Chief Stipe Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Well the jungle drums are beating. A positive returned from Pukeohe News Day meeting. My money is on it being a mistake or a therapeutic applied inside withholding period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Well the jungle drums are beating. A positive returned from Pukeohe News Day meeting. My money is on it being a mistake or a therapeutic applied inside withholding period. Or a trough or some poppies perhaps , could happen to anyone of course, especially if it's a whale! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 7 minutes ago, Huey said: Or a trough or some poppies perhaps , could happen to anyone of course, especially if it's a whale! Yes I forgot to mention environmental contamination. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assange Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 On 1/21/2024 at 7:25 PM, Chief Stipe said: Well the jungle drums are beating. A positive returned from Pukeohe News Day meeting. My money is on it being a mistake or a therapeutic applied inside withholding period. So why not release this info when the horse in question is starting Saturday? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 1 minute ago, Assange said: So why not release this info when the horse in question is starting Saturday? Is it? I haven't seen anything about what horse it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 37 minutes ago, Assange said: So why not release this info when the horse in question is starting Saturday? Don't think it has anything to do with it starting again. It will likely lose the race in question if it were the winner but it's quite entitled to start again thereafter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 So is everyone scared to name the mystery...horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 I'm not sure anyone knows for sure. Regardless is it really that big of a deal? There's always at least one in NZ a year and invariably it's the result of a mistake in administration or environmental contamination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 If the jungle drums beating in my neck of the woods are correct and they've got the rumored trainer right - there'll be a defence advanced and no matter the likely plausibility - I predict it will be swallowed greedily and without question by the powers that be. With narry a burp or slightest hint of indigestion to follow. Nothing to see here folks (but best not try your luck some of you little no-names battlers training a couple from your back paddock - I don't fancy your chances). Happy new year one and all - may your horses be swift & the luck of the Irish be with you. Kind regards, Jess 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I'm not sure anyone knows for sure. Regardless is it really that big of a deal? There's always at least one in NZ a year and invariably it's the result of a mistake in administration or environmental contamination. Oh...so it is from your favourite stable...then.😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 12 hours ago, curious said: Don't think it has anything to do with it starting again. It will likely lose the race in question if it were the winner but it's quite entitled to start again thereafter. Absolutely it is , but the stable in question should cop a hefty ban ... time for all the BS excuses to be laughed out of town. Especially the one I've heard for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, holy ravioli said: Oh...so it is from your favourite stable...then.😁 But that's in Australia! Aren't the rumours based on a NZ stable? 23 minutes ago, Huey said: Absolutely it is , but the stable in question should cop a hefty ban ... time for all the BS excuses to be laughed out of town. Especially the one I've heard for this one. All this speculation, innuendo, inference, supposition and mostly baseless crap could be stopped by the RIB having a policy of releasing the horse name, stable and substance that a positive has been returned for. They do it in Australia. Then all parties concerned sing off the same song sheet - "no comment - inquiries are ongoing". Instead we have all this speculation pointing everywhere including at innocent parties and guessing who leaked the information. As for what the penalty should be any suggestions of big bans is ludicrous when you have no idea of any of the detail. As I said it will be a mistake in administration or environmental contamination. I posted an article from the USA earlier in the week on that subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 9 hours ago, jess said: there'll be a defence advanced and no matter the likely plausibility So are you saying there is no defence? 9 hours ago, jess said: Nothing to see here folks (but best not try your luck some of you little no-names battlers training a couple from your back paddock - I don't fancy your chances). We've been through comparing penalty outcomes before and for these types of charges it is a myth that there is inconsistency in Thoroughbred Racing. Greyhounds appear to be another story though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assange Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: But that's in Australia! Aren't the rumours based on a NZ stable? All this speculation, innuendo, inference, supposition and mostly baseless crap could be stopped by the RIB having a policy of releasing the horse name, stable and substance that a positive has been returned for. They do it in Australia. Then all parties concerned sing off the same song sheet - "no comment - inquiries are ongoing". Instead we have all this speculation pointing everywhere including at innocent parties and guessing who leaked the information. As for what the penalty should be any suggestions of big bans is ludicrous when you have no idea of any of the detail. As I said it will be a mistake in administration or environmental contamination. I posted an article from the USA earlier in the week on that subject. Agree entirely. Unless the RIB is a bit more upfront, then others are going to be looked at sideways. A positive is a positive. End of. No favourites. No delays. