curious Posted yesterday at 12:17 AM Share Posted yesterday at 12:17 AM 1 hour ago, westbrew said: Racing no doubt still own the Tote they invented it and still own it, What? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westbrew Posted yesterday at 01:55 AM Share Posted yesterday at 01:55 AM Curious I was trying to be diplomatic, as i am aware that for many years in certain circles there has been an argument as to who owns the TAB, the government or the racing clubs, i think even Rodger Douglas was looking to sell it but backed off as he could not get clarity over the ownership position, thus in fairness to racing i have always believed that the clubs who started the Tote in the early 1900s still own the IP which is based within the Jetbet system, As to the ownership of the rest of the Entain run TAB i think it is fair to say that Racing can have no claim on that.....hope that answers your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted yesterday at 05:39 AM Share Posted yesterday at 05:39 AM 3 hours ago, westbrew said: Curious I was trying to be diplomatic, as i am aware that for many years in certain circles there has been an argument as to who owns the TAB, the government or the racing clubs, i think even Rodger Douglas was looking to sell it but backed off as he could not get clarity over the ownership position, thus in fairness to racing i have always believed that the clubs who started the Tote in the early 1900s still own the IP which is based within the Jetbet system, As to the ownership of the rest of the Entain run TAB i think it is fair to say that Racing can have no claim on that.....hope that answers your question. Reading the latest TABNZ annual report Jetbet is long gone. The TAB has always been a statutory entity. The Crown owns it in fact it only exists as long as the Crown permits it to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted yesterday at 07:31 AM Share Posted yesterday at 07:31 AM (edited) 5 hours ago, westbrew said: as i am aware that for many years in certain circles there has been an argument as to who owns the TAB, the government or the racing clubs, lol, there is even a book written about it! Two Over Three on Goodtime Sugar The New Zealand TAB Turns 50 By David Malcolm Grant · 2000 https://www.google.co.nz/books/edition/Two_Over_Three_on_Goodtime_Sugar/yoXj5orq514C?hl=en&gbpv=0 Edited yesterday at 07:32 AM by Murray Fish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted yesterday at 07:34 AM Share Posted yesterday at 07:34 AM 5 hours ago, westbrew said: Jetbet system, one of the Real historical successes from within the NZ Industry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted yesterday at 08:06 AM Share Posted yesterday at 08:06 AM (edited) Just as a matter of fact, the tote was NOT invented by NZRacing. It was invented by Julius Poole in Western Australia, actually for vote counting. It was first installed and used for racing in NZ though, at Ellerslie in 1913. Edited yesterday at 08:08 AM by curious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted yesterday at 08:15 AM Share Posted yesterday at 08:15 AM Sorry, that should have said George Julius, not Julius Poole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westbrew Posted 12 hours ago Share Posted 12 hours ago Thanks Curious, so given that NZ Racing has no claim on the tote, and in reality were just the first ones to use it, they clearly have no right to any income generated by the NZ TAB outside of that generated on the sport of horse racing, so time for the Government to amend the legislation so that each sport receives its share of the 50% profit that entain does not take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 10 hours ago Share Posted 10 hours ago 1 hour ago, westbrew said: Thanks Curious, so given that NZ Racing has no claim on the tote, and in reality were just the first ones to use it, they clearly have no right to any income generated by the NZ TAB outside of that generated on the sport of horse racing, so time for the Government to amend the legislation so that each sport receives its share of the 50% profit that entain does not take. As has been pointed out to you before the legislation exists for Sports to receive profit revenue from the TAB activities related to those sports. However they must have a NSO (National Sporting Organisation) to be eligible. Unless you are arguing that the surplus revenue from Sports that don't have an agreement should be shared by equally or proportionally amongst all three codes and any sport that has an agreement with the TAB. Name one Sport that doesn't have an NSO/agreement with the TAB that has significant revenue that isn't distributed to that Sport? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westbrew Posted 8 hours ago Share Posted 8 hours ago Hang on chief, i know what has been pointed out but to clarify what you are presenting as the money flows from TAB activity, are you are saying that the profit that the TAB generates at the end of its financial year and then passes on to racing is all made from betting on racing???? As the sports have all been paid their profit. I am talking about the dividend paid at the end of the year. The TAB as you say is a state owned body but it does not pay a dividend to the Government it pays it to racing . And if i read what you are saying rite you are saying that this amount of profit at then end of the year is just profit from racing as sports have already been paid all of the profit generated on their individual sport??? What I am saying is yes the national sports organisations are getting a share but only a share not all of the profit made on their individual sport. The balance of the profit made on these sports is part of the profit of the TAB which is then paid to racing. The question is why is racing getting it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 8 hours ago Share Posted 8 hours ago 3 minutes ago, westbrew said: but to clarify what you are presenting as the money flows from TAB activity, are you are saying that the profit that the TAB generates at the end of its financial year and then passes on to racing is all made from betting on racing???? No. Never has been. 3 minutes ago, westbrew said: As the sports have all been paid their profit. Not every sport that is bet on has an NSO or an agreement with the TAB therefore any particulary profits from other sports is put back into the general fund as per the legislation. 4 minutes ago, westbrew said: it does not pay a dividend to the Government it pays it to racing and sport. 5 minutes ago, westbrew said: is yes the national sports organisations are getting a share but only a share not all of the profit made on their individual sport. The balance of the profit made on these sports is part of the profit of the TAB which is then paid to racing. How do you know they are not getting all their profit? 6 minutes ago, westbrew said: The balance of the profit made on these sports is part of the profit of the TAB which is then paid to racing. Again how do you know that? 6 minutes ago, westbrew said: The question is why is racing getting it??? It is in the legislation subject to the specific clauses. Read the Act: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2020/0028/latest/LMS291924.html Particularly Sections - 78-82 and 65, 71-23 and 128. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westbrew Posted 7 hours ago Share Posted 7 hours ago Read the TAB accounts chief Racing got 225m sport got 26m so you are telling me that the TAB generated 225m from racing and 26m from sports, even blind freddy can join the dots on that one. And yes the point is the legislation does allow for what is happening as per the above distribution, but laws can and are regularly changed, and as i stated earlier more and more sports globally are generating cash from betting on their sport, and i will once again bow to your superior knowledge on the subject, but to me the split looks a bit like racing is taking some of sports cake, and maybe some sports administrators may begin to think the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 7 hours ago Share Posted 7 hours ago 2 minutes ago, westbrew said: Read the TAB accounts chief Racing got 225m sport got 26m so you are telling me that the TAB generated 225m from racing and 26m from sports, even blind freddy can join the dots on that one. If you are talking the latest accounts you can't draw any conclusions because the revenue isn't related to profit from turnover. Probably the only relevant Annual accounts is the 2019 Annual Report. Sports Turnover was 26% of total turnover. $10m was paid to Sporting Organisations based on a % of turnover and betting margin earned on their respective sports. You are now saying that is $26m however we don't don't what the total turnover on fixed odds sports was. 26 minutes ago, westbrew said: And yes the point is the legislation does allow for what is happening as per the above distribution, but laws can and are regularly changed, and as i stated earlier more and more sports globally are generating cash from betting on their sport, and i will once again bow to your superior knowledge on the subject, but to me the split looks a bit like racing is taking some of sports cake, and maybe some sports administrators may begin to think the same. I don't disagree that Racing is taking some of the Sports Cake. Whether they are getting a fair share can only be speculated on as we don't know what the agreements are or the individual costs. I'm sure each sporting organisation has the nous to negotiate a deal that is fair to themselves and there are avenues for addressing anything untoward. Don't forget Sporting Organisations have sources of funding that Racing doesn't have. As for "bowing to my superior knowledge" there is no need to play dumb around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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