land grab and spend

[Wingman]

Recently watched Guerin Report after my travelling guests retired and the beauty of My Sky is one can rewind after hearing/seeing something that grabs your attention. Guerin gave an admirable up date on where champion day notables are heading then introduced the new NZTR CEO Matt Ballesty. THIS REALLY GOT MY ATTENTION.

After the usual corporate spiel he said "There are some really big infrastructure issues, especially in the Central Districts. There is some big real estate plays that need to happen and they are in train hopefully in weeks or months".  (I am not bullshitting you, those were his words)  

His next words are. "And we can start to understand what we can do with the funding"  

By his own admission he has been working on the job for a month prior to the official start and that suggests he is working towards a preset agenda.

I had hoped for better, idealistic me, we are heading as an industry that is going to be top North Island heavy, lacking in diversity but will appeal to shallow as a puddle Pollyanna TAB 4 eva types who will not be around next decade; i.e croaked, and the young generation next decade will be saying "how boring.". 

Before you start firing rounds at me, look at the home of thoroughbred racing, England and note how they, generation after generation continue to race at the same tracks. They have massive problems with poorly considered affordability checks, driving wealthy owners and punters towards different gambling arenas or black markets yet selling their race courses is never an option. 

 

[Freda]

I think there have been some tracks that have had their use discontinued but there doesn't seem to be the unholy glee to strip everything away.

They understand tradition.

A very experienced former racing executive said to me once, mess with tradition at your peril.

And across the ditch,  which given our social, political and ethnic similarities is the logical place to look,  they seem to cherish and support their provincial and country meetings. 

[TAB For Ever]

17 hours ago, Wingman said:

Recently watched Guerin Report after my travelling guests retired and the beauty of My Sky is one can rewind after hearing/seeing something that grabs your attention. Guerin gave an admirable up date on where champion day notables are heading then introduced the new NZTR CEO Matt Ballesty. THIS REALLY GOT MY ATTENTION.

After the usual corporate spiel he said "There are some really big infrastructure issues, especially in the Central Districts. There is some big real estate plays that need to happen and they are in train hopefully in weeks or months".  (I am not bullshitting you, those were his words)  

His next words are. "And we can start to understand what we can do with the funding"  

By his own admission he has been working on the job for a month prior to the official start and that suggests he is working towards a preset agenda.

I had hoped for better, idealistic me, we are heading as an industry that is going to be top North Island heavy, lacking in diversity but will appeal to shallow as a puddle Pollyanna TAB 4 eva types who will not be around next decade; i.e croaked, and the young generation next decade will be saying "how boring.". 

Before you start firing rounds at me, look at the home of thoroughbred racing, England and note how they, generation after generation continue to race at the same tracks. They have massive problems with poorly considered affordability checks, driving wealthy owners and punters towards different gambling arenas or black markets yet selling their race courses is never an option. 

 

Don't be a scaredy cat Wingman....the bullies won't hurt you , but please check a few facts about England racing...and maybe Ireland !

This famous and resilient racing area got mentioned in the Messara report a few years back ...maybe you still at Primary school then .

Us oldies may be as shallow as puddles but the water hasn't always wet behind the ears !

Briefly ,England with their far greater population than NZ races 897 meetings on 36 tracks ,including 6 synthetics ,one of which races 58 x times. Ireland runs 357 meetings on 26 x tracks incl 1 x synthetic .

NZ races 321 meetings on 48 x tracks.

England also has 24 jumps only courses so totals 59....16 are mixed  ,when I last counted.

Some of their most famous courses dont race too much.Aintree has a 3 x day carnival plus only 4 other days and can host 73,000 people.

Cheltenham , on tonight races 4 x days in a row in March plus up to 10 other days. These two jumps only.

Doubt if many of these Clubs just run by volunteers.

They thrive cos they do other things like restaurants , outdoor activities and shopping malls...big business !

But hey , don't let the facts get in the way of a good story . 

[Chief Stipe]

21 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Don't be a scaredy cat Wingman....the bullies won't hurt you , but please check a few facts about England racing...and maybe Ireland !

This famous and resilient racing area got mentioned in the Messara report a few years back ...maybe you still at Primary school then .

Us oldies may be as shallow as puddles but the water hasn't always wet behind the ears !

Briefly ,England with their far greater population than NZ races 897 meetings on 36 tracks ,including 6 synthetics ,one of which races 58 x times. Ireland runs 357 meetings on 26 x tracks incl 1 x synthetic .

NZ races 321 meetings on 48 x tracks.

England also has 24 jumps only courses so totals 59....16 are mixed  ,when I last counted.

Some of their most famous courses dont race too much.Aintree has a 3 x day carnival plus only 4 other days and can host 73,000 people.

Cheltenham , on tonight races 4 x days in a row in March plus up to 10 other days. These two jumps only.

Doubt if many of these Clubs just run by volunteers.

They thrive cos they do other things like restaurants , outdoor activities and shopping malls...big business !

But hey , don't let the facts get in the way of a good story . 

How does this post relate to what @Wingman posted?

[Bid]

32 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

England also has 24 jumps only courses so totals 59....16 are mixed  ,when I last counted.

 

Is that courses run under rules or also include p2p courses? 

[Wingman]

35 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

NZ races 321 meetings on 48 x tracks.

