horse values

[the galah]

i just looked at the latest gavel house results and it was interesting to see what a  couple sold for.

Huzuni,a horse who has a win,2nd,2x4ths in its last 5 starts over the last few weeks,only went for $1900. I suppose its got to race in the higher grade because it was a promoted winner after the yesberg runner got disqualified this week. But still,$1900 doesn't seem much .

Then you had the 10 year old mare Dolly jones.Her first foal is the 3year old Edward longshanks who has won 2 of 6 starts,the latest at addington last month.Also shes a  half sister to an open class trotter herself. She only sold for, $600 and there was a $200 transport subsidy from the owner.

theres no doubt several contributing reasons,but really thats very sad that they seem to be valued at so little if sold within nz.

 

 

[Shad]

13 hours ago, the galah said:

i just looked at the latest gavel house results and it was interesting to see what a  couple sold for.

Huzuni,a horse who has a win,2nd,2x4ths in its last 5 starts over the last few weeks,only went for $1900. I suppose its got to race in the higher grade because it was a promoted winner after the yesberg runner got disqualified this week. But still,$1900 doesn't seem much .

Then you had the 10 year old mare Dolly jones.Her first foal is the 3year old Edward longshanks who has won 2 of 6 starts,the latest at addington last month.Also shes a  half sister to an open class trotter herself. She only sold for, $600 and there was a $200 transport subsidy from the owner.

theres no doubt several contributing reasons,but really thats very sad that they seem to be valued at so little if sold within nz.

 

 

Can't seem to give some of them away, which is sad, but I guess time of the times.

[Westview]

19 hours ago, the galah said:

i just looked at the latest gavel house results and it was interesting to see what a  couple sold for.

Huzuni,a horse who has a win,2nd,2x4ths in its last 5 starts over the last few weeks,only went for $1900. I suppose its got to race in the higher grade because it was a promoted winner after the yesberg runner got disqualified this week. But still,$1900 doesn't seem much .

Then you had the 10 year old mare Dolly jones.Her first foal is the 3year old Edward longshanks who has won 2 of 6 starts,the latest at addington last month.Also shes a  half sister to an open class trotter herself. She only sold for, $600 and there was a $200 transport subsidy from the owner.

theres no doubt several contributing reasons,but really thats very sad that they seem to be valued at so little if sold within nz.

 

 

If your lucky enough to buy one race fit you have saved yourself another 5 grand. Racing horse's is not for making money. 

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Westview said:

If your lucky enough to buy one race fit you have saved yourself another 5 grand. Racing horse's is not for making money. 

You can see why the small breeders are disappearing.

Increasing costs,diminshing returns and uncertainty and apprehension about decisions being made by industry leadership.

All thats applicable moreso for the small breeder than the commercial breeders.

The commercial breeders focus on breeding horses for the yearling sales and providing horses that race early in races where stakes and bonuses are being diverted.

also commercial breeders can take advantage of tax changes that winston brought in to assist commercial breeders.

Its hard enough for the commercial breeders to keep going,so its inevitable that the small breeders will continue to diminish in numbers. Small breeders concerns and struggles are being paid lip service by industry leadership.

so currently,i think if you talk to people,you will find many small breeders doing what they never want to do,and that is give up their hopes and aspirations for any foals that may be bred and instead are facing the reality that they need to get rid of their broodmares,whether it be finances,lack of affordable grazing,lack of finding anywhere to graze,breeders getting older and maybe having to focus on their health,etc,etc..

Thats whats happening and i don't see where anyone in charge has done anything tangible to assist them.

Its all really sad,because most breeders would still have the passion,but times have changed and reality is kicking in.And harness racing as an industry will be much poorer as a result.

Edited September 13 by the galah

[Westview]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

You can see why the small breeders are disappearing.

Increasing costs,diminshing returns and uncertainty and apprehension about decisions being made by industry leadership.

All thats applicable moreso for the small breeder than the commercial breeders.

The commercial breeders focus on breeding horses for the yearling sales and providing horses that race early in races where stakes and bonuses are being diverted.

also commercial breeders can take advantage of tax changes that winston brought in to assist commercial breeders.

Its hard enough for the commercial breeders to keep going,so its inevitable that the small breeders will continue to diminish in numbers. Small breeders concerns and struggles are being paid lip service by industry leadership.

so currently,i think if you talk to people,you will find many small breeders doing what they never want to do,and that is give up their hopes and aspirations for any foals that may be bred and instead are facing the reality that they need to get rid of their broodmares,whether it be finances,lack of affordable grazing,lack of finding anywhere to graze,breeders getting older and maybe having to focus on their health,etc,etc..

