Sports betting tops Racing in February ...

[TAB For Ever]

In 2017 Sports betting was about 25 % of Total.

Slowly but surely Sports has gained ground , but not Racing [ 3 x codes]

In February Racing was flat with 2024  but Sports had nice increase and headed off Racing so + 50% of Total.

[Newmarket]

Interesting…. are overseas punters available to bet on NZ TAB & Betcha? 

[The Centaur]

12 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

In 2017 Sports betting was about 25 % of Total.

Slowly but surely Sports has gained ground , but not Racing [ 3 x codes]

In February Racing was flat with 2024  but Sports had nice increase and headed off Racing so + 50% of Total.

What are you measuring? The net return or actual turnover.

[Chief Stipe]

12 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

In 2017 Sports betting was about 25 % of Total.

Slowly but surely Sports has gained ground , but not Racing [ 3 x codes]

In February Racing was flat with 2024  but Sports had nice increase and headed off Racing so + 50% of Total.

I thought you keep posting that things are going swimmingly?

Where did you get this information from?

[westbrew]

I would be interested to see the numbers, assuming they come from entain somewhere they will be turnover numbers, it was only a matter of time before sport overtook racing, the big question will be when do big revenue  sports like Basketball and Tennis  wake up and say how come we don't get a share of the profits? They get a measly 2.5% of turnover, and a few thousand in pokie grants.     

[Chief Stipe]

39 minutes ago, westbrew said:

the big question will be when do big revenue  sports like Basketball and Tennis  wake up and say how come we don't get a share of the profits? They get a measly 2.5% of turnover, and a few thousand in pokie grants.     

Because there are monopolies and there are monopolies.

[TAB For Ever]

6 hours ago, The Centaur said:

What are you measuring? The net return or actual turnover.

I'm not measuring...just reading numbers off Entain monthly summary.

From memory [ about 2023 ] Sport was about 33% of total bet ,so one half of racing.

So beating Racing in February month quite an achievement IMO .

Maybe suggests with all the advertising , the public finds and understands sports much easier !

[TAB For Ever]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I thought you keep posting that things are going swimmingly?

Where did you get this information from?

NOw now ,

I just reading off Entains monthly report on February 2025 month.

And not a lot of 'big' Sport on so nothing unusual there. There was 29 days in February 2024 but shouldn't be too significant .

A lot of TAB advertising so sport result shows it swimming well !

Maybe the extra account users [ from Entain report] much prefer Sport and being extra cautious with their spend on racing.

IMO the sluggish economy ,uncertainty , job losses , school lunches fiasco , maybe parents had to spend to feed their kids.....and reading the doom and gloom on Racing Social media not encouraging people to do like Brodie.....and UNLOAD !

Still.....its a great time to be involved in Racing.....no time to be down in mouth about Betting Lull.......I can't fix that !

So swimming well...even in stormy sea today !

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

just reading off Entains monthly report on February 2025 month.

Post it here.

[TAB For Ever]

1 hour ago, westbrew said:

I would be interested to see the numbers, assuming they come from entain somewhere they will be turnover numbers, it was only a matter of time before sport overtook racing, the big question will be when do big revenue  sports like Basketball and Tennis  wake up and say how come we don't get a share of the profits? They get a measly 2.5% of turnover, and a few thousand in pokie grants.     

Sport in NZ does very well from TAB ...some minor NZ sports with little to no betting available on their NZ games ,now getting around $1 million into their coffers.

Basketball and Tennis in NZ among the top 5 sports with Rugby ,League and Football. NZ sports got $26 million last year !

NZ Basketball did well......$4.4 million

Ditto NZ Tennis...$1.858 mill

NZ Sports get a % of Turnover on  betting on their sport plus a % of Profit .

Plus when Entain took over ,they got a 'nice' Bonus payout which was much higher than they could of dreamed of !

[TAB For Ever]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Post it here.

Sorry too busy....I still do volunteering in some sports at coalface and overall I treated as useful volunteers should be .....

Maybe a bit of honey would help from you...I dipped out on the Coffee 😃😃

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Sorry too busy....I still do volunteering in some sports at coalface and overall I treated as useful volunteers should be .....

Maybe a bit of honey would help from you...I dipped out on the Coffee 😃😃

You chose to "dip out on the coffee".  

[curious]

1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said:

I'm not measuring...just reading numbers off Entain monthly summary.

From memory [ about 2023 ] Sport was about 33% of total bet ,so one half of racing.

So beating Racing in February month quite an achievement IMO .

Maybe suggests with all the advertising , the public finds and understands sports much easier !

So are those figures you are reporting t/o or GBR?

