Te Akau (David Ellis) comment on downgrading

[hesi]

However, not all recent developments have been positive. I was genuinely dismayed and saddened to read that the Graded Stakes' Committee has downgraded the Thorndon Mile from Group 1 to Group 2 status. I do believe that such decisions risk causing enormous harm to our racing industry. 

In Australia, for example, the equivalent committee has not met for eight years, ensuring no changes to its black-type programme. Yet here in New Zealand, we are 'doing the right thing' working with the Asian Pattern group and we are thus witnessing the downgrading of races like the Levin Classic – a race whose honour roll includes champions such as Imperatriz (winner), On the Bubbles (second), and I Wish I Win (third) – the latter now widely acclaimed as one of the greatest milers in Australia over the past two seasons.

My plea to NZTR is simple: please reconsider this course. If we continue to diminish the status of our premier races, we risk undermining the very foundation of our industry. We cannot afford to weaken our black-type races if we hope to sustain a vibrant and internationally respected racing scene.

[hesi]

I'm not sure I understand the comment

In Australia, for example, the equivalent committee has not met for eight years, ensuring no changes to its black-type programme. Yet here in New Zealand, we are 'doing the right thing' working with the Asian Pattern group

Edited yesterday at 02:02 PM by hesi

[Freda]

He seems to have sorta missed the point. 

[curious]

10 minutes ago, Freda said:

He seems to have sorta missed the point. 

Agree. Has he not read or understood the APC guidelines and aopproval process?

[curious]

---

❌ Races Not Recognised by the APC

A controversial list of 12–17 races in New South Wales were unilaterally upgraded by Racing Australia and Racing NSW, but rejected by the APC due to procedural violations and lack of a functioning national pattern committee. These include: [A Dozen NS...BloodHorse], [Asian Raci...ist of ...], [Races not...ype status], [No interna...rty dozen’]

• The Invitation (1400m) – proposed Group 2
• Five Diamonds Prelude (1500m) – proposed Listed
• Silver Eagle (1300m) – proposed Group 3
• Reginald Allen Quality (1400m) – proposed Group 3
• St Leger Stakes (2600m) – proposed Group 3
• Tapp-Craig (1400m) – proposed Listed

These races are not recognised internationally, meaning they do not appear in pedigree catalogues like Arion or The Blue Book, and horses winning them do not earn official black-type status.

---

 

The APC has made it clear that any upgrades must be submitted and approved at its annual meeting. Racing Australia has been urged to reinstate a proper pattern committee to align with international standards.

[Huey]

Good to see him thinking about NZ racing in general .... LMAO!

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

Good to see him thinking about NZ racing in general .... LMAO!

Not much brings you joy.  Explain why you are laughing your arse off?

[hesi]

I realise it is pretty hard to prevent, but I presume Huey is making reference to Te Akau racing its best horses in Aus, ultimately at the expense of the quality of fields here

This season Damask Rose, Return to Conquer (out for the year now) and La Dorada

[Chief Stipe]

23 minutes ago, hesi said:

I realise it is pretty hard to prevent, but I presume Huey is making reference to Te Akau racing its best horses in Aus, ultimately at the expense of the quality of fields here

This season Damask Rose, Return to Conquer (out for the year now) and La Dorada

That's only 3 horses that started their respective careers in NZ.  Te Akau have increased their yearly investment in yearlings in order to fill their Cranbourne stables.  Many of those extra yearlings were purchased specifically for Australian clients and the Cranbourne operation.  So the impact has been minimal.

What you also need to remember is that Te Akau taking horses that have obtained Group wins in NZ to OZ and winning at Group level over there stamps the NZ form i.e. helps to keep NZ Group races maintain their status.  Of course conversely that could work the other way where if NZ's don't perform over there.

Ironically though Damask Rose didn't win a Group race in NZ.  La Dorada was well ahead of the two year old pack and deserves her chance to pick up black type in OZ.  She wouldn't have been a Thorndon entry this year in any event.

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

He seems to have sorta missed the point. 

I don't believe he has missed the point.  In fact he is making quite a point regarding the state of black type in Australia.  NSW has been upgrading races to Group 1 without international approval nor in line with guidelines for some time now.  With more in the wind.   For example how can you make a Slot race like The Everest a Group 1.

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, curious said:

---

❌ Races Not Recognised by the APC

A controversial list of 12–17 races in New South Wales were unilaterally upgraded by Racing Australia and Racing NSW, but rejected by the APC due to procedural violations and lack of a functioning national pattern committee. These include: [A Dozen NS...BloodHorse], [Asian Raci...ist of ...], [Races not...ype status], [No interna...rty dozen’]

• The Invitation (1400m) – proposed Group 2
• Five Diamonds Prelude (1500m) – proposed Listed
• Silver Eagle (1300m) – proposed Group 3
• Reginald Allen Quality (1400m) – proposed Group 3
• St Leger Stakes (2600m) – proposed Group 3
• Tapp-Craig (1400m) – proposed Listed

These races are not recognised internationally, meaning they do not appear in pedigree catalogues like Arion or The Blue Book, and horses winning them do not earn official black-type status.

---

 

The APC has made it clear that any upgrades must be submitted and approved at its annual meeting. Racing Australia has been urged to reinstate a proper pattern committee to align with international standards.

Exactly.  At least NZ has been following the guidelines.  I do find it amusing though that some online commentators from Trentham have finally got something to say when the downgrade of the Thorndon has been flagged for quite some time.  These things don't happen overnight.