Thats whats happening and i don't see where anyone in charge has done anything tangible to assist them.

Its all really sad,because most breeders would still have the passion,but times have changed and reality is kicking in.And harness racing as an industry will be much poorer as a result.

To be viable to breed horse's you need someone to race them, about 60% of race horse's still have breeders as part of their ownership. Although we were told 70% of the new funding is going into the lower end horse's I can't see it, creating new race's at that level is not what I'd call looking  after the bread and butter battlers that ultimately fund our racing .

[the galah]

Imperial command sold for $21,000 on gavel house today.

I started this thread about how harness horses aren't worth much,and then that comes along.

I'm very, very surprised that someone would pay anywhere near that for him. Seemingly there were many chasing him including offn racing i think it was.

He's had 48 race day starts and about 20 official trials and workouts and is only 3.

He had the 1 raceday win(i backed him that day) and 1 other win in a non tote 2year old 3 horse race.

His last run at the trials, he performed quite out of character in bolting in a wild gallop for the last 500m.

well done to alan clark for getting such a big price.I know he has sold some others that have gone on ok after being sold,but then again there have been others that haven't.

also sold was vinchetto for $4,000 ,a horse with 3 placings from 10 starts for mathew williamson. I know that ones no champ,but he seemed to be a little under valued to me.

then you had Ya know. She had the 3 wins and 8 placings from 28 starts. shes a  6 year old  broodmare with a speeding spur foal at foot. That package went for only $1500. Being a rating 49 she may well be able to resume racing in the future you would think, as she won when in foal.

$1,500 for ya know and $21,000 for imperial command.

go figure. 

[Nowornever]

11 hours ago, the galah said:

Imperial command sold for $21,000 on gavel house today.

I started this thread about how harness horses aren't worth much,and then that comes along.

I'm very, very surprised that someone would pay anywhere near that for him. Seemingly there were many chasing him including offn racing i think it was.

He's had 48 race day starts and about 20 official trials and workouts and is only 3.

He had the 1 raceday win(i backed him that day) and 1 other win in a non tote 2year old 3 horse race.

His last run at the trials, he performed quite out of character in bolting in a wild gallop for the last 500m.

well done to alan clark for getting such a big price.I know he has sold some others that have gone on ok after being sold,but then again there have been others that haven't.

also sold was vinchetto for $4,000 ,a horse with 3 placings from 10 starts for mathew williamson. I know that ones no champ,but he seemed to be a little under valued to me.

then you had Ya know. She had the 3 wins and 8 placings from 28 starts. shes a  6 year old  broodmare with a speeding spur foal at foot. That package went for only $1500. Being a rating 49 she may well be able to resume racing in the future you would think, as she won when in foal.

$1,500 for ya know and $21,000 for imperial command.

go figure. 

Yes I was keen on him as well thought he would do a good job in Australia with his mobile speed.  Will be a four legged walking money machine if he goes over there. 

[the galah]

5 hours ago, Nowornever said:

Yes I was keen on him as well thought he would do a good job in Australia with his mobile speed.  Will be a four legged walking money machine if he goes over there. 

thats interesting.

Obviously many people agree with you,hence the value he went for.

the horse would have been up and going since an early yearling.

Alan clark is very good at getting young trotters going. Probably one of the best. people underestimate that part.But with that,you can't help but factor in whether that will take a toll on its longevity.The feiry ginga was the exception to that rule,but my theory on him was that he was so dominant as a 2 year old and early 3 year old,that he was winning without over extending himself and therefore his body wasn't under as much stress as compared with imperial command, who while competitive,wasn't quite up with the very best 2 year olds and was always busting a gut to run just behind the placegetters.. 

In his last standing start he refused to move at the start and took no part ,then he trialed at ashburton and totally out of character made a break during the running,galloping for 500m. And why did he break?

He seems to have been hanging a little ,moreso just recently. Maybe its just a habit or maybe its because he has some soreness. Who can tell for sure.

He was stood down a month ago because of soreness in a hind leg,but soon bounced back and ran 3rd a couple of weeks later. That soreness may have been related to when he went on the grass and ran over the pathway to the greyhound track at addington.

and of course 1 penalty free non tote 2year old win and 1 tote win from 48 starts.

Maybe he will turn out to be a good buy at $21,000 like you say,but in my opinion,whoever bought him,overpaid for him.

Edited September 26 by the galah

[Brodie]

4 hours ago, the galah said:

thats interesting.

Obviously many people agree with you,hence the value he went for.

the horse would have been up and going since an early yearling.

