Boys Get Paid (BGP) Wings Clipped?

[Chief Stipe]

The word is that the BGP may have run its course.  The managers have run out of puff and Ellerslie wants their hospitality rooms back for other promotions.

The next Karaka Millions night will be the last with special privileges and they won't be there Champions Day.

[Tragedy Beat]

Good!

[Chief Stipe]

40 minutes ago, Tragedy Beat said:

Good!

Just out of interest.  Why do you think it is "Good"?

[Huey]

Who used who the most? 

Ellerslie or BGP crowd?

[Chief Stipe]

39 minutes ago, Huey said:

Who used who the most? 

Ellerslie or BGP crowd?

The TAB didn't mind.  Weren't they always in front on the ledger?

[Huey]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

The TAB didn't mind.  Weren't they always in front on the ledger?

Yes they certainly did well out of them, its odd they haven't attempted to assist with keeping it all going?

[Newmarket]

TAB tightening up on all promos etc…. no surprises here. Was always offering over inflated odds and money back….

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Huey said:

Yes they certainly did well out of them, its odd they haven't attempted to assist with keeping it all going?

Like most things nowadays no stamina.

Let's face it @Huey you're still hanging in there on your Lazy Boy.

[Huey]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Like most things nowadays no stamina.

Let's face it @Huey you're still hanging in there on your Lazy Boy.

Yes but not wagering anything close to what this crowd was.

Still interesting to know what happened.

[Special Agent]

We are only seeing one side of it.  Maybe the Boys Get Paid were being demanding.  It seems strange to drop large turnovers like a hot potato.

Love or hate whatever promos and groups that come into this sphere, we have been made well aware that we have to have very active punting to keep us all in a job, whether it's from a Lazy Boy, a Pub TAB or under the loud speaker at a racecourse.

Every day I'm told by someone that racing is nearly finished.  So many bad past decisions, so many looking to line their own pockets etc.

You'd wonder how such an important and vibrant industry has come to this.

[Chief Stipe]

41 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Every day I'm told by someone that racing is nearly finished.  So many bad past decisions, so many looking to line their own pockets etc.

You'd wonder how such an important and vibrant industry has come to this.

What are you doing about it?

[curious]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

What are you doing about it?

That's a fair question but I'd say not too many are doing more than @Special Agent

[Chief Stipe]

56 minutes ago, curious said:

That's a fair question but I'd say not too many are doing more than @Special Agent

I didn't ask you.

[hesi]

7 hours ago, Special Agent said:

We are only seeing one side of it.  Maybe the Boys Get Paid were being demanding.  It seems strange to drop large turnovers like a hot potato.

Love or hate whatever promos and groups that come into this sphere, we have been made well aware that we have to have very active punting to keep us all in a job, whether it's from a Lazy Boy, a Pub TAB or under the loud speaker at a racecourse.

Every day I'm told by someone that racing is nearly finished.  So many bad past decisions, so many looking to line their own pockets etc.

You'd wonder how such an important and vibrant industry has come to this.

Interesting comment, and until Entain came along and threw the industry a 5 year lifeline, I would have agreed with you.  A 70 mil payout in 22/23 to thoroughbred would have dropped to about 50 mil in 23/24 instead if going up over 90 mil, such was the state of progress data.

I don't agree with the way a lot of that money is being used and don't understand this fascination with top end stakes.

But you have to look back to the 90's, to find out why this all started going downhill.

Pre that time, Racing had it mainly to themselves as far as entertainment and expendable dollar.  In came casinos, Lotto and sports, all offering other forms of entertainment and gambling.

Racing didn't compete to retain market share, because it couldn't because it is not set up to and slowly but surely we saw a decline.

 

[Huey]

On 23/09/2025 at 7:14 PM, hesi said:

Interesting comment, and until Entain came along and threw the industry a 5 year lifeline, I would have agreed with you.  A 70 mil payout in 22/23 to thoroughbred would have dropped to about 50 mil in 23/24 instead if going up over 90 mil, such was the state of progress data.

I don't agree with the way a lot of that money is being used and don't understand this fascination with top end stakes.

But you have to look back to the 90's, to find out why this all started going downhill.

Pre that time, Racing had it mainly to themselves as far as entertainment and expendable dollar.  In came casinos, Lotto and sports, all offering other forms of entertainment and gambling.

Racing didn't compete to retain market share, because it couldn't because it is not set up to and slowly but surely we saw a decline.

 

It was infiltrated by a bunch of no hopers who haven't a shroud of real interest in the sport, that was the first problem, then it let them make decisions and finally let them proliferate with the old deadwood of the sport and it's been a sticky slope ever since. 

[TAB For Ever]

A lot of old favourites have gone into decline.

Workingmens Clubs ...only 3 x left in South Island now ,and bowls clubs started folding too before they saw they needed things to change !

Horse racing is so bloody boring , always was but little else to follow and it was all you old dogs could bet on ,a half decent double could get you a deposit on a house !

Rare today ,and the young ones much prefer to dabble on Sports.

And participants love to blame the admin folk but it wasn't them who behaved badly and got the industry such a bad rating among the general public !

[hesi]

2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

A lot of old favourites have gone into decline.

Workingmens Clubs ...only 3 x left in South Island now ,and bowls clubs started folding too before they saw they needed things to change !

Horse racing is so bloody boring , always was but little else to follow and it was all you old dogs could bet on ,a half decent double could get you a deposit on a house !

Rare today ,and the young ones much prefer to dabble on Sports.

And participants love to blame the admin folk but it wasn't them who behaved badly and got the industry such a bad rating among the general public !

