TAB For Ever Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Little comment to date , maybe this suggests things went pretty well . I certainly enjoyed the day at the Races and I sat among many folk who also had a great day out in comfortable surroundings , some at Ellerslie for pretty much the first time being 'new' owners or there as friends of Owners. Of course many there had experienced a very slow trip up from the South with the motorway holdups....not ideal , amazing so many keen to get to Ellerslie. Ellerslie an outstanding venue but the quicker we can get a new track built in the Waikato the better......get racings money out of Avondale and start building NOW ! Any excess ,get a decent facility with a good track in the CD too. Foxton seems to have the best surface so get that cracking too ! Racing at Ellerslie was good....the switched on jockeys got the jump on the others , riding for position early in race and pretty much dictating pace with last 600's under 34 secs in main. El Vencedor stole the Group 1 in a slow 2 min 6 sec but Legarto clipping heels and stumbling may have upset her rhythm. Didn't discount her $500 k bonus for consistency in few Group 1's , surely a boost to attract potential owners. The final race was well won by a very good horse in Major Major...this horse changed hands for $1......ONE dollar ! A 6yr old Pins gelding with a troubled history having his 10th start and 3rd win. Many new owners and from small stable. Small stables had a good day ,tho Cambridge stables to fore. Punters brought home some good Bets , but two winners paid over $20 bucks. Something for everyone . The place looked a picture ,Sponsors well catered for in what was a nice comfortable crowd which I estimated to be over 6,000 TBC. Great to have the 3 x Majestic clerk of courses on white horses ...one of them [ Ross] I believe started job 1965 Cup day ! Social Racing syndicate had 2 x horses in for a First and 3rd. Velocious capped a brilliant juvenile season and not finished yet ! The Club contributed over $400 k toward the big stakes on offer ,tho some of that Nom fees. Overall an excellent days racing ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Certainly is a front runners bias 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 49 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Certainly is a front runners bias I disagree. The biggest issue is the fact most races are slow early tempo and sprint home. That has very little to do with the track That said the track surface isn't holding up as well as it should and there are definitely good and bad lanes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: Ellerslie an outstanding venue but the quicker we can get a new track built in the Waikato the better......get racings money out of Avondale and start building NOW ! I hope the others learn from the mistakes Ellerslie has made with their $50m effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 8 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: Racing at Ellerslie was good....the switched on jockeys got the jump on the others , riding for position early in race and pretty much dictating pace with last 600's under 34 secs in main. I'm not sure what races you were watching but it wasn't Ellerslie. Many races dictated by slow early tempos and sprint home. I suspect the Jockey's were psyched out by the rail being out 5m from the 1000m resulting in a poorly cambered 600m+ sweeping bend with variable surface conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 8 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: and pretty much dictating pace with last 600's under 34 secs in main. Only 2 of the winners ran home in under 34 seconds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 8 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: Velocious capped a brilliant juvenile season and not finished yet ! Running 1:12 for a 1200m Grp1. What's that tell you about the track and or tempo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I hope the others learn from the mistakes Ellerslie has made with their $50m effort. Any thing worth doing is worth doing poorly at first ! New ideas and changes in technique and attitude come come hard to many . That course will go from strength to strength. In the meantime ,a few on here want to be be very negative re new track. What they achieved ,in the time given and the weather , at that location was outstanding. Get the next 100 million $ into the purpose built Waikato greenfields development and racing will be flying. Or do you have a better idea ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Just now, TAB For Ever said: Any thing worth doing is worth doing poorly at first ! Ever heard of do it once do it well? Saves time and money in the long run. 1 minute ago, TAB For Ever said: New ideas and changes in technique and attitude come come hard to many . That course will go from strength to strength. Why change a tried and true method? I can's see how 300mm of sand is going to improve much. Grass grows in clumps on sand dunes and a racecourse isn't a links golf course. 2 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: In the meantime ,a few on here want to be be very negative re new track. What they achieved ,in the time given and the weather , at that location was outstanding. Really? They've just laid what is an experimental track on the same contours of the old track with all its deficiencies!! 