Smaller Fields from now! Because of the Starting Gates!

[Chief Stipe]

A message from NZTR COO, Darin Balcombe.     No images? Click here UPDATE | Supplementary Starting Gates New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing would like to provide an update on the use of the supplementary Clip-on starting gates, following the false start that occurred prior to the running of the Group 1 TAB Classic at RACE Trentham on Saturday 9 December. Whilst initial evidence provided to the Racing Integrity Board on raceday, as well as post-raceday, to NZTR suggests that all operational processes were followed correctly, with the starting mechanism on the extra gates being tested before the false start occurred, this only creates further concern regarding the reliability of these Clip-on gates. Consequently, a decision has been made to suspend the use of the supplementary gates immediately nationwide. Until NZTR is comfortable that there is not a significant reliability concern, the supplementary gates will not be utilised during meetings for the foreseeable future. Further to this in conjunction with the relevant Clubs, NZTR will immediately look at purchasing a permanent set of starting gates at three strategic venues that do not have adequate permanent gates, being Te Rapa Racecourse, RACE Awapuni and RACE Trentham. NZTR will continue to work alongside the relevant Starting Gate Consortiums which manage all operational activity to ensure that proper maintenance and testing is being regularly carried out to all gates, with the governing body continuing to explore further options to ensure reliability.  Yours in racing,   Darin Balcombe Chief Operating Officer New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing

[nod]

Stupid knee jerk decision

If my pony does not make the field on Saturday then its off to OZ

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, nod said:

Stupid knee jerk decision

If my pony does not make the field on Saturday then its off to OZ

Yeah.  Why not work every hour and fix the problem.

[nod]

It is a simple problem- the result of plain lazyness -they obviously never checked before the aborted start-

Because when tried a couple of times they did not open

Re connected the plug and bingo ,it worked

Conclusion-these things have worked for many years and there is no need to run round like headless chickens just because someone does not check and connect a plug

[Doomed]

Where do you actually get three sets of starting gates all of a sudden? Are there businesses that just have then sitting in stock waiting for someone to come in off the street wanting to buy 2 or 3?

[Doomed]

I often notice horses low down in the race order who get into the field and do well, especially in the SI where there are always balloted and eliminated horses.

Faraglioni wouldn't have got a start on Saturday if this policy was in place, and Malt Time, no 14, would have only just snuck into the field.

Will make races like the Wgtn Cup a bit less exciting with small fields and lower dividends. Might even discourage those low down in the weights from paying up.

[Chief Stipe]

45 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I often notice horses low down in the race order who get into the field and do well, especially in the SI where there are always balloted and eliminated horses.

Faraglioni wouldn't have got a start on Saturday if this policy was in place, and Malt Time, no 14, would have only just snuck into the field.

Will make races like the Wgtn Cup a bit less exciting with small fields and lower dividends. Might even discourage those low down in the weights from paying up.

It's bollocks.  Imagine the NZ Oaks without a capacity field!  Although my horse probably would have won it if she had drawn 14 instead of 19!

[Reefton]

Bit of over reaction there guys.  Clearly they are going to buy 18 horse sets for these tracks and the reduction to 14 is temporary.  Riccarton has an 18 horse set so they will be available.  Add Dunedin to that list of tracks needing new sets as well.

Of course I could regurgitate the fact that the Coast had to buy their own gates and it appears NZTR are going to stump up for these but perhaps I have done that to death?

Whatever happens and who's ever fault Saturday was(I didn't see it) it was a bad look for NZ Racing in a G1 race.

 

[Chief Stipe]

4 hours ago, Reefton said:

Bit of over reaction there guys.  Clearly they are going to buy 18 horse sets for these tracks and the reduction to 14 is temporary. 

How "temporary"?  Do these things sit in stock on a shelf somewhere?

[Reefton]

26 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

How "temporary"?  Do these things sit in stock on a shelf somewhere?

Well when we wanted a set they were available immediately.  Mind you that was a long time ago.  What took the longest was the freight and, in our case, organising the money.  We ordered them in February and(I think) got them in November but that was because they held them for us for many months.

But having been actively involved in assembling them(bloody interesting) they came in two lots of six.  I imagine that they would just put another six section in the middle.  Who knows they may be able to put a four in the middle of the (14) sets they have now.  They connect with bloody big bolts.

Ours being twelve we can transport them on a truck(as do the Otago Southland ones) but an eighteen would be too much I would say.

Without knowing I would say Steriline(made the Ellerslie and Riccarton Gates) and Simtrack(from what I can see most of the rest of us) are probably constantly making up sets as once again I imagine the demand in Aussie is quite constant.

Its not NZTR's fault that this happened nor did anyone at the WRC intentionally do it.  Mistakes occur and you make moves to prevent them happening again.

