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[curious]

3 minutes ago, Horseboy said:

I would think emulating success would be a good start.

Agree. Not emulating the failure of NZ metro tracks as Freda is pointing out.

[Horseboy]

1 minute ago, curious said:

Agree. Not emulating the failure of NZ metro tracks as Freda is pointing out.

In what areas do the NZ metro tracks failure where say the Australian ones are more successful?

[curious]

I think you'll find that all NZ metro tracks lose the industry a lot more money per meeting than regional tracks. The reverse is true in Oz where the metro tracks generate funding that assists the regional tracks.

[Horseboy]

What are the top 3 things that need to be changed so that our major metro tracks can generate positive returns?

[mardigras]

6 minutes ago, curious said:

I think you'll find that all NZ metro tracks lose the industry a lot more money per meeting than regional tracks. The reverse is true in Oz where the metro tracks generate funding that assists the regional tracks.

And in accordance with that, the over-riding approach is that the stakemoney distribution at least close to mirrors the relative interest/revenue. We do nothing like that at all.

They don't necessarily need to close those tracks, but equally, they don't need to fund them to the level they do. Get relative to what you earn.

[mardigras]

1 minute ago, Horseboy said:

What are the top 3 things that need to be changed so that our major metro tracks can generate positive returns?

Get funding towards stakes relative to what they generate. Take them out of commission on a cycle, and rebuild them. 

But even then, it is unlikely - as the interest in NZ racing has dwindled to the point whereby none of the tracks make money in the area of NZTR stakemoney funded versus NZTR revenue earned.

[Horseboy]

I'll say this about engaging interest, it can be done - you just need a decent plan and target the right channels.

We have the massive advantage of Australian racing, if no where else in the world cared about racing then it would be an uphill battle.

But we can piggy back, new sports fans are used to having a global appetite and while that can be seen as a negative (ie leakage, focus elsewhere) it also offers an opportunity.

Maybe we can all start by not being so bloody negative about the sport and promoting how great watching a champion run can be...

Everything can be improved and there are no lost battles!

[curious]

21 minutes ago, mardigras said:

Get funding towards stakes relative to what they generate. Take them out of commission on a cycle, and rebuild them. 

But even then, it is unlikely - as the interest in NZ racing has dwindled to the point whereby none of the tracks make money in the area of NZTR stakemoney funded versus NZTR revenue earned.

Yep, that's just fundamental good business sense. It largely works in Oz but here they fund stakes randomly in no relationship to what revenue is generated, often in the reverse of that.  Completely nuts. And we have people advocating to extend such nonsense. No wonder everyone's walking.

[Reefton]

3 hours ago, Horseboy said:

Seems like an interesting idea. What successful racing jurisdiction forgoes major metropolitan tracks?

Can you not sense when someone is taking the piss(particularly in regards the tracks)

[Reefton]

3 hours ago, Horseboy said:

I would think emulating success would be a good start.

Didn't Aus rationalise the amount of tracks years ago?

clearly you are a Messara devotee

In which case I would suggest you read the report again where he says it is impossible to close Aussie courses 'for political reason's' and in the case of the Irish his other example 'it is easier to close a hospital than a racecourse'

Closing small racecourses is a bullshit idea (1) because the big flash metro tracks cannot handle the racing they have now and (2) they cost not a cent to run because it is all voluntary.  

 

[Reefton]

3 hours ago, Brando said:

I haven't read anything in the Messara report that suggests the above.

You can still be a rural dweller, mug punter, and own half a leg of three or four! And you can still be a small club administrator or volunteer; once the industry reaches a concensus on which small West Coast club(s) to keep! ?

Well reread it because that is exactly what it says

And remaining a Club administrator, volunteer, mug punter or owner will only encourage these imbeciles that their ideas were correct.  I will be walking away and saving my money and time.

The big Clubs will piss all the extra money up against the wall in the way they always have done you mark my words.

And as far as the industry reaching a consensus well there is no consensus - the decisions have apparently been made and the Kumara decision is based on that fact that the Minister likes to get on the piss there(and indeed is booked to turn up there in January)

[hesi]

As far as course closures are concerned, Messara just deferred to the NZRB/NZTR/HRNZ/GRNZ Future Venue Plan Joint Working Group

[Dark Beau]

3 hours ago, Horseboy said:

I would think emulating success would be a good start.

Didn't Aus rationalise the amount of tracks years ago?

I don’t think so, at least no more than us. 

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, hesi said:

As far as course closures are concerned, Messara just deferred to the NZRB/NZTR/HRNZ/GRNZ Future Venue Plan Joint Working Group

Did he though?  From what I read he was pretty specific which ones should be shut.

Having said that of course he didn't go to half them and when Bernard was down here a few weeks back he admitted NZTR had input into the report so I suspect my friend Campbell poked his oar in there somewhere.

[Dark Beau]

The trouble with the M report (in my opinion) is that it has the dirty grubby mits of NZTR and Alan Jackson written all over it. 

Rather sad and disappointing.

[Huey]

3 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

The trouble with the M report (in my opinion) is that it has the dirty grubby mits of NZTR and Alan Jackson written all over it. 

Rather sad and disappointing.