3 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Get the next 100 million $ into the purpose built Waikato greenfields development and racing will be flying. Where from? 4 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Or do you have a better idea ? Stop moth ballling decent tracks and when you do build a new track makes sure you fix the deficiencies of the previous one and use a tried and true method NOT reinvent the wheel to save $4m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 12 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Ever heard of do it once do it well? Saves time and money in the long run. Why change a tried and true method? I can's see how 300mm of sand is going to improve much. Grass grows in clumps on sand dunes and a racecourse isn't a links golf course. Really? They've just laid what is an experimental track on the same contours of the old track with all its deficiencies!! Where from? Stop moth ballling decent tracks and when you do build a new track makes sure you fix the deficiencies of the previous one and use a tried and true method NOT reinvent the wheel to save $4m. Good idea to keep the tracks contours.....iconic ,unique special and it gonna be great.....but keep banging on about it and please keep putting up your handful of sand picture up ! That was great ! What decent tracks have been moth-balled ? Plleeeeeze not Avondale ! Messara report noted there was not one decent track surface in NZ......... No savings of $4 mill ...$13m over budget. . Build a bridge ....Ellerslie gonna be great ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Only 2 of the winners ran home in under 34 seconds. I used to have a WATCH like that ! I had 4 under 34 secs.......but well spotted . The times on the website are also different to what the judge announced on course cos I wrote them down He said Velocious ran 33.61 not 34.07 He said El Vencedor ran 33.65 not 34.16 Provence time went the other way. But well spotted Chief.....you more than a grumpy old banger-on ! But then , since when have times been of such consequence ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 31 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Good idea to keep the tracks contours.....iconic ,unique special and it gonna be great Iconic my arse. Once the hill was gone all sense of iconism went with it. What do the contours and shape of the track do for the horses and punting? That's the key metric to measure against not some long lost nostalgia! 31 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Build a bridge ....Ellerslie gonna be great ! Who made the descision to experiment with 300mm of sand rather than go with the tried and true Strathayr forumla? 31 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Messara report noted there was not one decent track surface in NZ......... He was wrong. But in saying that on what page does he say that? I've attached the report for your convenience. Regardless $50 spent at Ellerslie and still not a decent track. 31 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: What decent tracks have been moth-balled ? Plleeeeeze not Avondale ! Foxton is a decent track. 31 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Build a bridge ....Ellerslie gonna be great ! So you admit after three meetings it isn't great. When can we expect the turn around? Given they don't appear to have fixed the fundational structural issues with the track in order to maintain iconism how is it ever going to be great? Review-of-the-NZ-Racing-Industry-Report.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 10 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: I used to have a WATCH like that ! I had 4 under 34 secs.......but well spotted . I didn't use a watch I looked at the official sectionals which are available to all. But as with most of what you write it is laced with hyperbole and fluff rather than factual substance. 11 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: The times on the website are also different to what the judge announced on course cos I wrote them down He said Velocious ran 33.61 not 34.07 He said El Vencedor ran 33.65 not 34.16 I don't know what planet the Judge was on or whether you were pissed by race 5 but the official sectionals are not those. Maybe the Judge doesn't have access to the app that gives the accurate measurements or he doesn't know how to use it. 13 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: But well spotted Chief.....you more than a grumpy old banger-on ! But then , since when have times been of such consequence ? I only get grumpy with the fluff merchants such as yourself that make things up and belt out the same old marketing propaganda hype while avoiding the real issues. As for times - correct me if I'm wrong but in one of your marketing pieces on this thread you mentioned them first. But times are important and until the majority of our Jockeys can assess pace and tempo then we are going to sit and sprint races. Mind you the contour and shape of Ellerslie is conducive to that! I guess you were at the ENTAIN tables at The Winning Post bar on Saturday? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Foxton is a decent track. Yes, but Messara didn't bother to visit it or assess it for racing purposes did he? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 33 minutes ago, curious said: Yes, but Messara didn't bother to visit it or assess it for racing purposes did he? So @TAB For Ever how did Mesara come to the conclusions he did? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 He was advised by those whom he thought would know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: So @TAB For Ever how did Mesara come to the conclusions he did? 