ashburton stipes report

[the galah]

I think we all find the reports interesting as each of us has their own view on what we think is fair and whats not.

Yesterday there was some interesting decisions which i think people could view a little differently.

Paul Nairn got a 10 day suspension when driving the trotter forgiveness in race 2.

i can understand that one.  In his defence you could say,well the horse may have broken had he used more vigour. Maybe thats right as its a horse that just gallops for little reason if pressured,so its a tricky one for nairn when driving.

But he did carry a whip and i think he just didn't quite look to show enough intent between the 200m and the 50m.I guess he got a longer suspension because hes been found guilty of that previously. I can understand why hemay feel a little frustrated he got found guilty,but what choice was there when you look at the video.

Then you have the trevor grant case adjouned for a written decision. His drive at motukarara was on the 1st of april,and maybe the punters who backed him thought they were april fools after watching him in the final 200m. Now his case looked as clear as day so not sure why he defended it. But the decision will be interesting.

Then you had lionel dobbs. He started the day by admitting a whip infringment from a couple of weeks ago and got suspended for 3 days.Then in race 7 he was charged with using the whip in more than a wrist flicking motion in the home straight. Now,mr dobbs doesn't have the greatest success record when it comes to his driving. one 3rd from 118 drives. But there is no doubt he can train a racehorse,just by looking at how well his small stable of gallopers go,especially emanon who has won $323,000.

His horse yesterday,betterthandiva, fought hard all the way to the finish and ran a very creditable 4th.

but as to his drive,I can see why the stipes looked at his drive,but shouldn't they take into account that mr dobbs is a very tall person. Did the way he drove down the straight really warrant the 5 day suspension he got? Personally i don't think so.

Edited April 20, 2024 by the galah

[Nowornever]

GEM N EM - when questioned regarding the improved performance connections advised the mare had been held up for clear racing room throughout the run home at its last start and had received an economical run today.

GEM N EM being questioned for an “improved performance” doesn’t make much sense.

This horse was absolutely stiff last start and would have won with clear room! It had two thirds in its last three starts before that so no improvement at all just a better trip.

Even the public knew it was the best chance as it started favourite.  Meanwhile Normie Stead, had worse recent form, sat parked and still won — even after the driver dropped the whip — yet drew no similar scrutiny.

What is going on!

 

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Nowornever said:

GEM N EM - when questioned regarding the improved performance connections advised the mare had been held up for clear racing room throughout the run home at its last start and had received an economical run today.

GEM N EM being questioned for an “improved performance” doesn’t make much sense.

This horse was absolutely stiff last start and would have won with clear room! It had two thirds in its last three starts before that so no improvement at all just a better trip.

Even the public knew it was the best chance as it started favourite.  Meanwhile Normie Stead, had worse recent form, sat parked and still won — even after the driver dropped the whip — yet drew no similar scrutiny.

What is going on!

 

Hmmm Devon or Robbie, that’s a tough one?

Stipes really have it easy!

[Nowornever]

36 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Stipes really have it easy!

Gee the stipes must have the toughest job in racing… deciding who to question seems incredibly demanding these days.

[the galah]

Who they question is subjective to ones opinion of any horses form.

nowornever,i think your just likely to be  very good at doing the form and therefore aren't surprised when some horses perform well.

as to the stipes,the canterbury stipes intent is trying to keep the public informed and thats a good thing. Take it or leave it i suppose..

Its more information that some punters will appreciate and i believe implies that the stipes who do that have the right intent when it comes to oversight as well.

Edited yesterday at 08:55 AM by the galah

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

Who they question is subjective to ones opinion of any horses form.

nowornever,i think your just likely to be  very good at doing the form and therefore aren't surprised when some horses perform well.

as to the stipes,the canterbury stipes intent is trying to keep the public informed and thats a good thing. Take it or leave it i suppose..

Its more information that some punters will appreciate and i believe implies that the stipes who do that have the right intent when it comes to oversight as well.

Not too sure though how it is beneficial to punters after the race though?

The trainers and drivers will always give a reason and the Stipes just accept it, so not that useful!

What would be more useful, would be HRNZ actually advising the punters of why a horse went poor last start or any medicines administered a day or two before a race on HRNZ!

How often do we hear just before a race on Trackside of a horse having its hocks injected  or is in season, or a horse is now with another trainer and has been for weeks?

Fat lot of use just prior to the start, but would it be too hard for them to do this!

 

 

 

[Nowornever]

8 hours ago, the galah said:

as to the stipes,the canterbury stipes intent is trying to keep the public informed and thats a good thing

I agree but can they have some consistency doing that. The GEM N EM questioning is more confusing than informing. If they are going to be subjective then question a horse that really needs to be questioned.

If they are there for the public why do they question the favourite when it wins? Everyone expects it to perform so unless it dropped from double figures into favourite without cause there is no point.

They should be questioning a horse like Kotare Rata who has not performed at trials has gone terrible on race day with a 13th out of 13 and an 8th out of 13 and suddenly pops up at $10.00 a place. They never question those ones but instead question a favourite with recent form who was unlucky last start and got the perfect run to win. I don't understand it and although I have asked them in the past for a reasonable explanation to this, no one can or wants to give me an answer.

In any case the questioning is a token gesture because no one has ever been charged after questioning. Again pointless.

 

 

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, Nowornever said:

If they are there for the public why do they question the favourite when it wins? Everyone expects it to perform so unless it dropped from double figures into favourite without cause there is no point.