Alan clark is very good at getting young trotters going. Probably one of the best. people underestimate that part.But with that,you can't help but factor in whether that will take a toll on its longevity.The feiry ginga was the exception to that rule,but my theory on him was that he was so dominant as a 2 year old and early 3 year old,that he was winning without over extending himself and therefore his body wasn't under as much stress as compared with imperial command, who while competitive,wasn't quite up with the very best 2 year olds and was always busting a gut to run just behind the placegetters.. 

In his last standing start he refused to move at the start and took no part ,then he trialed at ashburton and totally out of character made a break during the running,galloping for 500m. And why did he break?

He seems to have been hanging a little ,moreso just recently. Maybe its just a habit or maybe its because he has some soreness. Who can tell for sure.

He was stood down a month ago because of soreness in a hind leg,but soon bounced back and ran 3rd a couple of weeks later. That soreness may have been related to when he went on the grass and ran over the pathway to the greyhound track at addington.

and of course 1 penalty free non tote 2year old win and 1 tote win from 48 starts.

Maybe he will turn out to be a good buy at $21,000 like you say,but in my opinion,whoever bought him,overpaid for him.

My question is why was Imperial Command put up for sale on. Gavel?

Is Alan Clarke giving the training away?

If not I would be very wary of why he was selling the horse!

[Spatchcock]

56 minutes ago, Brodie said:

My question is why was Imperial Command put up for sale on. Gavel?

Is Alan Clarke giving the training away?

If not I would be very wary of why he was selling the horse!

it bolted on him at the trials last week.
 

[Spatchcock]

Alan has had five winners from his last 300 starters, across 10 years.
Is it any wonder people are falling over themselves to buy one off him that has shown speed?

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Spatchcock said:

it bolted on him at the trials last week.
 

Maybe it is green and not race experienced enough?

Wonder who bought it and who is training

Edited September 26 by Brodie

[paleface adios]

On 9/26/2024 at 7:29 PM, Brodie said:

Maybe it is green and not race experienced enough?

Wonder who bought it and who is training

did the railway sleeper guy have a bid?

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, paleface adios said:

did the railway sleeper guy have a bid?

Na, too much borer in the sleepers!

[Nowornever]

19 hours ago, Brodie said:

Na, too much borer in the sleepers!

Get ready for a good go this week Brodie.... Bookies will have absolutely no idea at Addington. Picking some good horses will be at insane odds.

They can not keep them all at low odds 😂. 

 

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Nowornever said:

Get ready for a good go this week Brodie.... Bookies will have absolutely no idea at Addington. Picking some good horses will be at insane odds.

They can not keep them all at low odds 😂. 

 

Prefer them to be running more non winner races lol

[Nowornever]

Yes as predicted they are trying to keep all horses tight in the market. The 2yo fillies sires stakes already a few moves in the market so they got the prices wrong straight away. Gone Surfin $9.00 on opening LOL. No way the Purdon horse closes at 8.50 I am picking they got that one wrong as well. 

[Brodie]

4 hours ago, Nowornever said:

Yes as predicted they are trying to keep all horses tight in the market. The 2yo fillies sires stakes already a few moves in the market so they got the prices wrong straight away. Gone Surfin $9.00 on opening LOL. No way the Purdon horse closes at 8.50 I am picking they got that one wrong as well. 

Gone Surfin  surely isnt any value at $5 in that field from 5 the second line?

Going to have to be so much better than the others to win from there, you would think?

Far too many chances to be gambling in that field?

[Nowornever]

10 hours ago, Brodie said:

Gone Surfin  surely isnt any value at $5 in that field from 5 the second line?

You are right but a mark of a good bookie is one who should get the opening prices as near to the closing prices as they can.

What you and I are hoping for is some odds setters who struggle with this and get it totally wrong in which case that is where you get the value on your runner if you are lucky.

Those races at Addington on Friday night are helped by the fact there are a number of stables who have burnt the bookies in the past. When you have Purdons, Telfers and Dunns in the same race with multiple horses where usually they like to have one of those stable runners sub $2 the recipe is there for a complete mind fuck for a non confident bookie.

 

[paleface adios]

On 9/30/2024 at 9:10 PM, Brodie said:

Prefer them to be running more non winner races lol

if your betting on non winners you not be restricted punter

[the galah]

imperial command has gone to australia. 

gee they must be keen on him as $21,000 & cost of flight & govt costs & don't they have a levy for nz horses imposed by hra? i still find it hard to believe someone paid so much for him.I will keep an eye on how he goes in australia.

theres another ex a clark horse on gavel house currently. The better performed night watch who has done a nice job for brad williamson.