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Iconic my arse. Once the hill was gone all sense of iconism went with it. What do the contours and shape of the track do for the horses and punting? That's the key metric to measure against not some long lost nostalgia! Who made the descision to experiment with 300mm of sand rather than go with the tried and true Strathayr forumla? He was wrong. But in saying that on what page does he say that? I've attached the report for your convenience. Regardless $50 spent at Ellerslie and still not a decent track. Foxton is a decent track. So you admit after three meetings it isn't great. When can we expect the turn around? Given they don't appear to have fixed the fundational structural issues with the track in order to maintain iconism how is it ever going to be great? Review-of-the-NZ-Racing-Industry-Report.pdf 3.42 MB · 1 download Page 51.... Messara states......Not ONE track has a high quality racing surface Page 51 ..... But reading that in isolation does not give the overall vibe of the Report. I would guess most dismissed many parts of the report , and once they found a minor error ,or found out he didn't visit every single venue they thought that enough to dismiss most of the proven facts. Like , No club in NZ makes money.....this skim reading by fluff merchants with a biased mind influences the negaholics ! I dresay he made the odd error with some of the sizzle , but the sausage was on the mark ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: So @TAB For Ever how did Mesara come to the conclusions he did? Chief ,I surprised you asking me questions now ,generally you stick it to me. Cost Accountant , Christ College Old Boy , Fluff merchant. You hurt my feelings. To be honest I have driven past Foxton course a lot and looked at it from fence....so can't talk from direct experience. Just spent 10 minutes looking into it and notice it hasn't been raced on for some years .I looked at a few Annual reports and see it run mainly by volunteers , uses trials as main income earner these days etc etc , and had a good number of members ,trainer etc working some 100 horses. Hard to find a mention of it with Messara other than it Opaki and Levin recommended as training only. Foxton on lease land I believe. Randomly chose year 2011 to delve further....I remember it had some dodgy Fires...like 5 in 2 x weeks. That season it had 4 x meetings so its reputation probably at level reflected in Betting numbers. The August meeting[ Heavy10], September [Soft 9] October [H10] and June 2012 [Heavy 10 @ Waverly]. You need to fill in the gaps ! I can't quite see how it mentioned with the way forward in NZ racing. But if it for real , a save Foxton group should get together and put a case for it ......many CD tracks seem dodgy. I'll watch with interest but not tonight as after Cricket today I off to therapy followed by an AA meeting. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 So @TAB For Ever were you on course at Ellerslie on Saturday? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 3 hours ago, curious said: Yes, but Messara didn't bother to visit it or assess it for racing purposes did he? Because Messara did not write the report!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: To be honest I have driven past Foxton course a lot and looked at it from fence....so can't talk from direct experience. Just spent 10 minutes looking into it You need to fill in the gaps ! ....many CD tracks seem dodgy. You have a lot to say for someone who admits they know nothing. 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: But reading that in isolation does not give the overall vibe of the Report. Oh OK we have to read "between the lines"! Is there anything else you make up? How was The Winning Post? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Aah The Vibe! TAB is actually Dennis Denuto. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Maybe TAB For Ever needs to be stuffed and taken straight to the pool room. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 On 3/11/2024 at 7:47 PM, Special Agent said: You have a lot to say for someone who admits they know nothing. Had little interest in Foxton cos it ain't been an official 'racetrack' since 2012 ! It's a trials track and training track for a decreasing number of horses and trainers...hoping to be a top Camping ground/Caravan park as well. Kinda disappointing for one of NZ's very first racing Clubs with some famous names thru the place...Paddy Busittin and David Howarth two of my favourite trainers and Chris waller there in early days. But you and your enthusiastic friends on here seem to be joined at the lip....a team of bullies...I suspect you and some others live in the area or are associated with club...I'd bet on it. The bitterness is oh so obvious but the hard working club of volunteers with a very good track surface only have themselves to blame......For many years they had 7 or 8 race meetings a year including summer dates but simply sat back in a daze and pretty much let them slip. To 4 x poor dates with poor turnover. Then , in a repeat of a prior history , some local lunatic lights fire to the grandstand and horse boxes....not once but 5 x times ! Foxton supporters obviously are repeat offenders.......and they suffered some flooding too which put them more in a daze. Once the lunatic was contained they procrastinated and this inaction saw them fail to tidy up the mess they were in. With so many CD tracks/clubs you would think they could get back in business but with many areas in NZ neighbouring clubs don't work together / rather CAN"T work together .RACE was established so some have tried. So the track not mothballed by NZTR or ignored by Messara. ......it wasn't even on the chart of racetracks ! Procrastination and spending too much time talking ,thinking and worrying about things they not responsible for or don't control. Sad ,because it obviously a pretty good surface ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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