Edited Wednesday at 05:05 AM by curious

[Newmarket]

17 hours ago, westbrew said:

I would be interested to see the numbers, assuming they come from entain somewhere they will be turnover numbers, it was only a matter of time before sport overtook racing, the big question will be when do big revenue  sports like Basketball and Tennis  wake up and say how come we don't get a share of the profits? They get a measly 2.5% of turnover, and a few thousand in pokie grants.     

Agree…

[Newmarket]

Just imagine NZ being added to this list of countries that geoblock. 
And if it’s so much of a good thing, why have the USA, Australia and the likes not followed? A few questions below for someone to comment on, thanks. 
 

1, Instead of Geoblocking, why can’t NZ Tab allow gambling from overseas punters, surely this would bring better results?

2, Is Entain on track to deliver funds to NZ racing? 
 

3, Will Geoblocking affect online casino gambling also? 
 

I find the thought of this very troubling, it’s like going backwards many years. Imagine if Trademe was the only online platform to purchase from in NZ, would be riots. Funny TAB state one of the reasons they want to Geoblock is they can keep an eye on problem gamblers, crock of shit. 
If they get monopoly, promotions will reduce or stop, take it or leave it style, which I think punters are sick of, that was main reason to open overseas accounts in first place….

[westbrew]

Geo-Blocking will not affect on-line casino license holders, think of it in these terms, there will be one provider to bet on racing and sports TAB/Entain and there will be 15 online casinos to bet with.

[westbrew]

TAB 4 Eva i am interested in your numbers, i have had a look at the annual accounts of TAB NZ where they say they have provided 26.5 million to sport and 225 million to racing. However when i look at note 8 in their accounts it shows distributions to racing community 214.6m and pokie grants to sporting organisations  3.3 million. I assume the difference between what the financials say ie 215m and what the blurb at the start of the report says ie 225m for racing and 26.5m for sport for a total of 251.5m is made up of the 21m which has come from race fields payments from aussie corps ( which is not anything to do with the TAB business, but they are happy to claim it as a distribution made by them) and the rest is a smoke and mirrors payment re gaming duty refunds. Also the pokie money is split 80% racing and 20% sport.

It is clear to me that if racing is getting 225m and sport 26.5m but the turnover is 50/50 as per your Feb number suggests, Racing has well and truly got itself an unsustainable business model, which sometime in the future a Government looking to better fund community sports will tap into.  

[SLB2.0]

15 regulated online casinos. Kiwis can still gamble at any online casino as it stands, and the popular ones (stake, roobet) are to be trusted. I wonder how many playing those casinos still shift to the regulated ones, providing they're not included in the 15.

[westbrew]

NZ Govt will attempt to place a geo block much as Australia does, on all on line casinos outside the licensed 15, there will more than likely be ways around it for the Tech savvy, plus the Big 15 will be allowed to advertise excuse the expression their tits off, so good luck to TAB/Entain vs 15 online casinos. All us old buggers bought up on racing will plug away but the younger crowd I'm not so sure they are invested in racing anymore.  

[TAB For Ever]

11 hours ago, westbrew said:

TAB 4 Eva i am interested in your numbers, i have had a look at the annual accounts of TAB NZ where they say they have provided 26.5 million to sport and 225 million to racing. However when i look at note 8 in their accounts it shows distributions to racing community 214.6m and pokie grants to sporting organisations  3.3 million. I assume the difference between what the financials say ie 215m and what the blurb at the start of the report says ie 225m for racing and 26.5m for sport for a total of 251.5m is made up of the 21m which has come from race fields payments from aussie corps ( which is not anything to do with the TAB business, but they are happy to claim it as a distribution made by them) and the rest is a smoke and mirrors payment re gaming duty refunds. Also the pokie money is split 80% racing and 20% sport.

It is clear to me that if racing is getting 225m and sport 26.5m but the turnover is 50/50 as per your Feb number suggests, Racing has well and truly got itself an unsustainable business model, which sometime in the future a Government looking to better fund community sports will tap into.  

Sorry westbrew but a bit of water flowed under the bridge since I cast my 'cost accountants' eye over several Annual reports/ accounts and joined a few dots. And I never took a lot of notes.

But the reported February turnover surprise is not a regular happening  .Up to recently I believe racing did twice the turnover of sports . And  Racing GBR as a % is twice that of Sport....well it was when I looked at it more closely a couple of years back. Of course since then fixed odds betting % of total has increased and bonus bets etc are rife in Racing.

But NZ sports organisations do pretty well from the TAB.... I have read where they get a set  % commission on all betting on their sport plus a set % of profit on that betting.Plus they received an unexpected 'bonus' when Entain took over in 2023.

I guess one could drill down further , maybe into NZ Sports Organisations minutes to learn more , but those NSO's don't say a lot about this funding in their notes to accounts.