I haven't counted the meetings however you are wrong regarding the amount of thoroughbred tracks in NZ, There are 33 plus 4 others that are used only for trials. I have not been creative and added Awapuni and Riccarton to the total as they are alternative tracks at the same venue. That 33 will in the next 2 to 3 years be down to twenty something and the G1 races creep to the north will continue.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Wingman said:

I haven't counted the meetings however you are wrong regarding the amount of thoroughbred tracks in NZ, There are 33 plus 4 others that are used only for trials. I have not been creative and added Awapuni and Riccarton to the total as they are alternative tracks at the same venue. That 33 will in the next 2 to 3 years be down to twenty something and the G1 races creep to the north will continue.

I think TAB was including the likes of Castlepoint.

[TAB For Ever]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

How does this post relate to what @Wingman posted?

Cos he was putting up England as some sort of model to put on a pedestal. 

The Messara report used England and Ireland to point out NZ's inefficiencies.

But I was rushing out and never allowed to adjust to post Messara/ Covid closures .

 

[TAB For Ever]

4 hours ago, Bid said:

Is that courses run under rules or also include p2p courses? 

You can check that , I gotta adjust my numbers for NZ courses which were closed .My NZ numbers were taken from Messara report prior to some being closed ...at last  !!! '

I guess I'd forgot about the recent closures ,which maybe shows how much they missed !

[TAB For Ever]

3 hours ago, curious said:

I think TAB was including the likes of Castlepoint.

Castlepoints infrastructure would match some of those that have been closed !

 

4 hours ago, Wingman said:

I haven't counted the meetings however you are wrong regarding the amount of thoroughbred tracks in NZ, There are 33 plus 4 others that are used only for trials. I have not been creative and added Awapuni and Riccarton to the total as they are alternative tracks at the same venue. That 33 will in the next 2 to 3 years be down to twenty something and the G1 races creep to the north will continue.

Indeed my bad.........I referred to the Messara report while in a rush and indeed quoted the figures before closures .

So your correction does highlight the numbers Messara faced and why he in particular used Ireland to point out NZ's inefficiences.

 

And England tracks are no doubt in much better shape than NZ's ,both their infrastructure and the way they run , plus the popularity of jumping still.

Prior to Messara closures being implicated the countries courses were used as follows.....

 New Zealand    6.7 x times

Ireland                13.7 times

UK                        24.9.

[Huey]

7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Castlepoints infrastructure would match some of those that have been closed !

 

That's only the case because of industry nepotism and neglect, its never been a level playing field , you just have to look at Avondale.

Those making the decisions will sell everything so long as they can keep going, racing is absolutely ruined in this country and will only be in a worse position once the theft of the land begins. No one cares about legacy.

The new CEO is more of the same and probably as clueless as the last 4 or 5 we have had. A race day that stops the nation midweek in this country , speaks volumes for how his reign will be.

[Wingman]

10 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Cos he was putting up England as some sort of model to put on a pedestal.

Get off your pedestal. You come in guns blazing with dodgy/aged data then justify yourself by saying what is quoted above. My comment was not some sort of model but rather showing that in England the courses are sacred, not for sale. And yes because of that way of being, their infrastructure is superior in all facets.

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, Wingman said:

Get off your pedestal. You come in guns blazing with dodgy/aged data then justify yourself by saying what is quoted above. My comment was not some sort of model but rather showing that in England the courses are sacred, not for sale. And yes because of that way of being, their infrastructure is superior in all facets.

Have a look at the York racecourse. Massive land all around it and it is virtually in the middle of the city. York itself has a population about one tenth the size of Auckland and the racecourse has a capacity of 60,000, compared with 10,000 at Ellerslie. I can't imagine them ever selling off all that land. Once it's gone you can never get it back.

It is terribly sad in NZ to see virtually all of the metropolitan tracks selling off large tracts of their land. And the only one who appears to have anything to show for the sell off is Ellerslie, for now. I don't know what the strategy is for the other clubs once they have nothing left to sell off.

[Wingman]

Absolute shambles 🤣

[Chief Stipe]

43 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Have a look at the York racecourse. Massive land all around it and it is virtually in the middle of the city. York itself has a population about one tenth the size of Auckland and the racecourse has a capacity of 60,000, compared with 10,000 at Ellerslie. I can't imagine them ever selling off all that land.

That statement is a little bit embellished.  York racecourse is to the south of the City of York and has predominantly farmland to the south.  Indeed the perimeter of the City is ALL farmland - that perimeter is about 2.5km from the centre of town i.e. the distance between the Auckland CBD and Ellerslie!  Ellerslie has been landlocked by industry and residential housing for a very very long time.  

Within a 25 mile radius of York there is roughly the same population as Auckland.  That distance is the same as between Ellerslie and Pukekohe.

The population of York City is about 200,000 and hasn't grown much at all nor is it likely to.  The population has only grown 2% in 10 years!   

York may have a capacity of 60,000 but when was the last time it had a capacity crowd?  Over the 4 day Ebor festival the total attendance was 77,000.  With the max on one day being 28,000.  The attendees come from all over the UK (pop. approx. 70 million) for that meeting.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

It is terribly sad in NZ to see virtually all of the metropolitan tracks selling off large tracts of their land. And the only one who appears to have anything to show for the sell off is Ellerslie, for now. I don't know what the strategy is for the other clubs once they have nothing left to sell off.

Simply you cannot get a decent return on the capital invested (e.g. land value) to maintain the infrastructure required to hold racing.  Once you pull out of providing training and stabling facilities on a Metro course your options for earning revenue are limited to holding racedays. Given most of the funding from NZTR goes towards Stakes the only source of revenue to maintain your assets comes from raceday attendances and hospitality revenue.  Raceday margins on hospitality would be below industry averages I would assume.