curious Posted Wednesday at 11:35 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 11:35 PM 43 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Mostly what Colin Whiteman is banging on about. Yeah great for raising an issue that others presented to him but what he has said and done since is mostly BS and conspiracy. It just divides and adds nothing at all. Actually it is worse because he and his ilk tend to take others along with them and they become a rabid chorus of disenfranchised all barking up the wrong tree. What has he done since that concerns you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted yesterday at 01:22 AM Share Posted yesterday at 01:22 AM 1 hour ago, curious said: What has he done since that concerns you? Whiteman aka @Transparency has abused a number of stakeholders on Facebook including trainers, owners, track staff, NZTR to name a few. Everyone that started at the last Riccarton AWT meeting copped a disgraceful serve from him. Such that Tony Pike was moved to reply in defence of his two yr old stakes winner. Whiteman accused Lindsay the owner of being a disgusting mercenary who had no care for the welfare of his horse. The irony of course is that is who bought a half share in Pivotal Ten off him and wined and dined him at the KiwiB trough as he would call it. Further he has made nonsense claims about the AWT tracks and their design further highlighting his ignorance on the subject. Not to mention his baseless in fact tirades against the Hastings track. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted yesterday at 01:33 AM Share Posted yesterday at 01:33 AM 9 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Whiteman aka @Transparency has abused a number of stakeholders on Facebook including trainers, owners, track staff, NZTR to name a few. Everyone that started at the last Riccarton AWT meeting copped a disgraceful serve from him. Such that Tony Pike was moved to reply in defence of his two yr old stakes winner. Whiteman accused Lindsay the owner of being a disgusting mercenary who had no care for the welfare of his horse. The irony of course is that is who bought a half share in Pivotal Ten off him and wined and dined him at the KiwiB trough as he would call it. Further he has made nonsense claims about the AWT tracks and their design further highlighting his ignorance on the subject. Not to mention his baseless in fact tirades against the Hastings track. I know what he has said that might upset you and many others, but I was asking what he had done that concerned you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted yesterday at 02:11 AM Share Posted yesterday at 02:11 AM 37 minutes ago, curious said: I know what he has said that might upset you and many others, but I was asking what he had done that concerned you? You what he has said doesn't cause you concern? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted yesterday at 02:30 AM Share Posted yesterday at 02:30 AM 16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: You what he has said doesn't cause you concern? A lot of what he says concerns me but you said "what he has said and done since is mostly BS and conspiracy". I am wondering what he has done that worries you. To me, that has only been constructive and shown initiative to remedy some problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted yesterday at 02:47 AM Share Posted yesterday at 02:47 AM 15 minutes ago, curious said: A lot of what he says concerns me but you said "what he has said and done since is mostly BS and conspiracy". I am wondering what he has done that worries you. To me, that has only been constructive and shown initiative to remedy some problems. Your part of the problem, can you not see the ones complaining about poly tracks are making it hard for others? Weight man needs to shut up, let others make their own decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted yesterday at 02:53 AM Share Posted yesterday at 02:53 AM Why am I part of the problem? As far as I can see others do make their own decisions. I've won several races on it. Freda's just won another one. What's wrong with that in your mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted yesterday at 03:53 AM Share Posted yesterday at 03:53 AM 57 minutes ago, curious said: Why am I part of the problem? As far as I can see others do make their own decisions. I've won several races on it. Freda's just won another one. What's wrong with that in your mind? Well, the 2 of you and Wrightman have always seen the negatives in the poly tracks…. Just have a look at your previous posts on it. It’s been a good day of racing for mine, yes some don’t handle it as well, but that’s part of racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted yesterday at 04:06 AM Share Posted yesterday at 04:06 AM (edited) 15 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Well, the 2 of you and Wrightman have always seen the negatives in the poly tracks…. Just have a look at your previous posts on it. It’s been a good day of racing for mine, yes some don’t handle it as well, but that’s part of racing. I have always seen the positives if you can read. I raced on it a fortnight ago and tried to buy one just this week specifically to race on it. I sent my first horse in 20 years to the SI as soon as I was confident the then new Riccarton one was OK to train and race on. I think if there is a problem, it's in your head. The only problem I have with them is the shocking and dangerous state they have been allowed to get into due to a severe lack of timely and appropriate maintenance. Edited yesterday at 04:09 AM by curious 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 9 hours ago Share Posted 9 hours ago 18 hours ago, curious said: I am wondering what he has done that worries you. To me, that has only been constructive and shown initiative to remedy some problems. His misinformation about the track design and implementation for one. He is either misinformed or deliberately talking BS. As for being constructive he has been far from it. I don't find rabble rousing as constructive. Do you really think that calling a owner and trainer mercenaries by and suggesting they put their horses at risk on a perfectly safe track - constructive? The reality is he was oblivious to the issues until people such as yourself provided the information to him. Where was HE @Transparency when the issue was evolving? What did HE do to arrest the evolution of the problem? What were the Riccarton trainers doing? Cowering from the likes of @Pitman and Mills? I raised the maintenance issue on BOAY well before the AWT was built. If I'd been on the ground at Riccarton with an interest in a horse I'd have been checking regularly that the required maintenance work was being done. What I don't get is how trainers just put up with the issues that fundamentally affect them the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted 7 hours ago Share Posted 7 hours ago 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: What I don't get is how trainers just put up with the issues that fundamentally affect them the most. If this is always the case, I don't understand it either. Human