Standing Starts at Addington - Shocking!

[Brodie]

33 minutes ago, the galah said:

Were yesterdays starts really that bad?

I've just watched them all again i couldn'r see much wrong with them.

Everyone had a chance at a fair start to me?

that major hipster is one switched on standing start horse. The horse,driver and trainer deserve credit for having it beginning so fast as soon as the tapes go.

They were not standing starts!

They were rolling starts at best, with horses well and truly jogging up to the tape

there were horses that are often not great beginners get into full gait very early on, and it is just a lucky dip.

Westview commented it was a timing issue with having to get the races run on exact time by the sound of of it!

Surely it is not that hard to get them organised earlier by a few seconds prior to releasing the tapes
Why is it really only the South Island clubs that have standing starts, as Ozzie and the North Island do not really?

At the end of the day if HRNZ think they are fine and punters think they are good to punt into, then so be it I suppose.

Just shows really where harness racing is currently at, that running to time is far more important than producing a fair product to punt on!

Anything goes with non mobile starts apparently!

The industry will continue to be in trouble if mediocrity is accepted as being fine!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

as i've suggested previously,part of the solution is also in having less horses off the front line on tracks like addington.

well that did appear to help yesterday. they had that little bit more room to swing into a row , and mostly the races got away on an even line. even the junior drivers were reasonably 'lined up' but 3 runners galloped still.

So think better if they were just put behind mobile barrier. 

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Gamma, lol This Sam O’Reilly did he marry Sarah and took her name instead of remaining a Thornley?

Whoops , 😂I'm combining some great harness families there. Yes of course young Sam Thornley , as you say,  winning the trot . the race named in his honour too. and drove the winner a treat to boot. 

only seems like the other day that Sarah was a junior and in these type of races fighting out the finish. Hope she is mending ok this year from her accident. 

[the galah]

8 minutes ago, Brodie said:

They were not standing starts!

They were rolling starts at best, with horses well and truly jogging up to the tape

there were horses that are often not great beginners get into full gait very early on, and it is just a lucky dip.

Westview commented it was a timing issue with having to get the races run on exact time by the sound of of it!

Surely it is not that hard to get them organised earlier by a few seconds prior to releasing the tapes
Why is it really only the South Island clubs that have standing starts, as Ozzie and the North Island do not really?

At the end of the day if HRNZ think they are fine and punters think they are good to punt into, then so be it I suppose.

Just shows really where harness racing is currently at, that running to time is far more important than producing a fair product to punt on!

Anything goes with non mobile starts apparently!

The industry will continue to be in trouble if mediocrity is accepted as being fine!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

doesn't matter whether they are walking or standing at the end of the day,what matters is all horses get a fair start.

like i said earlier,peter lamb got so much criticism,because he tried to stick to the stand (not moving)starts.

i remember too well with mr lamb,your horse stands there ,not moving for 2 minutes,then after 2 minutes of  horses being pulled into postion,while others backed away,another plays up,another backs away,then though and behold he lets them go just when your horse thats stood there for 2 minutes perfectly, moves a wee bit one way,so is off balance and breaks and then you get made unruly.Thats why he got so much criticism.

And races starting on time is very important with the cluttered racing coverage.

The $ invested by australian punters is of such significance and they don't want to be having a bet on a race,only for that race to disappear off the trackside channel because they are a minute or two late.I mean have a bet at a meeting where that happens yourself,and you would soon give up betting on the rest of the races from there.

I mean think about this,you could do the opposite of what some are suggesting ,in all races being mobiles,.Make all races stands and horses,drivers and trainers would all become more accustomed to all races being stands,would be trained better for them and the horses would adapt better to them. That would be better than this chopping and changing ,one start to the next. But that ain't going to happen either.

i remember the days,,when jack mulcahy started the races. He was a very fair man. He wanted everyone to have a fair start and horses were better trained for satnds,because they had to be to get the best results.

but those days are gone,horses just don't seem to be trained as well as they used to be to stand still then go.Maybe its a breeding thing to a degree,maybe its all the chopping and changing from stands to mobiles,but i really do think a lot is the way they are prepared and the time,or lack of,that goes into teaching a horse to stand and then begin. i mean obviously thats a factor as some trainers always have well mannered stand horses and others don't For example the telfers break an awful lot of stands. I guess they just don't focus on teaching that aspect as much as say some like peter davis or mark jones or de fillipi or whoever.

So if you do think all races should be mobiles,what are you going to do with the races that are currently run as handicaps to provide a betting product without hot favorites.