Interestingly b williamson has been very honest and said the horse has bled in the past and is normally treated for that.Night watch not given as tough a preparation as imperial command when younger,although still did race a lot early for mr clark.

K tomlinson did say a couple of months ago she felt night watch was best with its races spaced a bit instead of backing up one week after another.

I would say night watches owners will be hoping the buyers of imperial command get involved in bidding on this one as well.

Edited October 3 by the galah

[TAB For Ever]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

imperial command has gone to australia. 

gee they must be keen on him as $21,000 & cost of flight & govt costs & don't they have a levy for nz horses imposed by hra? i still find it hard to believe someone paid so much for him.I will keep an eye on how he goes in australia.

theres another ex a clark horse on gavel house currently. The better performed night watch who has done a nice job for brad williamson.

Interestingly b williamson has been very honest and said the horse has bled in the past and is normally treated for that.Night watch not given as tough a preparation as imperial command when younger,although still did race a lot early for mr clark.

K tomlinson did say a couple of months ago she felt night watch was best with its races spaced a bit instead of backing up one week after another.

I would say night watches owners will be hoping the buyers of imperial command get involved in bidding on this one as well.

We yearn for more grass roots [ horses and people ] in Harness racing and we like to see them do well and get a fair go.

Yet when A.Clark's name is mentioned we love rolling up our sleeves and knocking him every which way.

He's certainly stuck around for a while and as an old friend said recently you would nt have picked  from his school days that Harness racing would become his passion.    He's certainly put a lot into it and had some great moments. I believe he was a school teacher !

As to him selling his horse for good money [comparatively]  he has traditionally had all his horses 'for sale'....even The Fiery Ginga when it was racing in the the elite grade. His attitude he was not just offering those without any apparent ability.

He taught himself how to do everything , including shoeing the horses and even making much of the leather gear .The Fiery Ginga certainly developed into a special horse...was it 25 or 28 wins . Even Dexter Dunn drove it a few times ,but mainly Alan drove it . Early on Alan didn't qualify to drive on the Premier days eg his early Jewels entries , but he kept at it and qualified to drive in Group races.

His races against that Champion Mark Purdon[ Heza doosie] were memorable. He also won a heat of Interdoms at Ballarat and a group of us travelled from Melbourne to watch it .And Highview Tommy paid $100 to win the Ballarat Cup that night ,as an aside !

Another feature of Alan's horses was the fact that he either bred them with strict budget or bought from the Bargain Basement bin.At sales he was picking up horses for peanuts.[ $1k to $2 ] His theory was to exercise them early ,no sitting around getting extra fat on grass .He believed the risk of injury was far greater when horses overweight. Consequently he had little need for Vets !

And contrary to what is always spewed out on here his horses ...these cheap as chips equines with average parents......had a  lot of resilience and tended to race on for much longer than the average trotter.

I'd say he's had some great experiences and thrills as a self -taught horseman , so good on em I say !

Lay off him !

[Nowornever]

10 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

We yearn for more grass roots [ horses and people ] in Harness racing and we like to see them do well and get a fair go.

Yet when A.Clark's name is mentioned we love rolling up our sleeves and knocking him every which way.

He's certainly stuck around for a while and as an old friend said recently you would nt have picked  from his school days that Harness racing would become his passion.    He's certainly put a lot into it and had some great moments. I believe he was a school teacher !

As to him selling his horse for good money [comparatively]  he has traditionally had all his horses 'for sale'....even The Fiery Ginga when it was racing in the the elite grade. His attitude he was not just offering those without any apparent ability.

He taught himself how to do everything , including shoeing the horses and even making much of the leather gear .The Fiery Ginga certainly developed into a special horse...was it 25 or 28 wins . Even Dexter Dunn drove it a few times ,but mainly Alan drove it . Early on Alan didn't qualify to drive on the Premier days eg his early Jewels entries , but he kept at it and qualified to drive in Group races.

His races against that Champion Mark Purdon[ Heza doosie] were memorable. He also won a heat of Interdoms at Ballarat and a group of us travelled from Melbourne to watch it .And Highview Tommy paid $100 to win the Ballarat Cup that night ,as an aside !

Another feature of Alan's horses was the fact that he either bred them with strict budget or bought from the Bargain Basement bin.At sales he was picking up horses for peanuts.[ $1k to $2 ] His theory was to exercise them early ,no sitting around getting extra fat on grass .He believed the risk of injury was far greater when horses overweight. Consequently he had little need for Vets !