nature was to the fore during Covid and it sure brought out the nastiness in some. God forbid you have a different view point. I think there are trainers who have voted with their feet but, there are definitely consequences of doing so. I don't think anyone should cower to the few you mention who were both pro-AWT at Riccarton. However, it's a bit like the corner shop taking on the supermarket, and I get it, some trainers just want to train rather than argue with an un-equine. If the AWT's are as safe as houses, share the proof, the research and report has probably cost plenty. I don't think such a request is unreasonable if paid for with industry money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted 7 hours ago Share Posted 7 hours ago 33 minutes ago, Special Agent said: some trainers just want to train rather than argue with an un-equine. Non-equine maybe better English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted 6 hours ago Share Posted 6 hours ago (edited) 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: What I don't get is how trainers just put up with the issues that fundamentally affect them the most. I think you'll find that some are or have done, possibly including a high profile one you know well. They have mostly either been ignored or in that case and others threatened, and told to shut up. The TA are trying at present but the rest of us await a report or minutes from their recent meeting with NZTR. Edited 6 hours ago by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted 6 hours ago Share Posted 6 hours ago 6 minutes ago, curious said: The TA are trying at present but the rest of us await a report or minutes from their recent meeting with NZTR. So why are we still waiting?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 6 hours ago Share Posted 6 hours ago 1 hour ago, Special Agent said: If the AWT's are as safe as houses, share the proof, the research and report has probably cost plenty. I don't think such a request is unreasonable if paid for with industry money. The point is as you know no track is "as safe as house". The safety of the AWT's from a fundamental design perspective is proven is it not? The issue has and has always been are they or were they being maintained correctly. The answer is clear that at Riccarton at least they weren't as evident from photos I saw from @curious. It is also clear that insufficient resources (staff, machinery) and training was provided to maintain them correctly. I doubt a report on the AWT safety is going show anything more than that. Therefore the real issue is what processes, resources and systems are going to be put in place to ensure that maintainance is done properly. Not to mention the funding to do it. Neither Awapuni nor Riccarton have the financial resources to look after them and they don't make enough revenue to be self-funding. So sure get your report and pull it to pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted 5 hours ago Share Posted 5 hours ago 48 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: So sure get your report and pull it to pieces. I know you own this site and I thank you for it but, you have got one hell of an attitude towards anyone who comments or asks a question you don't agree with, much the same as what is thrown at trainers who dare to question. Evidence from all around the world on synthetic tracks and how to maintain them has been presented by the Trainers' Association but no one wants to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted 5 hours ago Share Posted 5 hours ago 6 minutes ago, Special Agent said: I know you own this site and I thank you for it but, you have got one hell of an attitude towards anyone who comments or asks a question you don't agree with, much the same as what is thrown at trainers who dare to question. Evidence from all around the world on synthetic tracks and how to maintain them has been presented by the Trainers' Association but no one wants to know. Well I'd like to know. I want to see both the T.A / NZTR presentation and the Kentucky report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 5 hours ago Share Posted 5 hours ago 18 minutes ago, Freda said: Well I'd like to know. I want to see both the T.A / NZTR presentation and the Kentucky report. What will you do with it? As you say you're not a track expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 5 hours ago Share Posted 5 hours ago 27 minutes ago, Special Agent said: Evidence from all around the world on synthetic tracks and how to maintain them has been presented by the Trainers' Association but no one wants to know. Really by the Trainers Association? Where were they BEFORE the problem arose? Who may I ask are the track experts on the Trainers Association? Was the Cambridge Jockey Club consulted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Really by the Trainers Association? Where were they BEFORE the problem arose? What were they supposed to do before the problem became apparent? 4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Who may I ask are the track experts on the Trainers Association? I don't think there are any. @Special Agent said they conveyed information from global experts to NZTR. 6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Was the Cambridge Jockey Club consulted? By whom about what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 1 hour ago, Wingman said: So why are we still waiting?? Good question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: What will you do with it? As you say you're not a track expert. I think most participants will make their own decisions about what to do with the findings once they see and digest them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 3 hours ago Share Posted 3 hours ago 1 hour ago, curious said: What were they supposed to do before the problem became apparent? The problem was there from Day 1 in terms of insufficient maintenance. Why weren't questions asked about who was doing what and how was was being funded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 3 hours ago Share Posted 3 hours ago 1 hour ago, curious said: I don't think there are any. @Special Agent said they conveyed information from global experts to NZTR. By whom about what? So weren't these "Global Experts" consulted BEFORE the AWT track was put in? If they were then isn't it obvious that either the implementation and/or maintenance was wrong? With regard to Cambridge has there been a problem there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 3 hours ago Share Posted 3 hours ago 1 hour ago, curious said: I think most participants will make their own decisions about what to do with the findings once they see and digest them. Which quite frankly will be nothing constructive UNLESS there is an assurance to maintain these tracks. Then participants will, albeit belatedly, demand action when the required regular maintenance hasn't taken place. FFS you don't need to be a rocket scientist or a track specialist to know that the Poly-Fill became unevenly distributed and in places non existent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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