MASSIVE cheating in NZ Cup

[Thomass]

So no surprises Kelly Myers resorts to cheating on her fav. owners horse BEAVERTOWN BOY

!0 strikes before the 100M including consecutive strides where 5's allowed and deserves a DQ for that.  Would never have won but in other enlightened jurisdictions it doesn't matter

Alarmingly NZTR have made ZERO mention of having a DQ option in their new whip rulings

Cheating in Black Type racing will continue on then.

NZTR

Lovesracing HATES integrity 

[curious]

17 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Alarmingly NZTR have made ZERO mention of having a DQ option in their new whip rulings

Where are the new whip rules? Last I heard they were to be sent out for consultation but I haven't seen them yet.

[Thomass]

I saw the 'consultation' proposal they usually send out to trainers...was that the one you put up?

When Matthew Cameron outrageously cheated in the Sistema 2 years ago Guerin had Jammie Richards on who was asked in roundabout terms

"does that relly relly annoy the f*** out of you getting beaten by a downright cheat and severely compromising the INTEGRITY of G1  Black Type"??

Jammie, not wanting to be a 'sore loser'

 "I just get out of bed every morning and brush me teeth"

Guerin contacted NZTR he was that ropable

"when tf are you going to change the rules as per International norms"?

NZTR

"na we're not"!

F***witz

 

[Tragedy Beat]

Clown

[Thomass]

Heard of poetic license?

Look it up 

The point is NZTR allow outrageous cheating, usually in Black Type racing where trainers/jockeys are bursting their foo foo valves for possible cheating owners as well

What's to stop a determined breeder to issue instructions to whoever

"do ALL you can to win, knock ANYTHING over, beat the shit out of it"

..and I'll look after you post fine and suspension"

...because as sure as eggs are eggs we CANT LOSE it in the room"

Other countries?

of course not...DQ's and RIGHTLY  so

[Thomass]

21 hours ago, curious said:

Where are the new whip rules? Last I heard they were to be sent out for consultation but I haven't seen them yet.

So nothing about DQ's for cheating.  NZTR have once again pulled the EXPEDIENT rabbit out of the bag.  Lazy, disgraceful 'governing'

"PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE RULES OF RACING NZTR seeks comment on the following proposed amendments to the Rules of Racing.

Should you wish to make any comments or provide any other feedback please do so in writing to colin.hall@nztr.co.nz. on or before 25th November 2024. Words to be added are in bold and underlined. Words to be deleted are struck through.

WHIP USE. Background: The International Agreement on Breeding, Racing and Wagering contains a number of prohibitions on the use of the whip by riders in Flat and Jumps races.

Most of these prohibitions are contained in Rule 638(3)(f). In order to align the Rules with the International Agreement it is proposed that Rule 638(3)(f) be amended as follows:

(f) Without limiting the generality of subrule 638(3)(e), in a Flat Race or Jumping Race, a Trial (including jump-outs and/or tests for certification purposes) a Rider must not use his or her whip:

(i) forward of the Rider’s horse’s shoulder or in the vicinity of its head; or

(ii) using an action that raises the Rider’s arm above shoulder height; or

(iii) when the Rider’s horse is out of contention of winning or otherwise finishing in the first five placings; or (iv) when the Rider’s horse is showing no response; or

(v) after passing the winning post; or (vi) in a manner that causes a welt and/or injury to the Rider’s horse; or

(vii) when the Rider’s horse is clearly winning; or

(viii) when the Rider’s horse has no reasonable prospect of improving or losing its position; or (ix) in a manner where the seam of the flap is the point of contact with the horse, unless the Rider satisfies the Stewards that that was neither deliberate nor reckless, or

(x) on the flank of the Rider’s horse; or (xi) forward of the Rider’s saddle whilst the whip is held in the forehand position. 

 

[curious]

31 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Heard of poetic license?