You could question every driver , every race about their tactics/ improvement or whatever.

In the end there is just one winner. we have very few problems around Australia as the field size is a sensible 9-10 in every state , therefore they all get a chance in a race and you can't 'cover up' 'drive quiet' or 'keep for next time' like they do in the silly 12- 14 horse races of yesteryear. Where it's VERY easy to get your horse beat.

Stewards in Aus will just look for one of Brodies big bet moves , and assess whether there were accomplices in helping the punted horse land the prize. Doesn't happen very often thankfully , there were some in country Victoria a while back with family members 'helping each other' out.  and There was a DQed former leading trainer did want to put $3000 on a horse a few years ago here in Queensland,  which resulted in the leading Trainer Vicki Rasmussen (Vicki never recovered and just races 2 horses she owns herself now after that year out)  and leading driver Shane Graham. getting very long DQ's  . People wanting to put Big bets on =  are nothing but trouble lol 😆🤣 

[the galah]

brodie,nowornever,gamma,you all make very good points that i i wouldn't argue against. 

i  believe the questioning that gets mentioned in canterbury stipes reports,even if it is after the fact and often involves what some think may be obvious answers ,is still very important as the sport needs ot be giving that perception of oversight,for the publics perspective that everything is above board.

you also see  canterbury stipes question drivers tactics,especially when it comes to a lack of vigour in a finish or not making obvious moves.Now i note that never gets criticised on this forum and i think that is because everyone likes to see that type of oversight.

if we go back to that old minefield,operation inca,i always argued and even highlighted some of the races involved before operation inca ever became public knowledge,,and that the stipes oversight was lacking.Some of the people involved appeared to have formed the opinion that they could take advantage of that lack of oversight.Now,i don't mean my favorite driver,b orange,i never saw him do anything wrong,but some of those others should have been getting asked qustions on  driving tactics and horse performances.Had that been happening properly,no operation inca. 

so what i'm saying is,the perception as far as integrity is very,very important and the form turnaround questioning is just part of how that perception is put out there to the public and to trainers and drivers.

The north isalnd stipes will never get any criticism for asking possible form turnarounds because they never ask the question and on the rare occassions you see something obviously dodgy up there,and it does happen,they just put the caps back on the binoculars and continue watching the races that way.

Edited 11 hours ago by the galah

[Gammalite]

8 hours ago, the galah said:

you also see  canterbury stipes question drivers tactics,especially when it comes to a lack of vigour in a finish or not making obvious moves.

 

8 hours ago, the galah said:

i  believe the questioning that gets mentioned in canterbury stipes reports,even if it is after the fact and often involves what some think may be obvious answers ,is still very important

Sometimes you have to have faith. That officials at ANY Sport can make decisions based on what they see.

I like a lot of your ideas , but you are a fraction to pedantic. (Nothing wrong with being Pedantic as you get more results in your favour that way , whatever you might be tackling , like Fishing for example lol 😆🤣)

Horses and drivers do funny things in races. Stewards have to make sense of it , BUT They CANNOT tell you how to drive your horse. Drivers still make split second decisions , horses make bad errors , and vice versa ) things happen.

Case 1/ I argued the driverless horse case at Hawera with you , over which we had differing views. The stewards probably even had a view different to BOTH of us . It's just the way it is . You wanted drivers suspended in that particular case. I didn't , as they were juniors and a driverless horse does Weird and wonderful things. Leeway is needed . and the race should of been called off to like a subscriber here pointed out . NoworNever I think it was.

CASE 2/ Not of interest to anyone except you Mr Galah , as you would remember this handy NZ horse  named HOT and TREACHEROUS. he raced last Saturday night Albion at Long odds,  against the FFA top class horses. And the driver went a bit 'Ballistic ' and tried to leave the hot favourite SPEAK THE TRUTH out 3 wide , and then tried to cross the leader not long after. A terrible effort as no way would that horse be giving him the lead. Anyway , The Classy 'Speak The Truth' ( a miracle Mile placegetter and started in the Slot races at Cambridge once he's that good)    powered to an easy Victory . The Mug driver of Hot and Treacherous was quizzed as to his driving tactics by stewards. I thought his drive was quite ordinary at the time .  Livingstone doesn't drive much at all though. and he was having a Go. to Win the race. 

And what could stipes do ?? suspend him for having a go ?? He tried to beat them , what you're spose to do . Didn't go about it as you might like as was shown to be futile against quality opponents. Anyway they didn't suspend him , and I can only imagine when quizzed he just said I was trying to lead and win . About 1 hour ago at our Tuesday Albion meet , we now run FFA stands for the old boys who can't keep up Saturday nights. to give them a race they can still win. Old TURN IT UP won one of these last month bless him. what a trooper he is. 

today, HOT and Treacherous in the stand FFA off 30m handicap ran a great 2nd , and paid $6 the place (starting 30-1) and Livingstone drove him beautifully and all but beat the hot favourite that he did head off for a few strides. well done to them. 

Each race is different , and looked at differently. Is quite funny for getting quizzed for having a go. Or not having a Go . But in the end the Stipes Can't tell them how to drive........ and the public has to accept that too. 

Case 3/ Lack of vigour things just happen in your Big silly fields in NZ . If you're last at the 1/4 in those Big 14 horse fields , why be vigorous ? you're NO HOPE of getting any of the money.  might as well wait till next time and still have a horse lol...   thankfully in Oz the 6-10 horse fields mean everyone can have a Go Everytime and lack of vigour not an issue at all.