Its all well and good to point out an issue ,but you have to something better to change to.

personally i think a lot comes down to the drivers. Watch sam ottley. Watch her routine most times in the preliminaries.. Punters just have to factor those things when they make an investment. They always have had to previously,i mean i understand as a punter its very frustrating sometimes to see your horse get a bad start,but is it really the starters fault each time?Sometimes for sure it is, but not as much as people make it out to be,in my opinion.

[Brodie]

30 minutes ago, the galah said:

doesn't matter whether they are walking or standing at the end of the day,what matters is all horses get a fair start.

like i said earlier,peter lamb got so much criticism,because he tried to stick to the stand (not moving)starts.

i remember too well with mr lamb,your horse stands there ,not moving for 2 minutes,then after 2 minutes of  horses being pulled into postion,while others backed away,another plays up,another backs away,then though and behold he lets them go just when your horse thats stood there for 2 minutes perfectly, moves a wee bit one way,so is off balance and breaks and then you get made unruly.Thats why he got so much criticism.

And races starting on time is very important with the cluttered racing coverage.

The $ invested by australian punters is of such significance and they don't want to be having a bet on a race,only for that race to disappear off the trackside channel because they are a minute or two late.I mean have a bet at a meeting where that happens yourself,and you would soon give up betting on the rest of the races from there.

I mean think about this,you could do the opposite of what some are suggesting ,in all races being mobiles,.Make all races stands and horses,drivers and trainers would all become more accustomed to all races being stands,would be trained better for them and the horses would adapt better to them. That would be better than this chopping and changing ,one start to the next. But that ain't going to happen either.

i remember the days,,when jack mulcahy started the races. He was a very fair man. He wanted everyone to have a fair start and horses were better trained for satnds,because they had to be to get the best results.

but those days are gone,horses just don't seem to be trained as well as they used to be to stand still then go.Maybe its a breeding thing to a degree,maybe its all the chopping and changing from stands to mobiles,but i really do think a lot is the way they are prepared and the time,or lack of,that goes into teaching a horse to stand and then begin. i mean obviously thats a factor as some trainers always have well mannered stand horses and others don't For example the telfers break an awful lot of stands. I guess they just don't focus on teaching that aspect as much as say some like peter davis or mark jones or de fillipi or whoever.

So if you do think all races should be mobiles,what are you going to do with the races that are currently run as handicaps to provide a betting product without hot favorites.

Its all well and good to point out an issue ,but you have to something better to change to.

personally i think a lot comes down to the drivers. Watch sam ottley. Watch her routine most times in the preliminaries.. Punters just have to factor those things when they make an investment. They always have had to previously,i mean i understand as a punter its very frustrating sometimes to see your horse get a bad start,but is it really the starters fault each time?Sometimes for sure it is, but not as much as people make it out to be,in my opinion.

Galah, not sure about this racing on time thing?

It is more about the starter having the control and not the drivers!!!

Just watched a race on Trackside 1, a standing start for trotters, with several lines of horses.

We need this starter over here as he ensured that every horse was standing totally still before he let them go!

Was a great standing start, he wouldnt be putting up with the crap that we have here, with  nothing like standing starts at all!

Most of the execs at Entain and the CEO Brad Steele are all Ozzies, and they need to get an Ozzie over to get these stands being properly executed.

Reality is Galah,that not all horses do get the same treatment in every standing start in the South Island!

Just pathetic the way they think horses getting a flier cos it is in a run up is a fair standing start!

Watch the replay of race 2 at Albion Park today and you will see that the starters here and Australia are chalk and cheese with the stands

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

Galah, not sure about this racing on time thing?

It is more about the starter having the control and not the drivers!!!

Just watched a race on Trackside 1, a standing start for trotters, with several lines of horses.

We need this starter over here as he ensured that every horse was standing totally still before he let them go!

Was a great standing start, he wouldnt be putting up with the crap that we have here, with  nothing like standing starts at all!

Most of the execs at Entain and the CEO Brad Steele are all Ozzies, and they need to get an Ozzie over to get these stands being properly executed.

Reality is Galah,that not all horses do get the same treatment in every standing start in the South Island!

Just pathetic the way they think horses getting a flier cos it is in a run up is a fair standing start!

Watch the replay of race 2 at Albion Park today and you will see that the starters here and Australia are chalk and cheese with the stands

gammalite would be the expert on those,but i have seen lots of races run from the stands at albion park.

But nearly every race i've seen run from a stand has horses starting off handicaps and 95% seem to be for trotters. 

So obviously queensland run so many for trotters from a stand,compared to their pacers, is because they realise they have to have handicap races to make them a more viable betting proposition.In other words if they ran those races as mobiles with the same horses,the ones off the front wouldn't have much chance. Same reason we have handicaps here .So they recognise as well that not all races can be run as mobiles.