Look it up 

The point is NZTR allow outrageous cheating, usually in Black Type racing where trainers/jockeys are bursting their foo foo valves for possible cheating owners as well

What's to stop a determined breeder to issue instructions to whoever

"do ALL you can to win, knock ANYTHING over, beat the shit out of it"

..and I'll look after you post fine and suspension"

...because as sure as eggs are eggs we CANT LOSE it in the room"

Other countries?

of course not...DQ's and RIGHTLY  so

The excessive whip breaches in the NZ Cup, would have been an instant DQ in the US, UK and France.

[curious]

30 minutes ago, Thomass said:

So nothing about DQ's for cheating.  NZTR have once again pulled the EXPEDIENT rabbit out of the bag.  Lazy, disgraceful 'governing'

"PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE RULES OF RACING NZTR seeks comment on the following proposed amendments to the Rules of Racing.

Should you wish to make any comments or provide any other feedback please do so in writing to colin.hall@nztr.co.nz. on or before 25th November 2024. Words to be added are in bold and underlined. Words to be deleted are struck through.

WHIP USE. Background: The International Agreement on Breeding, Racing and Wagering contains a number of prohibitions on the use of the whip by riders in Flat and Jumps races.

Most of these prohibitions are contained in Rule 638(3)(f). In order to align the Rules with the International Agreement it is proposed that Rule 638(3)(f) be amended as follows:

(f) Without limiting the generality of subrule 638(3)(e), in a Flat Race or Jumping Race, a Trial (including jump-outs and/or tests for certification purposes) a Rider must not use his or her whip:

(i) forward of the Rider’s horse’s shoulder or in the vicinity of its head; or

(ii) using an action that raises the Rider’s arm above shoulder height; or

(iii) when the Rider’s horse is out of contention of winning or otherwise finishing in the first five placings; or (iv) when the Rider’s horse is showing no response; or

(v) after passing the winning post; or (vi) in a manner that causes a welt and/or injury to the Rider’s horse; or

(vii) when the Rider’s horse is clearly winning; or

(viii) when the Rider’s horse has no reasonable prospect of improving or losing its position; or (ix) in a manner where the seam of the flap is the point of contact with the horse, unless the Rider satisfies the Stewards that that was neither deliberate nor reckless, or

(x) on the flank of the Rider’s horse; or (xi) forward of the Rider’s saddle whilst the whip is held in the forehand position. 

 

Good work. Where the hell did you find that? I can't see it anywhere. Did any other owners or trainers get it?

[Thomass]

It's on the trainers website

https://www.nztrainers.co.nz/

many gems to be discovered there including 'how to handle anti racing types and shut them up even though they might have a bloody good point'

https://kickup.com.au/

"Whips are made of padded foam and are not designed to inflict pain but to make a ‘popping’ sound on impact with the horse’s rump. Jockeys must conform to tight regulations on whip use, or they face harsh fines and bans. 

With public perception in mind, reform is ongoing and regulations are getting stricter each year."

Haha, a popping sound??  have they seen Jake Bayliss wrecking havoc on many a flank??

[Chief Stipe]

33 minutes ago, Thomass said:

many gems to be discovered there including 'how to handle anti racing types and shut them up even though they might have a bloody good point'

Any advice on how to handle you?  You meet the anti-racing type criteria but not the "having a bloody good point" criteria.

[Tragedy Beat]

More BS from the resident idiot. Have a day off would ya?

[curious]

1 hour ago, Thomass said:

It's on the trainers website

https://www.nztrainers.co.nz/

many gems to be discovered there including 'how to handle anti racing types and shut them up even though they might have a bloody good point'

https://kickup.com.au/

"Whips are made of padded foam and are not designed to inflict pain but to make a ‘popping’ sound on impact with the horse’s rump. Jockeys must conform to tight regulations on whip use, or they face harsh fines and bans. 

With public perception in mind, reform is ongoing and regulations are getting stricter each year."

Haha, a popping sound??  have they seen Jake Bayliss wrecking havoc on many a flank??

Thanks. I did have it (parked). For response this week.

I note that they have conveniently left out critical elements of the IFHA guidelines though good to see the prohibition on flank use and overhand forward of the saddle. It still won't be compliant with or "align the Rules with the International Agreement", will it?

