work, I would say they are one of the few training business's that make money from their daily fee. This year they are not looking so hot, only 25k each so far in the bank [thats if their agreement allows for a 50/50 split] so unless they win most of the KIWI classics over your carnivals and heaps of premier days it might be a very lean season. Bjorn is a different animal, Waller is his nemesis, sheer numbers is Bjorns archilles heel, plus the emergence of new trainers like Mark Newnham and Brad Widdup, so life might be very different shortly, ......you can't live on memories and photos on the wall. How long before Stephen Marsh bolts to Oz? or Tony Pike, that might free up the north so Murray stays top of the tree as Rogie is a spent cartridge. IMO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 33 minutes ago, Rowley Mile said: I see they have 330 horses or so in work, thats according to very accurate NZ Racing records, last season they earned some 240K in percentages ...each. 10% of their prizemoney. Allowing for the horses in work, I would say they are one of the few training business's that make money from their daily fee. This year they are not looking so hot, only 25k each so far in the bank [thats if their agreement allows for a 50/50 split] so unless they win most of the KIWI classics over your carnivals and heaps of premier days it might be a very lean season. Bjorn is a different animal, Waller is his nemesis, sheer numbers is Bjorns archilles heel, plus the emergence of new trainers like Mark Newnham and Brad Widdup, so life might be very different shortly, ......you can't live on memories and photos on the wall. How long before Stephen Marsh bolts to Oz? or Tony Pike, that might free up the north so Murray stays top of the tree as Rogie is a spent cartridge. IMO of course. From where I am sitting Marsh and Pike(like Sharrock) have had ample opportunity to relocate and have never done so. The latter two have obviously threatened but nothing has come of it. I suspect there is just as big a mountain to climb to make it in Aussie as there is here and despite the hype it is nowhere near as easy as it appears Gai Waterhouse is not setting the world alight over there right now and most of the Godolphin glory seems to be with Appleby and Bin Suroor rather than James Cummings but that doesn't make them poor trainers. Write those Bakers off at your peril I say. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Duly Noted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CrossCodes Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Agree in a lot of what you said. Many have threatened to move to Australia to train but don't go through with it. I really don't understand if you were in the position to do so why you wouldn't? The bush races are worth more than our races are, our $10,000 races aren't that much more than the picnic races in Australia! Maybe the Pikes, Sharrocks, Marsh's etc....just like being the best of a bad bunch over here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshu Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 I believe Bjorn Baker has about 110 in work at all times.I think no trainer has a worse record then former kiwi j sargent,would go totally broke backing his horses. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 33 minutes ago, CrossCodes said: Agree in a lot of what you said. Many have threatened to move to Australia to train but don't go through with it. I really don't understand if you were in the position to do so why you wouldn't? The bush races are worth more than our races are, our $10,000 races aren't that much more than the picnic races in Australia! Maybe the Pikes, Sharrocks, Marsh's etc....just like being the best of a bad bunch over here? There is a minor point here people are overlooking.... It doesn't matter where you are in the world it is bloody hard to win a race. And I very very much doubt it gets any easier when the stakes involved double or treble or quadruple. At the time the Messara report came out I was regularly talking to a bloke from a radio station who knew nothing about racing at all but wanted to find out about the proposal and its effect on the West Coast. On the day of the Harness racing scandal being uncovered he expressed shock at the bad goings on until I pointed out that very fact to him - it is desperately difficult to win a race and pulling one up one week with a thought of winning a race the next is fraught with risk. I doubt he appreciated the truth of that but anyone with experience in this game knows it is true. And the small scale of the offending(A Stuart charged with making $1000, $1100 and $1400 bear that out - racehorses are unreliable and I think the thoroughbreds would be even harder than the harness horses). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshu Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Totally agree,it is so hard now to win anywhere ,like the hayes and cummings and weirs go everywhere now days to win races,where as previously they hardly ever traveelled away from metro and provincial meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 36 minutes ago, theshu said: Totally agree,it is so hard now to win anywhere ,like the hayes and cummings and weirs go everywhere now days to win races,where as previously they hardly ever traveelled away from metro and provincial meetings. I think Shu the prizemoney is the carrot, 32K for a provincial maiden and 22K for the Bush Bush.......city maidens are 50K now, NZ is so far behind it's a damn joke when you look at the salaries at the top, how disgusting, I feel sick in the guts when I think what Jackson, Hughes and Saundry earn, what a bloody disgrace!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Another thing, but not limited to, they have that many horses they have to travel, a ceiling has to be initiated so they are not factories, what trainer can oversee 300 horses? that's a joke in itself....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Rowley Mile said: Another thing, but not limited to, they have that many horses they have to travel, a ceiling has to be initiated so they are not factories, what trainer can oversee 300 horses? that's a joke in itself....... Yes but it makes you appreciate what unbelievable systems they(Waller Weir and co) must have in place and what unbelievable man managers they must be. More than skills with horses - astoundingly business nous as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 You guys in Chch live in Bubble Land. Lets look at Weir first, google him, look at the needles, look at the fines and the scathing wrap, go back a bit, check it out...I dare you.....Waller, his right hand man, Liam Prior, sold a horse to HK and didn't disclose to the owners the true price, the owners, very suspicious, did their due diligence, and whoa and behold, clear deception and therefore Prior disq for 6 months.....what a blight on the stable, and you guessed it, Waller knew nada.....so, who gets rehired immediately his disq is up....yep, none other than one Liam Prior...and not as a shit picka upper....back into the same job he had before he was caught out...with Richard Callender who cried into the phone when he admitted to the owners what had transpired.....Who would re-hire this kind of person? C Waller that's who. And before you all get so righteous, what would you do if someone you trusted did that to your owners and discredited your business, would you re-hire him?......Waller urged the clients to sell, and the horse of course has gone on and won gazillions.....so Waller apologises to them.....what a look, and yet the sycophants line up to have a horse with him......I give up......but I'd love to hear the defence, cmon, throw it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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