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: As I said it will be a mistake in administration or environmental contamination. I posted an article from the USA earlier in the week on that subject. If that helps you sleep at night you stick with that story, happens to often in the same places for me to buy that BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 3 hours ago, Huey said: If that helps you sleep at night you stick with that story, happens to often in the same places for me to buy that BS. How many times is too often? Te Akau for example have had two positives in how many decades? One environmental contamination and the other a staff administration error. Lance O'Sullivan - how many? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 13 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: So are you saying there is no defence? We've been through comparing penalty outcomes before and for these types of charges it is a myth that there is inconsistency in Thoroughbred Racing. Greyhounds appear to be another story though. Ha! I haven't been round these parts for a fair while ... dropped by last night ....didn't take long for me to attract opprobrium from the Chief Stipe ... or should I say "Grand Master" ... there's a lot of re-branding in this day n age and BOAY no exception, it seems. You're dreaming Jonesy. It's one of the issues NZ racing has. Top heavy with big players - in the breeding - the racing - the buying/syndicating - and the training. If you think it's a level playing field and people are treated equally - I'm surprised at your naivety. I think as far as some "leaders" are concerned - some players are "too big to fail". Whereas the bottom feeders are less well positioned to fight their corner, easier pickings & essentially expendable. If this is not the world you live in - then enjoy your utopia. And make sure you close your eyes before you take off the rose tinted glasses each night before bed. Sir. Grand Master. Chief. Kind regards Jess 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 6 hours ago, jess said: You're dreaming Jonesy. It's one of the issues NZ racing has. Top heavy with big players - in the breeding - the racing - the buying/syndicating - and the training. If you think it's a level playing field and people are treated equally - I'm surprised at your naivety. So what do you propose? Have a level playing field by cutting down the tall poppies? That would be the path to an empty paddock. Certainly one that couldn't compete in Australia. You infer that some people, presumably licensees, are treated differently or unfairly because the are not "big players". Where is your proof? Asking for you to provide some facts to justify your view is not opprobrium but asking you to be fair. You demand it but don't want to do it. 6 hours ago, jess said: I think as far as some "leaders" are concerned - some players are "too big to fail". What is "too big"? Te Akau? Lance O'Sullivan? Robbie Patterson? Pitman? Kenny Rae? All different size stables but all could be called successful. Recently I have had the experience of seeing inside a couple of big stables and talked to a number of successful trainers. I knew that they take things to a different level but even I was surprised to what level they go to to ensure success. The systems and science behind what they do is impressive and legal. It needs to be if you are going to get that extra 1 to 2% that makes your horse competitive at the elite level. Your everyday battler could do the same or similar things but on average they don't try learn or improve. It's the same in any sport or business for that matter. Bur if you have any facts to support your contention that the deck is loaded in favour of some over others then please do provide some evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 7 hours ago, jess said: Ha! I haven't been round these parts for a fair while ... dropped by last night ....didn't take long for me to attract opprobrium from the Chief Stipe ... or should I say "Grand Master" ... there's a lot of re-branding in this day n age and BOAY no exception, it seems. You're dreaming Jonesy. It's one of the issues NZ racing has. Top heavy with big players - in the breeding - the racing - the buying/syndicating - and the training. If you think it's a level playing field and people are treated equally - I'm surprised at your naivety. I think as far as some "leaders" are concerned - some players are "too big to fail". Whereas the bottom feeders are less well positioned to fight their corner, easier pickings & essentially expendable. If this is not the world you live in - then enjoy your utopia. And make sure you close your eyes before you take off the rose tinted glasses each night before bed. Sir. Grand Master. Chief. Kind regards Jess Spot on, Jess. As for the Chief demanding evidence - fair call, from where he sits. However, most reasonable people are NOT going to spout off and denigrate decent folk who have been caught up in some of this, however inadvertently. As for the assertion that some trainers need to 'up their game' and apply some of the professionalism and attention that the bigger players purport to do - also, a fair call. But the costs of so doing are enormous and well beyond most smaller players. Only the larger syndicates with horses aiming at top races can justify such costs. If a horse has to be prepared for an $18,500 - soon to be $17,000 - race, while regularly incurring vet bills into the thousands on the way, then I suggest that most of those owners would simply go and buy a better fishing rod. The wording of a document explaining the aim of some of the new licensing protocols made it plain that the top trainers would not need to compete with the muck at the bottom. I hope the intent of those documents was not as offensive as it appeared at first reading. