Special Agent Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 I find it ironic that in a land where apparently we have too many tracks the tracks that are in use appear overworked and tired. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 down the outside (at wingatui), following the tire tyre tracks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 On 3/06/2024 at 8:49 AM, Pete Lane said: Ah the old 'ask a few trainers' line. How about you front up and name those you're talking about? Up to five trainers now that I've heard coment about the poor state of the Pukekohe track. Will be interesting to see the nominations for the 19 June meeting. Only 7 races scheduled again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lane Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Up to five trainers now that I've heard coment about the poor state of the Pukekohe track. Will be interesting to see the nominations for the 19 June meeting. Only 7 races scheduled again. So what? You seem to have some sort of vendetta going here. When Te Aroha produce something similar after not being used at all you excused it by saying it was winter. Double standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 19 hours ago, Pete Lane said: So what? You seem to have some sort of vendetta going here. When Te Aroha produce something similar after not being used at all you excused it by saying it was winter. Double standards. I don't have any vendetta - why would I have one? Is this what you mean by "having a fair idea"? I'm just noting my observations and passing on comments that I have heard from trainers and owners that I have asked about the conditions. Te Aroha didn't produce something similar. On what basis do you say that? Sitting in front of the TV? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lane Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I don't have any vendetta - why would I have one? Is this what you mean by "having a fair idea"? I'm just noting my observations and passing on comments that I have heard from trainers and owners that I have asked about the conditions. Te Aroha didn't produce something similar. On what basis do you say that? Sitting in front of the TV? I can get a pretty good idea from TV. I'm assuming by that comment that you personally inspect every track you raise an opinion on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 29 minutes ago, Pete Lane said: I can get a pretty good idea from TV. pardon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 hour ago, Pete Lane said: I can get a pretty good idea from TV. Well you are a better judge than most Trainers or Jockeys. 1 hour ago, Pete Lane said: I'm assuming by that comment that you personally inspect every track you raise an opinion on? I make a judgement initially on the form of horses racing on the track. If there is a pattern of form reversals then that raises suspicion. I then follow up by talking to Trainers or Owners that I may meet over time. If I have an interest in a horse racing then I will always try to walk the track before racetime and/or seek opinions oncourse from those with real skin in the game. So if your inference is that I have a vendetta and have based my opinions on no information then you would be wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Each to their own. Watch the first two races, (Timaru's of the NZ racing world excepted) and you will get a reasonable idea of what type of track you intend to bet on/against. The real problem is because of the long term poor maintenance, one often finds that there is more going on than deciding early (e.g.) it is an easy track on the cusp of soft. This is a fact regardless of whether one watched or walked the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 17 minutes ago, Wingman said: Each to their own. Watch the first two races, (Timaru's of the NZ racing world excepted) and you will get a reasonable idea of what type of track you intend to bet on/against. The real problem is because of the long term poor maintenance, one often finds that there is more going on than deciding early (e.g.) it is an easy track on the cusp of soft. This is a fact regardless of whether one watched or walked the track. Viewing the TV only tells you where the Jockeys have chosen to steer and/or where the horse ends up due to luck or lack thereof. Given very few Jockeys walk the track before racing they use the first two races to suss it out. It is also harder to detect viewing the video if the surface in places is rough or shifty. Some horses just won't go in that type of ground. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 On 9/06/2024 at 5:01 PM, Pete Lane said: I can get a pretty good idea from TV. I'm assuming by that comment that you personally inspect every track you raise an opinion on? Just talked to another trainer who would avoid Pukekohe at all costs. As well as the AWT's. How is your survey going? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 57 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Just talked to another trainer who would avoid Pukekohe at all costs. As well as the AWT's. How is your survey going? Sounds like 'mother-in-law 'research. They could be missing out , as can't be in the top 20 ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 56 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Sounds like 'mother-in-law 'research. They could be missing out , as can't be in the top 20 ! Your research says what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 10 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Your research says what? "POLLY WANTS A CRACKER" 🦜🦜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 12 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: They could be missing out , as can't be in the top 20 ! They are actually but then there are some very good trainers not in the top 20. Although being in the top 20 based on number of wins isn't a good indicator of the skill of a trainer. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 54 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: They are actually but then there are some very good trainers not in the top 20. Although being in the top 20 based on number of wins isn't a good indicator of the skill of a trainer. Agree totally...that why I took great care not to mention top 20 trainers by wins ! Number of wins may indicate other things like popularity/reputation ,respect , willingness to travel , ability to place horses to advantage etc etc. Now theres a bit of stuff to dwell over as the weather gets colder and we await the next abandonment or next chance to diss the Synthetic tracks ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 27 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: or next chance to diss the Synthetic tracks ! Aren't trainers showing what they think of them by voting with their feet? For example Cambridge trials cancelled yet 23 heats yesterday at Rotorua on a heavy 10? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lane Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Aren't trainers showing what they think of them by voting with their feet? Oh you mean people like Mark Walker, Stephen Marsh, Andrew Forsman and O'Sullivan/Scott? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 1 minute ago, Pete Lane said: Oh you mean people like Mark Walker, Stephen Marsh, Andrew Forsman and O'Sullivan/Scott? Is that why they all went to Rotorua yesterday to trial on a Heavy 10? You'll struggle to defend or spruik the success of the AWT's. Rogie seems the only one who wants to run young horses on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 32 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Agree totally...that why I took great care not to mention top 20 trainers by wins ! You agree with me yet down vote my post saying exactly that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lane Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Is that why they all went to Rotorua yesterday to trial on a Heavy 10? You'll struggle to defend or spruik the success of the AWT's. Rogie seems the only one who wants to run young horses on them. Bullshit. You're making stuff up as usual. Why have they all got horses running at Cambridge today? It could be they had some wet trackers that they wanted to run at Rotorua. I'm sure you know the answer because you know everything about everything I'll await another evasive reply. Edited June 11 by Pete Lane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 1 minute ago, Pete Lane said: Bullshit. You're making stuff up as usual. Why have they all got horses running at Cambridge today? I'll await another evasive reply. Because there is easy money available. Pure and simple. Put trials on the AWT that cost and they'd rather travel all the way to Rotorua to trial on a Heavy 10. As for evasive I'm still waiting for answers to my direct questions to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lane Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 In the interests of transparency can you please outline all these trainers you've spoken to who won't race at Pukekohe? I'm picking I'll be waiting a long time for an answer that isn't a load of waffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lane Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: Because there is easy money available. Pure and simple. Put trials on the AWT that cost and they'd rather travel all the way to Rotorua to trial on a Heavy 10. As for evasive I'm still waiting for answers to my direct questions to you. Ah so you're saying that they'll take the money above the horse's welfare? I'm sure they'd be concerned by your inference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 10 minutes ago, Pete Lane said: Ah so you're saying that they'll take the money above the horse's welfare? Has it been suggested that trainers are avoiding the AWTs because of safety issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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