Only padded/shock absorbing whips/crops which have not been modified in any way may be carried in a race.
This Guideline gives examples of use of the whip which are prohibited:
- Using the whip to the extent of causing injury.
- Using the whip with the arm above shoulder height.
- Using the whip with excessive force.
- Using the whip on a horse which is showing no response.
- The continued use of the whip on a horse after its chance of winning or being placed is clearly gone.
- The unnecessary use of the whip on a horse that has clearly won its race or has obtained its maximum
placing.
- Using the whip on a horse which is past the winning post.
- Using the whip on the flank of the horse.
- Using the whip with excessive frequency.
- Using the whip on any part of the horse’s head or in the vicinity of the head.
- The use of the whip in front of the saddle while the whip is held in the forehand position, unless
exceptional circumstances prevail.

 

Edited November 20 by curious

[curious]

7 minutes ago, curious said:

Thanks. I did have it (parked). For response this week.

I note that they have conveniently left out critical elements of the IFHA guidelines though good to see the prohibition on flank use and overhand forward of the saddle. It still won't be compliant with or "align the Rules with the International Agreement", will it?

Only padded/shock absorbing whips/crops which have not been modified in any way may be carried in a race.
This Guideline gives examples of use of the whip which are prohibited:
- Using the whip to the extent of causing injury.
- Using the whip with the arm above shoulder height.
- Using the whip with excessive force.
- Using the whip on a horse which is showing no response.
- The continued use of the whip on a horse after its chance of winning or being placed is clearly gone.
- The unnecessary use of the whip on a horse that has clearly won its race or has obtained its maximum
placing.
- Using the whip on a horse which is past the winning post.
- Using the whip on the flank of the horse.
- Using the whip with excessive frequency.
- Using the whip on any part of the horse’s head or in the vicinity of the head.
- The use of the whip in front of the saddle while the whip is held in the forehand position, unless
exceptional circumstances prevail.

 

I take that back. It's in another part of the rule.

(e) In a Flat Race or Jumping Race, a Trial (including jump-outs and/or tests for certification
purposes), a Rider must not use his or her whip in an excessive, unnecessary or improper
manner.

[Thomass]

Pretty clear NZTR's idea of "excessive" doesn't tally with international norms though

Here jockeys can slip in @ 13 to 14 strikes when following the 5 before 100M and non consecutive after that

France 4 and Brits 6

Then this rubbish

"appropriately" updated is finger in the air stuff and ignores DQ's

As for "data loggers and accelerometers" 

pfft, what happened to that tech?

NZTR will:

• Ensure that the general provisions and specific guidelines of the whip rule are appropriately updated and can be consistently interpreted and enforced
• Ensure continued guidance and training, particularly for apprentices, on ‘hands and heels’ riding skills to minimise an over-reliance on whip use
• Investigate the availability and practical use of new technology such as whips with data loggers and accelerometers, to provide objective data on whip use during racing."

[curious]

14 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Pretty clear NZTR's idea of "excessive" doesn't tally with international norms though

Here jockeys can slip in @ 13 to 14 strikes when following the 5 before 100M and non consecutive after that

France 4 and Brits 6

Exactly!

And add this from the Brits for example:

g) A rider must allow 3 strides between each use of the whip

h) A rider must only use the whip where their horse is responding

Edited November 20 by curious

[Thomass]

40 minutes ago, curious said:

Exactly!

And add this from the Brits for example:

g) A rider must allow 3 strides between each use of the whip

h) A rider must only use the whip where their horse is responding

Perfect!

And 

G(i) A rider must place both hands back on the reins/wither between strikes

Which, in NZTR's time of expediency re @Opie and @Te Akau complaining they were screwed

Separating 'consecutive'  and 'counting' strikes into different categories!

The REIN rule would also catch out the likes of Sam Spratt, Nabber, Joe Doyle, et el who leave their whips flailing and continuously striking on the pretense they're 'showing the whip'

 

 

 

[Murray Fish]

1 hour ago, Thomass said:

on ‘hands and heels’ riding skills to minimise an over-reliance on whip use

with spurs?

 

[curious]

47 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Perfect!