And queensland has a different routine when setting their stands.

The horses turn in and face the right way,then they bring the tapes across the horses off marks.so the horses are standing still for a lot longer than even peter lamb used to.

can you see the big fields at tracks like addington standing there that long?

you have pointed to a routine that does work for that state.. 

The horses over there seem to get used to it and don't play up much.

as gammalite pointed out one time,they even have horses side on off the ur when they say go. While that may help some begin,those horses generally always are disadvantaged in my opinon. I don't know why they allow that myself .

queensland also often  certainly have their share of breakers. Maybe thats a trotting thing for them.

but would that work in new zealnad?

I think no with the current crop of horses being so used to the current routine. But  in the future,yes,but with the proviso that many nz trainers would have to educate their horses better and differently and that any new horse that qualified from a stand would have to prove it could do that.and that would take time to filter through. Maybe they could try it with the trotters first. Having said that ,my guess would be everyone would say,nah,what we had was better anyway..

Edited 3 hours ago by the galah

[Brodie]

46 minutes ago, the galah said:

gammalite would be the expert on those,but i have seen lots of races run from the stands at albion park.

But nearly every race i've seen run from a stand has horses starting off handicaps and 95% seem to be for trotters. 

So obviously queensland run so many for trotters from a stand,compared to their pacers, is because they realise they have to have handicap races to make them a more viable betting proposition.In other words if they ran those races as mobiles with the same horses,the ones off the front wouldn't have much chance. Same reason we have handicaps here .So they recognise as well that not all races can be run as mobiles.

And queensland has a different routine when setting their stands.

The horses turn in and face the right way,then they bring the tapes across the horses off marks.so the horses are standing still for a lot longer than even peter lamb used to.

can you see the big fields at tracks like addington standing there that long?

you have pointed to a routine that does work for that state.. 

The horses over there seem to get used to it and don't play up much.

as gammalite pointed out one time,they even have horses side on off the ur when they say go. While that may help some begin,those horses generally always are disadvantaged in my opinon. I don't know why they allow that myself .

queensland also often  certainly have their share of breakers. Maybe thats a trotting thing for them.

but would that work in new zealnad?

I think no with the current crop of horses being so used to the current routine. But  in the future,yes,but with the proviso that many nz trainers would have to educate their horses better and differently and that any new horse that qualified from a stand would have to prove it could do that.and that would take time to filter through. Maybe they could try it with the trotters first. Having said that ,my guess would be everyone would say,nah,what we had was better anyway..

Galah, so what you are saying is that the trainers nowadays are not as good at disciplining their horses compared to decades ago?

The reality is that the drivers know that they can  get away with having their horses on the move, when the tapes are released by the starter!

Lets watch over the next few weeks as to how these so called standing starts are performed!

The starter has no respect from the drivers, it clearly can be seen.

Will not worry the TAB but I am going to boycott the sprint so called stands as it is just pure gambling and you can not predict who gets the advantage.

Would you not think that someone from HRNZ would come out and say something, but highly doubt they will because they are aware that they are not stands, and poorly executed.

[Brodie]

Well done to “ The Box Seat” today that debated about the 2000m stands at Addington!

Michael Guerin brought it up and good discussion.

Brittany Graham stated that the stands that they actually have in Ozzie, the horses have to STAND!!

they discussed that if you draw the few inside spots over 2000m is a major disadvsntage and hard to win from.

They discussed the horses on the charge getting a huge advantage.

Could Brodie suggest to HRNZ and their starter, that if they card it as a standing starts, then make the horses STAND!!

Current situation of how they are being allowed to happen is extremely poor, and if HRNZ thinks it is acceptable then it shows that we are not in good hands!!

Edited 2 hours ago by Brodie

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Well done to “ The Box Seat” today that debated about the 2000m stands at Addington!

Michael Guerin brought it up and good discussion.

Brittany Graham stated that the stands that they actually have in Ozzie, the horses have to STAND!!

they discussed that if you draw the few inside spots over 2000m is a major disadvsntage and hard to win from.

They discussed the horses on the charge getting a huge advantage.

Could Brodie suggest to HRNZ and their starter, that if they card it as a standing starts, then make the horses STAND!!

Current situation of how they are being allowed to happen is extremely poor, and if HRNZ thinks it is acceptable then it shows that we are not in good hands!!

yes,i watched the box seat tonight.

i'm not a regular viwer but might do so more and did think its content was good.These days they seem to be more in tune with what the average harness follower considers interesting and in the right doses.The presenters are all good and a good combination,even micky g's input.In my opinion.

Edited 1 hour ago by the galah