From memory NZ Tennis received nearly $2 mill from TAB in 2023 ,and their total revenue was $2.9 miill so it significant .

[Chief Stipe]

6 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Sorry westbrew but a bit of water flowed under the bridge since I cast my 'cost accountants' eye over several Annual reports/ accounts and joined a few dots. And I never took a lot of notes.

Uh?

6 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

But the reported February turnover surprise is not a regular happening  .Up to recently I believe racing did twice the turnover of sports

Reported where?  I suspect you have made it up.

[westbrew]

I think a lot of sports in NZ get what is for them relatively large sums from the TAB, however the issue really is if Mum and Dad are giving your brother 80$ a week pocket money and you $20 a week pocket money, how long before you tap Mum and Dad up for a better share????

And on a global scale many sports are now waking up to the revenue they can generate on selling the rights to bet on their sports to wagering operators, even if the 4.4m for Basketball is correct, if they used the same formula for Basketball as they do for racing maybe Basketball would get 24.4m   

[Chief Stipe]

55 minutes ago, westbrew said:

And on a global scale many sports are now waking up to the revenue they can generate on selling the rights to bet on their sports to wagering operators, even if the 4.4m for Basketball is correct, if they used the same formula for Basketball as they do for racing maybe Basketball would get 24.4m   

It was a percentage of turnover on the respective sport and that sport needed to have a National Organisation in order to receive the revenue.  As far as I know Racing didn't directly get any of that money except that which wasn't allocated.  Of course there was a contribution to overheads from Sport.

[westbrew]

That is the point chief, Racing is getting the profit ie the unallocated money??? Now that is apparently happening because they owned a thing called the totalisator in the early 1900s, that was then computerised and racing was given all the income generated by the Totalisator agency board to shut out the bookies. Now that has continued since the TAB was set up in the early 50s. Racing no doubt still own the Tote they invented it and still own it, but as far as fixed odds wagering on sport, that isn't owned by TAB, so the reason racing is getting the profit from sports betting is just because they always have. Now with the 50/50 Entain deal in play if a foreign bookmaker can get 50% of the profit what is to stop each sport including racing just getting its own share of the other 50%???? 

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, westbrew said:

That is the point chief, Racing is getting the profit ie the unallocated money???

Seriously @westbrew what major sport doesn't have a National Organisation in NZ?  You are talking loose change that gets reallocated.

6 minutes ago, westbrew said:

Racing no doubt still own the Tote they invented it and still own it, but as far as fixed odds wagering on sport, that isn't owned by TAB, so the reason racing is getting the profit from sports betting is just because they always have.

No that's factually incorrect on a number of points.  Racing does NOT own the TAB nor the platform "the totalisator".  TABNZ is a statutory entity essentially owned by the Government of NZ on behalf of all New Zealanders.  It has a Governance Board that does comprise members from each of the codes (will be interesting to see the legislation changes to get ride GRNZ).

Fixed odds wagering on Sports in NZ is "owned" by TABNZ.  It is the only NZ entity that is legislated to provide that service. 
 

Under the Racing Act TABNZ is obliged to distribute wagering revenue to sports through National Sporting Organisations.  Check out Sections 78 and 79 of the Racing Act.

78Sports betting rules

(1)

TAB NZ may make, amend, and revoke rules providing for the establishment of a system (or systems) of sports betting, and providing for any matter relating to the conduct and operation of sports betting by TAB NZ.

(2)

Without limiting subsection (1), the rules—

(a)

may state the kinds of betting that may be undertaken; and

(b)

may state the circumstances in which—

(i)

a bet may be refunded, and when it may be retained by TAB NZ; or

(ii)

any fixed-odds bets may be laid off on other betting systems by TAB NZ for the purpose of limiting TAB NZ’s exposure on any particular event or events; or

(iii)

TAB NZ may cancel any bet; and

(c)

must state the amounts described in section 84(2).

(3)

TAB NZ must consult Sport and Recreation New Zealand before making, amending, or revoking any rules under subsection (1).

(4)

However, subsection (3) does not apply if TAB NZ and Sport and Recreation New Zealand agree otherwise in any particular case.

(5)

Rules under this section are secondary legislation (see Part 3 of the Legislation Act 2019 for publication requirements).

 

79Agreements with New Zealand national sporting organisations
(1)

TAB NZ may not conduct sports betting on any sporting event or events without the written agreement of the appropriate New Zealand national sporting organisation.
(2)

An agreement entered into under subsection (1) must be on the terms and conditions that are agreed between TAB NZ and the New Zealand national sporting organisation concerned, including payment to the sporting organisation, under section 82(1)(e), of revenue derived from sports betting on the event or events to which the agreement relates.