Yep and that in itself should have alarm bells ringing. People are very critical of the NZRB but they have not reached the dizzying levels of incompetence and arrogance NZTR have been producing for years.

[Thomass]

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

Did he though?  From what I read he was pretty specific which ones should be shut.

Having said that of course he didn't go to half them and when Bernard was down here a few weeks back he admitted NZTR had input into the report so I suspect my friend Campbell poked his oar in there somewhere.

The problem with your small town attitude...

...was that you hijacked the narrative on a very small part of the report...and turned it into an 'us and them' 

When it was ALWAYS open to discussion around closing certain tracks

Thats why they called for submissions ffs

 

[Reefton]

3 minutes ago, Thomass said:

The problem with your small town attitude...

...was that you hijacked the narrative on a very small part of the report...and turned it into an 'us and them' 

When it was ALWAYS open to discussion around closing certain tracks

Thats why they called for submissions ffs

 

God you are a plonker Thomass

How much consideration of submissions has there been when they have already started closing courses? 

You aren't witless Winston masquerading as Thomass are you?  You talk enough drivel

 

[Thomass]

11 minutes ago, Reefton said:

God you are a plonker Thomass

How much consideration of submissions has there been when they have already started closing courses? 

You aren't witless Winston masquerading as Thomass are you?  You talk enough drivel

 

You should have a picture of Winston Raymond Peters on your wall

Like the Pope...you should kiss his ring everyday...

...and thank him for appointing luminaries such as McKenzie to guide small town minds such as yours...

Just imagine if you'd still be kissing that Guy's ring

[Reefton]

40 minutes ago, Thomass said:

You should have a picture of Winston Raymond Peters on your wall

Like the Pope...you should kiss his ring everyday...

...and thank him for appointing luminaries such as McKenzie to guide small town minds such as yours...

Just imagine if you'd still be kissing that Guy's ring

cuckoo

[Horseboy]

14 hours ago, Reefton said:

Did he though?  From what I read he was pretty specific which ones should be shut.

Having said that of course he didn't go to half them and when Bernard was down here a few weeks back he admitted NZTR had input into the report so I suspect my friend Campbell poked his oar in there somewhere.

If i was a successful Australian Racing administrator coming into this country to produce a report a few things would probably be apparent pretty quickly:
1. The overall structure under the Racing Act is buggered and is about making racing easy for politicians to deal with than it is about providing a positive environment for racing to compete. After talking to the main powers and understanding the relevant political frameworks a new more streamlined structure would be apparent.
2. A country of less than 5 million people who don't have a massive underlying gambling culture is going to struggle to maintain a competitive wagering business unless outsourcing is considered. 
3. Everyone up and down the country agrees they have too many tracks, compared with other racing jurisdictions they have too many tracks. People will argue until they are blue in the face about what tracks aren't or are needed and frankly there is no way you have the time nor local knowledge to adequately assess this. So in typical Aussie negotiating fashion you hit everyone square between the eyes and put every course and club on notice. Now all of a sudden everyone is running around, putting together business plans, consulting the local communities and politicians, generally making their case as to why they should stay. Of course whether you yourself ever believed that 20 odd tracks should be shut isn't really the point. All of a sudden everyone is off their arses asking what the future could look like, rather than complaining about the past.

[mardigras]

12 minutes ago, Horseboy said:

2. A country of less than 5 million people who don't have a massive underlying gambling culture is going to struggle to maintain a competitive wagering business unless outsourcing is considered. 

It seemed capable of being maintained a decade or so back. Business decisions have been responsible for the cost implications - decisions that were made that had little to no effect on revenue, certainly no effect on the surplus between revenue and expenses.

Along with the desire to retain monopoly control of that environment.

Things done differently back then, would not have brought about the need to outsource. Now, it's become the perceived only option.

Edited December 19, 2018 by mardigras

[Freda]

27 minutes ago, Horseboy said:

If i was a successful Australian Racing administrator coming into this country to produce a report a few things would probably be apparent pretty quickly:
1. The overall structure under the Racing Act is buggered and is about making racing easy for politicians to deal with than it is about providing a positive environment for racing to compete. After talking to the main powers and understanding the relevant political frameworks a new more streamlined structure would be apparent.
2. A country of less than 5 million people who don't have a massive underlying gambling culture is going to struggle to maintain a competitive wagering business unless outsourcing is considered. 
3. Everyone up and down the country agrees they have too many tracks, compared with other racing jurisdictions they have too many tracks. People will argue until they are blue in the face about what tracks aren't or are needed and frankly there is no way you have the time nor local knowledge to adequately assess this. So in typical Aussie negotiating fashion you hit everyone square between the eyes and put every course and club on notice. Now all of a sudden everyone is running around, putting together business plans, consulting the local communities and politicians, generally making their case as to why they should stay. Of course whether you yourself ever believed that 20 odd tracks should be shut isn't really the point. All of a sudden everyone is off their arses asking what the future could look like, rather than complaining about the past.

And isn't it great to see everyone odd their areas thinking a out tomorrow....unfortunately it is probably too late. ( I hope not )

[Freda]

Just now, Freda said:

And isn't it great to see everyone off their arses thinking about tomorrow....unfortunately it is probably too late. ( I hope not )

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Freda

[Freda]

Bloody hell....you get the drift...