I came across some NZ consumer market research 10-15 years ago, I wish I could find it again, but it does emphasize your point.

In a nutshell it said that they did not bet because they had the perception they were at a disadvantage compared to people in the industry.  The only positive to come out, was that a day at the races was perceived very well.  The closest parallel to that is I guess, insider trading on the stock market

As an example of what Racing were up against.  With Lotto, a certain percentage of every dollar spent by the public was automatically deducted to go into a marketing fund.  This allowed for major advertising on mainstream media that built the 'brand' Lotto to the extent it has become a major part of the NZ psyche.

NZ Racing tried to copy it with Triple Trio, but it was a rank failure

 

[Huey]

8 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

A lot of old favourites have gone into decline.

Workingmens Clubs ...only 3 x left in South Island now ,and bowls clubs started folding too before they saw they needed things to change !

Horse racing is so bloody boring , always was but little else to follow and it was all you old dogs could bet on ,a half decent double could get you a deposit on a house !

Rare today ,and the young ones much prefer to dabble on Sports.

And participants love to blame the admin folk but it wasn't them who behaved badly and got the industry such a bad rating among the general public !

Which club are on the rise these days?

All sport appears to be suffering.

[Nowornever]

8 hours ago, Huey said:

Which club are on the rise these days?

Methven Trotting Club

[TAB For Ever]

20 hours ago, hesi said:

I came across some NZ consumer market research 10-15 years ago, I wish I could find it again, but it does emphasize your point.

In a nutshell it said that they did not bet because they had the perception they were at a disadvantage compared to people in the industry.  The only positive to come out, was that a day at the races was perceived very well.  The closest parallel to that is I guess, insider trading on the stock market

As an example of what Racing were up against.  With Lotto, a certain percentage of every dollar spent by the public was automatically deducted to go into a marketing fund.  This allowed for major advertising on mainstream media that built the 'brand' Lotto to the extent it has become a major part of the NZ psyche.

NZ Racing tried to copy it with Triple Trio, but it was a rank failure

 

You probably refer to a Nielsen Research project about 2010 on the 6 main sports in NZ and what Kiwis impression of them was !

Each of the 6 x sports including racing were marked by Kiwis on 13 x attributes , on things such as honesty ,integrity ,drug use etc....racing finished bottom rated in 11 of the 13.

But worst of all was the fact that only 16 % of Kiwi respondents had a positive overall impression of racing and wagering.

That result sped up the introduction of the RIU [ Racing Integrity Unit ]

[curious]

21 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

You probably refer to a Nielsen Research project about 2010 on the 6 main sports in NZ and what Kiwis impression of them was !

Each of the 6 x sports including racing were marked by Kiwis on 13 x attributes , on things such as honesty ,integrity ,drug use etc....racing finished bottom rated in 11 of the 13.

But worst of all was the fact that only 16 % of Kiwi respondents had a positive overall impression of racing and wagering.

That result sped up the introduction of the RIU [ Racing Integrity Unit ]

Do you think that has helped if that survey were run again today? I'd suspect it would be worse.

[hesi]

30 minutes ago, curious said:

Do you think that has helped if that survey were run again today? I'd suspect it would be worse.

In general, you raise a good point.

Racing virtually never does market research to find out what the public thinks of it, so any changes made are just fire away and hope.

Marketing 101 says, find out what the customer thinks about your product, adapt the product if need be and promote and market accordingly.

I doubt this has ever been done in racing in NZ.

The same principles and modus operandi would apply to animal welfare

[hesi]

1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said:

You probably refer to a Nielsen Research project about 2010 on the 6 main sports in NZ and what Kiwis impression of them was !

Each of the 6 x sports including racing were marked by Kiwis on 13 x attributes , on things such as honesty ,integrity ,drug use etc....racing finished bottom rated in 11 of the 13.

But worst of all was the fact that only 16 % of Kiwi respondents had a positive overall impression of racing and wagering.

That result sped up the introduction of the RIU [ Racing Integrity Unit ]

Could well have been date seems about right.  I'm familiar with Nielsens from a former life.  They were God to anyone in the business of marketing a brand.

Did that research also say, that the only thing that was perceived as positive about racing, was a day out at the races.  And look what Weaver did to Ellerslie.

[sarge]

BGP came out of nowhere and have been a positive for racing.

News stories on mainstream media showing racing in a fun and positive light.

All of the marketing dollars available to The TAB couldn’t drum up what BGP achieved.

Did the TAB allow them to place outrageous bets - yes.

Did Ellerslie and other Clubs open their arms willingly to get their participation - yes

Bottom line for mine is that sceptics bark loud however BGP attracted new participants to racing whether that be punting,owning or simply participating in something they’d never done previously.

Who else is actively encouraging this type of involvement successfully ?

 

 

[hesi]

6 minutes ago, sarge said:

BGP came out of nowhere and have been a positive for racing.

News stories on mainstream media showing racing in a fun and positive light.

All of the marketing dollars available to The TAB couldn’t drum up what BGP achieved.

Did the TAB allow them to place outrageous bets - yes.

Did Ellerslie and other Clubs open their arms willingly to get their participation - yes

Bottom line for mine is that sceptics bark loud however BGP attracted new participants to racing whether that be punting,owning or simply participating in something they’d never done previously.

Who else is actively encouraging this type of involvement successfully ?

 

 

Can't really argue with any of that.

Pictures showing racing in a fun and positive light was what Boxing Day/NYD at Ellerslie were all about, when they would get a huge crowd on the infield.

Anyone watching it, would be saying, this is the place to be, and for many that read this site it was