There are far worse things happening in NZ racing than this(bad look as it may be)

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

Its not NZTR's fault that this happened nor did anyone at the WRC intentionally do it.  Mistakes occur and you make moves to prevent them happening again.

There are far worse things happening in NZ racing than this(bad look as it may be)

Are you going soft?  A Grp 1 race debacle.  Then the decision is to reduce potential field sizes by 20% until the new gates arrive.  Let alone accounting for the capital cost for tracks that have a limited number of race meetings.  

Yep just throw some more dosh around to solve a problem that should be easily fixed

I smell rats all over the place.

Tell you what- wouldn't it have been better not to have built the Awapuni synthetic that no local trainer wanted and invested in gates that work and are easily transported?

[Bill]

7 hours ago, Reefton said:

Bit of over reaction there guys.  Clearly they are going to buy 18 horse sets for these tracks and the reduction to 14 is temporary.  Riccarton has an 18 horse set so they will be available.  Add Dunedin to that list of tracks needing new sets as well.

Of course I could regurgitate the fact that the Coast had to buy their own gates and it appears NZTR are going to stump up for these but perhaps I have done that to death?

Whatever happens and who's ever fault Saturday was(I didn't see it) it was a bad look for NZ Racing in a G1 race.

 

Starting gates in NZ

Whangarei - SimTrack - 14

Avondale - SimTrack - 16 (let’s hope they sell there’s to someone else)

Ellerslie - Steriline - 18

Te Rapa - Steriline - 14 + the clip on set of 4 (clip on may or may not belong to Northern Raceday Services)

Northern Raceday Services - Steriline - 14 + clip on set with 4 barriers (mobile set)

Hawkes Bay - SimTrack - 16

CD Consortium - SimTrack - 14 + the clip on set with 4 barriers. (Mobile set)

Riccarton - Steriline - one 18 set & one 14 set.

Ashburton - SimTrack - 14

Timaru/Otago/Southland - SimTrack - 14 (mobile set)

Wingatui - SimTrack - 14 + clip on set of 6 barriers

Invercargill - SimTrack - 14
 

SimTrack https://simtrack.com.au/starting-gates/

Steriline https://www.sterilineracing.com/our-products/starting-gates/

remember we got rid of all the old caddy gates individual clubs had because they were not getting the maintenance they required, so clubs used shared gates together that were transportable. Looks like we are somewhat going back to clubs having their own stalls. Obviously they will need sheds to be stored in as well, big sheds as they are long and high.

 

 

 

 

 

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

Starting gates in NZ

Whangarei - SimTrack - 14

Avondale - SimTrack - 16 (let’s hope they sell there’s to someone else)

Ellerslie - Steriline - 18

Te Rapa - Steriline - 14 + the clip on set of 4 (clip on may or may not belong to Northern Raceday Services)

Northern Raceday Services - Steriline - 14 + clip on set with 4 barriers (mobile set)

Hawkes Bay - SimTrack - 16

CD Consortium - SimTrack - 14 + the clip on set with 4 barriers. (Mobile set)

Riccarton - Steriline - one 18 set & one 14 set.

Ashburton - SimTrack - 14

Timaru/Otago/Southland - SimTrack - 14 (mobile set)

Wingatui - SimTrack - 14 + clip on set of 6 barriers

Invercargill - SimTrack - 14
 

SimTrack https://simtrack.com.au/starting-gates/

Steriline https://www.sterilineracing.com/our-products/starting-gates/

remember we got rid of all the old caddy gates individual clubs had because they were not getting the maintenance they required, so clubs used shared gates together that were transportable. Looks like we are somewhat going back to clubs having their own stalls. Obviously they will need sheds to be stored in as well, big sheds as they are long and high.

 

 

 

 

 

ya forgot the best racing province in NZ!

[Reefton]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Are you going soft?  A Grp 1 race debacle.  Then the decision is to reduce potential field sizes by 20% until the new gates arrive.  Let alone accounting for the capital cost for tracks that have a limited number of race meetings.  

Yep just throw some more dosh around to solve a problem that should be easily fixed

I smell rats all over the place.

Tell you what- wouldn't it have been better not to have built the Awapuni synthetic that no local trainer wanted and invested in gates that work and are easily transported?

I'm past caring about the industry but tell me what are the rats you smell?

From where I sit they have had an incident of starting gate malfunction where there was a supplementary set in use.  Unfortunately during a group one race.  NZTR have put in place temporary measures to try to prevent a recurrence until they can resolve the net for supplementary sets.  I don't think I can smell too many rats in that

Go back a few years when a multiple group one winner was always allowed to be last into the gates in Group one's or when a certain prominent stable used to use barrier blankets to ensure their horses entered the gates last.  Now there I smell something of a rat. 