And contrary to what is always spewed out on here his horses ...these cheap as chips equines with average parents......had a  lot of resilience and tended to race on for much longer than the average trotter.

I'd say he's had some great experiences and thrills as a self -taught horseman , so good on em I say !

Lay off him !

Yes good on him for all he has achieved in his career but if he just wants improved success on the track he should give up the driving side of the operation. In my opinion he would have double the training wins and double the prizemoney if he wasn't doing the driving.

[the galah]

11 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

We yearn for more grass roots [ horses and people ] in Harness racing and we like to see them do well and get a fair go.

Yet when A.Clark's name is mentioned we love rolling up our sleeves and knocking him every which way.

He's certainly stuck around for a while and as an old friend said recently you would nt have picked  from his school days that Harness racing would become his passion.    He's certainly put a lot into it and had some great moments. I believe he was a school teacher !

As to him selling his horse for good money [comparatively]  he has traditionally had all his horses 'for sale'....even The Fiery Ginga when it was racing in the the elite grade. His attitude he was not just offering those without any apparent ability.

He taught himself how to do everything , including shoeing the horses and even making much of the leather gear .The Fiery Ginga certainly developed into a special horse...was it 25 or 28 wins . Even Dexter Dunn drove it a few times ,but mainly Alan drove it . Early on Alan didn't qualify to drive on the Premier days eg his early Jewels entries , but he kept at it and qualified to drive in Group races.

His races against that Champion Mark Purdon[ Heza doosie] were memorable. He also won a heat of Interdoms at Ballarat and a group of us travelled from Melbourne to watch it .And Highview Tommy paid $100 to win the Ballarat Cup that night ,as an aside !

Another feature of Alan's horses was the fact that he either bred them with strict budget or bought from the Bargain Basement bin.At sales he was picking up horses for peanuts.[ $1k to $2 ] His theory was to exercise them early ,no sitting around getting extra fat on grass .He believed the risk of injury was far greater when horses overweight. Consequently he had little need for Vets !

And contrary to what is always spewed out on here his horses ...these cheap as chips equines with average parents......had a  lot of resilience and tended to race on for much longer than the average trotter.

I'd say he's had some great experiences and thrills as a self -taught horseman , so good on em I say !

Lay off him !

good for you for sticking up for mr clark.

But the" lay off him" is just a ridiculous comment from you. 

Who are you saying that to anyway?

Why are you so sensitive when it comes to people commenting about something that  is real.

Everyone knows Mr clark concentrates a lot of his time on getting young trotters going,then he races them a lot..

I know i have never knocked him for doing what is his area of expertise.

But,i have every rite to express an opinion that racing a young horse so much early in its life may have an impact on its longevity as it gets older.That opinion is not about mr clark,hes just the most obvious example.

How about you go read what i said in this thread anyway.

I will repeat it just for you.

On 26/09/2024 at 1:11 PM, the galah said:

 

Alan clark is very good at getting young trotters going. Probably one of the best. people underestimate that part.But with that,you can't help but factor in whether that will take a toll on its longevity.

On 25/09/2024 at 7:38 PM, the galah said:

well done to alan clark for getting such a big price.I know he has sold some others that have gone on ok after being sold,but then again there have been others that haven't.

 

 

 

TAb forever if you had not put" lay off him",then fair enough,but wth that comment you seem to have lost perspective of what has been said.

Edited October 3 by the galah

[TAB For Ever]

On 10/4/2024 at 10:54 AM, the galah said:

good for you for sticking up for mr clark.

But the" lay off him" is just a ridiculous comment from you. 

Who are you saying that to anyway?

Why are you so sensitive when it comes to people commenting about something that  is real.

Everyone knows Mr clark concentrates a lot of his time on getting young trotters going,then he races them a lot..

I know i have never knocked him for doing what is his area of expertise.

But,i have every rite to express an opinion that racing a young horse so much early in its life may have an impact on its longevity as it gets older.That opinion is not about mr clark,hes just the most obvious example.

How about you go read what i said in this thread anyway.

I will repeat it just for you.

 

TAb forever if you had not put" lay off him",then fair enough,but wth that comment you seem to have lost perspective of what has been said.

Not at all Galah , you quite prepared to join in a thread that ,as has happened in the past many times ,was only going to get more negative with derogatory comments about a good honest couple of grass roots battlers.

I think you are like the rooster who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow.

I wasn't getting at you ...in NZ there are other posters not just you.

But you did question the LONGEVITY of horses he raised and developed and suggested there were 'failures'.

You were leaning toward negativity.

What trainer doesn't have poor performers ,especially those who breed from average stock or buy from bargain basement ?