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 50 minutes ago, Freda said: But the costs of so doing are enormous and well beyond most smaller players. Only the larger syndicates with horses aiming at top races can justify such costs. If a horse has to be prepared for an $18,500 - soon to be $17,000 - race, while regularly incurring vet bills into the thousands on the way, then I suggest that most of those owners would simply go and buy a better fishing rod. The big stables don't bother with such horses either and flick them off. Who in their right mind would persevere with an average unsound gelding? There is also a lot the bigger stables do that don't require expensive vet bills. A lot of it is to prevent such bills. @jess infers there is some special advantage for some and that the playing field is uneven. The big stables got there through hard work. Where is the evidence that they were or are treated differently? I realise some people would prefer to see 6 races of average horses trained by battlers tonight instead of 6 quality fields of well bred horses trained to the minute on a fantastic new track ridden by the best jockeys on offer in Australasia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: The big stables don't bother with such horses either and flick them off. Who in their right mind would persevere with an average unsound gelding? There is also a lot the bigger stables do that don't require expensive vet bills. A lot of it is to prevent such bills. @jess infers there is some special advantage for some and that the playing field is uneven. The big stables got there through hard work. Where is the evidence that they were or are treated differently? I realise some people would prefer to see 6 races of average horses trained by battlers tonight instead of 6 quality fields of well bred horses trained to the minute on a fantastic new track ridden by the best jockeys on offer in Australasia. Don't be silly. The Ellerslie races will be terrific. And Auckland should be applauded for their initiative wrt the Strathayr. But 'the big stables don't bother....' - that's bollocks. The Marsh and Te Akau barns at Riccarton comprise mainly just those sort of horses, that won't 'cut the mustard' against the top horses. And who said anything about unsound horses? No one wants or needs those, although there are some, which with a bit of 'nursing' can still do their bit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 31 minutes ago, Freda said: Don't be silly. The Ellerslie races will be terrific. And Auckland should be applauded for their initiative wrt the Strathayr. But 'the big stables don't bother....' - that's bollocks. The Marsh and Te Akau barns at Riccarton comprise mainly just those sort of horses, that won't 'cut the mustard' against the top horses. And who said anything about unsound horses? No one wants or needs those, although there are some, which with a bit of 'nursing' can still do their bit. Well there you go we agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 I don't care to engage in an argument or a slanging match with you Chief. We're each entitled to our opinions (although I imagine you're more entitled than many of the rest of us). And I'm mindful of where this forum's predecessor went wrong in the first place. An egotistical and objectionable "chief" who wielded his power over the forum by shouting down every opinion that didn't concur with his own, abusing & belittling the poster and playing favorites. But if you want an example - you could always start with a judiciary who "bought" a defence/mitigation that their derby horse was living on a dairy farm with the cows right before the big race thus inadvertently drinking cobalt-supplemented water. I wonder with your recent tours of top establishments - did you have to venture out in the range rover to visit the Friesians and Jersey cows in order to view the elite runners in the late stages of their preps for the upcoming Group 1 assignments .... 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Note for Freda - thank you for the warmth of your welcome upon my return. I'm always looking out for your runners when I'm following fields or results. And I wish you well. This forum's value relies largely on posts from the likes of you. Intelligent - reasoned - fair-minded - and credible on account of your experience and expertise. Oh and a sense of humor as well. Not trying to talk you up here - just the way I see it. I'm sure we all have posters where we spot their moniker and decide that post will be worth a read - or conversely - that post will just be ill-informed vitriol I might not bother with. Great to see you still here gracing the forum! J, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Thanks Jess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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