 

 

[Bill]

18 minutes ago, Reefton said:

ya forgot the best racing province in NZ!

My apologies, I did, yes you in the coast have a SimTrack set. So there are quite a few sets in the country. Te Rapa with a bank of 14, will they sell them to another venue that can only run 14 horse only fields?

[Reefton]

32 minutes ago, Bill said:

My apologies, I did, yes you in the coast have a SimTrack set. So there are quite a few sets in the country. Te Rapa with a bank of 14, will they sell them to another venue that can only run 14 horse only fields?

They would have a cheek expecting to sell them given NZTR probably paid for them.  Insofar as I know we are the only people in NZ who brought our own.

Given the way they appeared to go together it may be possible to just add an extra three or four in the middle(if they are like the Simtrack sets)

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

I'm past caring about the industry but tell me what are the rats you smell?

Instead of fixing the issue or finding out what the real problem was they are going to limit races to 14 starters and purchase brand new starting gates to be permanently based at each of the major courses.

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

NZTR have put in place temporary measures to try to prevent a recurrence until they can resolve the net for supplementary sets.

Which they have only resolved by limiting field sizes until NEW gates can be built and delivered.  How many times have the extensions failed to open?  

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

Go back a few years when a multiple group one winner was always allowed to be last into the gates in Group one's or when a certain prominent stable used to use barrier blankets to ensure their horses entered the gates last.  Now there I smell something of a rat. 

Are you talking about WINX?

[Reefton]

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Instead of fixing the issue or finding out what the real problem was they are going to limit races to 14 starters and purchase brand new starting gates to be permanently based at each of the major courses.

Which they have only resolved by limiting field sizes until NEW gates can be built and delivered.  How many times have the extensions failed to open?  

Are you talking about WINX?

fixing the issue or finding out what the real problems is?????????????

Clearly the real problem is unreliable supplementary gate sets and to fix the issue they are obtaining bigger sets of gates.  Can't see a conspiracy or even a mystery there.  NZTR have taken immediate and  definitive action

How many times have the extensions failed to open?  

No idea but it is not unknown for a gate in the main sets not to open or to open slowly.  I think the supplementary sets might have stayed closed at Riverton a few years ago(could be wrong)

Are you talking about WINX?

Kawi.  They could have loaded Winx two hours before and she would still have thumped them

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Reefton said:

Clearly the real problem is unreliable supplementary gate sets and to fix the issue they are obtaining bigger sets of gates.  Can't see a conspiracy or even a mystery there.  NZTR have taken immediate and  definitive action

Right so when you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a machine and it doesn't work.  You don't get the supplier to make it fit for purpose instead you go and buy a bigger machine and more of them.  As an accountant I thought you'd see red at that!

What's more it is over investing in capital making more reasons to get a return which means more race meetings diverted.

 

[curious]

The way I read it, the first thing they are going to do is ensure reliability of the clipons so they can continue to be re-used. It seems the gates were tested and working at the start before loading and again after the false start when plugged back in. That suggests the power connection was loosened during the loading process. It seems making sure somehow that the connection is secure and protected adequately might solve the problem.

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, curious said:

The way I read it, the first thing they are going to do is ensure reliability of the clipons so they can continue to be re-used. It seems the gates were tested and working at the start before loading and again after the false start when plugged back in. That suggests the power connection was loosened during the loading process. It seems making sure somehow that the connection is secure and protected adequately might solve the problem.

A couple of these perhaps?

[curious]

Might be all that's required.

[Reefton]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Right so when you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a machine and it doesn't work.  You don't get the supplier to make it fit for purpose instead you go and buy a bigger machine and more of them.  As an accountant I thought you'd see red at that!

What's more it is over investing in capital making more reasons to get a return which means more race meetings diverted.

 

The things aren't brand new.  If they didn't work straight off the shelf it would be different.  Maybe they are not as well looked after as, say, ours are(we have a shed at Reefton that they fit nicely into for 11.5 months of the year.  They will come out New Year's day or the day after, be checked for flat batteries or other issues and be back in there ten days later)

Curious is clearly in the know on what happened and his explanation seems totally plausible

Edited December 13, 2023 by Reefton

[Reefton]

5 hours ago, curious said:

Might be all that's required.

I know ours are very sensitive about battery power(don't let it get low!) and they are only a small set so that might also be contributing if the connection is at all compromised

[Chief Stipe]

6 hours ago, Reefton said:

The things aren't brand new.  If they didn't work straight off the shelf it would be different.  Maybe they are not as well looked after as, say, ours are(we have a shed at Reefton that they fit nicely into for 11.5 months of the year.  They will come out New Year's day or the day after, be checked for flat batteries or other issues and be back in there ten days later)

Used once a year?  Geez wouldn't have to do an oil change.