And 

G(i) A rider must place both hands back on the reins/wither between strikes

Which, in NZTR's time of expediency re @Opie and @Te Akau complaining they were screwed

Separating 'consecutive'  and 'counting' strikes into different categories!

The REIN rule would also catch out the likes of Sam Spratt, Nabber, Joe Doyle, et el who leave their whips flailing and continuously striking on the pretense they're 'showing the whip'

Yep. The US HISA rules would be ok too. Similar but different and DQ for 4 strikes over and complete ban on use on 2yos the first 3 months of the season.

(b) A rider may:
(1) Use the crop on the hindquarters to activate and focus the Horse a
maximum of 6 times during a race. The 6 permitted uses shall be in
increments of 2 or fewer strikes. The rider must allow at least 2 strides for the
Horse to respond before using the crop again.
(2) Tap the Horse on the shoulder with the crop while both hands are holding
on to the reins and both hands are touching the neck of the Horse.

It beggars belief that Australasia are so far behind international standards, despite the Australian Veterinary Association review recommending that whip use for encouragement be phased out in all equestrian events.

 

[curious]

14 minutes ago, Murray Fish said:

with spurs?

 

Long since banned.

611 A Rider must not wear spurs in a Flat Race or flat Trial (including a flat jump-out or flat test for
certification purposes)

[Chief Stipe]

On 18/11/2024 at 12:41 PM, Thomass said:

I saw the 'consultation' proposal they usually send out to trainers...was that the one you put up?

When Matthew Cameron outrageously cheated in the Sistema 2 years ago Guerin had Jammie Richards on who was asked in roundabout terms

"does that relly relly annoy the f*** out of you getting beaten by a downright cheat and severely compromising the INTEGRITY of G1  Black Type"??

Jammie, not wanting to be a 'sore loser'

 "I just get out of bed every morning and brush me teeth"

Guerin contacted NZTR he was that ropable

"when tf are you going to change the rules as per International norms"?

NZTR

"na we're not"!

F***witz

 

If you continue to write fiction then you may end up having to do it elsewhere I.e. not here.

[Yankiwi]

2 hours ago, Thomass said:

NZTR will:

• Ensure that the general provisions and specific guidelines of the whip rule are appropriately updated and can be consistently interpreted and enforced
• Ensure continued guidance and training, particularly for apprentices, on ‘hands and heels’ riding skills to minimise an over-reliance on whip use
• Investigate the availability and practical use of new technology such as whips with data loggers and accelerometers, to provide objective data on whip use during racing."

Use caution with these sorts of things Thomass.

Chief doesn't like it when you expose the racing governing bodies for not doing what they claim they will be doing.

If NZTA, HRNZ or GRNZ says they are going to do something, that's enough to address the problem.

 

[curious]

39 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

If you continue to write fiction then you may end up having to do it elsewhere I.e. not here.

What's the fiction?

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

What's the fiction?

This crap:

On 18/11/2024 at 12:41 PM, Thomass said:

When Matthew Cameron outrageously cheated in the Sistema 2 years ago Guerin had Jammie Richards on who was asked in roundabout terms

"does that relly relly annoy the f*** out of you getting beaten by a downright cheat and severely compromising the INTEGRITY of G1  Black Type"??

Jammie, not wanting to be a 'sore loser'

 "I just get out of bed every morning and brush me teeth"

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Yankiwi said:

Use caution with these sorts of things Thomass.

Chief doesn't like it when you expose the racing governing bodies for not doing what they claim they will be doing.

If NZTA, HRNZ or GRNZ says they are going to do something, that's enough to address the problem.

 

Not at all.  What does annoy the shyte out of me is @Thomass and @Yankiwi making crap up.  That doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever.  

[Murray Fish]

2 hours ago, curious said:

Long since banned.

611 A Rider must not wear spurs in a Flat Race or flat Trial (including a flat jump-out or flat test for
certification purposes)

but can in Au?
"

In Australia, riders can use spurs in racing and other events if they meet certain conditions, including:

• Using blunt spurs that are approved by Racing Australia, a PRA, or the Stewards
• Not using spurs in an excessive, unnecessary, or improper manner "