[hesi]

55 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's only 3 horses that started their respective careers in NZ.  Te Akau have increased their yearly investment in yearlings in order to fill their Cranbourne stables.  Many of those extra yearlings were purchased specifically for Australian clients and the Cranbourne operation.  So the impact has been minimal.

What you also need to remember is that Te Akau taking horses that have obtained Group wins in NZ to OZ and winning at Group level over there stamps the NZ form i.e. helps to keep NZ Group races maintain their status.  Of course conversely that could work the other way where if NZ's don't perform over there.

Ironically though Damask Rose didn't win a Group race in NZ.  La Dorada was well ahead of the two year old pack and deserves her chance to pick up black type in OZ.  She wouldn't have been a Thorndon entry this year in any event.

La Dorada tomorrow at MV

[hesi]

The boosting of top end races, bonus series, bonus races and new $350K races with the extra money from Entain, was, I presume to try and keep more quality horses racing in NZ and reward the owners that did

[Chief Stipe]

42 minutes ago, hesi said:

The boosting of top end races, bonus series, bonus races and new $350K races with the extra money from Entain, was, I presume to try and keep more quality horses racing in NZ and reward the owners that did

Would have been part of the reason but as has been proven time and time again increasing top end stakes doesn't improve much at all.  

The reality is though how many horses have gone to Australia fulltime AFTER starting in New Zealand?  The fact is Australia and Hong Kong compete for the best yearlings and the only local buyer who can compete against them is Te Akau.  @Huey criticises TA constantly but NZ racing would be a lot worse off without them.  Add to that the horses they buy at OZ sales and bring back here that raise the quality.

[curious]

This is just another naive comment by another whale wanting to sustain black type racing which only really benefits breeders, sales companies and catalogue pages. Similar to adding stake money to them to maintain their status as @Chief Stipe says. Doesn't help racing one bit. Be better to get rid of them altogether. 

Why he would think breaking away from the APC and giving them black type labels ourselves could help, beggars belief when they still won't appear as black type on catalogue pages or those delivered by Arion pedigrees anyway, and it would surely do nothing for the credibility of NZ racing or its quality. That has already been diluted enough by the high stake restricted entry slot races.

Edited 17 hours ago by curious

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

Why he would think breaking away from the APC and giving them black type labels ourselves could help, beggars belief when they still won't appear as black type on catalogue pages or those delivered by Arion pedigrees anyway, and it would surely do nothing for the credibility of NZ racing or its quality. That has already been diluted enough by the high stake restricted entry slot races.

Where does David Ellis suggest "breaking away from the APC"?

[curious]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Where does David Ellis suggest "breaking away from the APC"?

In the headpost. He says that following the APC course is meaning the downgrading of these races and asks that NZTR follow a different course doesn't he?

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

In the headpost. He says that following the APC course is meaning the downgrading of these races and asks that NZTR follow a different course doesn't he?

I read it differently.  Perhaps you and @Freda should ask him what he means.  My read is that international recognised status is important and he questions the Australian approach.  

[curious]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I read it differently.  Perhaps you and @Freda should ask him what he means.  My read is that international recognised status is important and he questions the Australian approach.  

Well what do you think he means then when he asks NZTR to take a different course from the current one?

[Chief Stipe]

13 hours ago, curious said:

Well what do you think he means then when he asks NZTR to take a different course from the current one?

I don't know I haven't asked him.  But my guess is that he is suggesting to NZTR that they get their programming and pattern right.  I doubt he is suggesting that NZ lowers their black type standards with just the stroke of a pen.  The savvy bloodstock investor that he is he knows that that ultimately diminishes NZ horse values.

I do know that a number of the big stables aren't all that comfortable with all roads pointing to Ellerslie and nor are they comfortable with that artificial turf surface.  But they also realise that the lack of track maintenance over the years has left no option.

[Freda]

I read it exactly as written...he is annoyed at the downgrade and thinks it will damage the industry.  The downgrade is the logical result of a regressive industry, not the cause of it.  He's just pissed that there is one less Grp 1 to play with.  

[Chief Stipe]

43 minutes ago, Freda said:

I read it exactly as written...he is annoyed at the downgrade and thinks it will damage the industry.  The downgrade is the logical result of a regressive industry, not the cause of it.  He's just pissed that there is one less Grp 1 to play with.  

You are reading it from your perpetual bias of negativity.  Where does the statement explicitly say that the race should stay a Grp 1?

BTW @Freda extra water on a particular part of a track doesn't necessarily make it wetter.  It depends on the field capacity of the soil and its drainage.  

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I don't know I haven't asked him.  But my guess is that he is suggesting to NZTR that they get their programming and pattern right.  I doubt he is suggesting that NZ lowers their black type standards with just the stroke of a pen.  The savvy bloodstock investor that he is he knows that that ultimately diminishes NZ horse values.

I do know that a number of the big stables aren't all that comfortable with all roads pointing to Ellerslie and nor are they comfortable with that artificial turf surface.  But they also realise that the lack of track maintenance over the years has left no option.

The reality is he is annoyed that the easy blacktype his stable/business model picks up in NZ is being diminished or disregarded , that's going to have a detrimental impact on both his stable and business model as time goes by and they are going to have attack Australia with more investment etc.

Something they are already starting to do over there and as I'm sure they are aware there are a lot of big fishes in that pond!