Levin Surplus to Requirements

[Chief Stipe]

46 minutes ago, Huey said:

How much do Otaki pay to have their G1 at Ellerslie?

 

Probably nothing but Ellerslie will probably keep the subsidies.

[Special Agent]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

From what I see if Otaki had the full revenue from the 3 Levin Racing Club racedates giving the a total of 13 then Otaki would probably be profitable. 

 

What do you call full revenue for a raceday rental?

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

What do you call full revenue for a raceday rental?

For a start do Levin pass on to Otaki any of the special NZTR Funding from the following categories:

1. Meeting Type;
2. Venue Category;
3. Race Meeting Compliance;
4. Club Compliance Funding;
5. Event Tier.
   
   If Levin have 3 out of the 13 meetings held at Otaki shouldn't they be paying at a minimum 23% of the costs to maintain the track and facilities?

[curious]

53 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

For a start do Levin pass on to Otaki any of the special NZTR Funding from the following categories:

1. Meeting Type;
2. Venue Category;
3. Race Meeting Compliance;
4. Club Compliance Funding;
5. Event Tier.
   
   If Levin have 3 out of the 13 meetings held at Otaki shouldn't they be paying at a minimum 23% of the costs to maintain the track and facilities?

Otaki have use of their track and facilities 365 days a year to earn revenue. 10k a day for 3 of those days doesn't sound too bad and from what I know is in line with what is commonly paid. Maybe a bit less for industry days. Why you would expect Levin to pass on more of the revenue they earn from those meetings is beyond me. I'm surprised you don't expect them to pay Otaki their oncourse turnover commission as well.

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, curious said:

Otaki have use of their track and facilities 365 days a year to earn revenue. 10k a day for 3 of those days doesn't sound too bad and from what I know is in line with what is commonly paid. Maybe a bit less for industry days. Why you would expect Levin to pass on more of the revenue they earn from those meetings is beyond me. I'm surprised you don't expect them to pay Otaki their oncourse turnover commission as well.

...and we all wonder why CD racing is in such a mess.  Levin run their Jumpouts with the minimum of facilities and ongoing maintenance costs.  Otaki on the other hand have considerably more racing infrastructure to maintain and to a higher level.  $10k to hire a fully functional event venue and core horse racing infrastructure up to raceday standard is well below cost.

The reality is neither Club makes enough money to maintain either venue to a high standard.

[curious]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

  $10k to hire a fully functional event venue and core horse racing infrastructure up to raceday standard is well below cost.

I think that's about market rate as I said. Otaki are not compelled to take it.

What did Otago Jockey Club pay Cromwell the other day or Winton pay Ascot Park earlier?

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

I think that's about market rate as I said. Otaki are not compelled to take it.

It's not "market rate" it's "mates rates"!  If Otaki said no we want more so we can pay our way where does Levin go?  For that matter why does Otaki have a loan from Levin?

[Dark Beau]

22 hours ago, hesi said:

Ironic that today's meeting at Otaki, was once the meeting that became iconic and known as Bayer Classic day, and started at Levin

And bloody good back in the day too.

[Dark Beau]

19 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Considering the funding that Levin gets for their 3 racedays do you think a rental of $10,000 per meeting for the Otaki track and facilities is fair and reasonable? To Otaki?

What's your answer Chief to your own question?

I know for certain that you will have an opinion, as you always do.

[curious]

27 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

It's not "market rate" it's "mates rates"!  If Otaki said no we want more so we can pay our way where does Levin go?  For that matter why does Otaki have a loan from Levin?

What is market rate then? It seems a bit strange to base that in any way on what LRC earns. If I hire that venue for an agreed rate of say $5000 to run an event, it's none of OMRC's business whether that event earns 5k or 20k. That's the nature of hiring.

If I go to the local hire company and hire a digger for the day for say $300, they could care less whether I earn $500 or $2000 from operating it for the day. What I can earn from it has no bearing on the market rate for digger hire.You have a weird way of looking at it.

Edited 16 hours ago by curious

[Dark Beau]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

...and we all wonder why CD racing is in such a mess.  Levin run their Jumpouts with the minimum of facilities and ongoing maintenance costs.  Otaki on the other hand have considerably more racing infrastructure to maintain and to a higher level.  $10k to hire a fully functional event venue and core horse racing infrastructure up to raceday standard is well below cost.

The reality is neither Club makes enough money to maintain either venue to a high standard.

Neither does any other club in the country out of race day income. Some like Auckland have sold everything, so have a "bank of money" from selling the bank [hill] so until that runs out they will be ok but for the rest of the country it wont be so easy.......but there again that's why NZTR led by the former ARC Committeeman Russell Warwick want Avondale, Levin and now obviously Trentham, all sold up for their own good.

Well they can go and get FUCKED.

[curious]

11 minutes ago, Dark Beau said:

What's your answer Chief to your own question?

I know for certain that you will have an opinion, as you always do.

I doubt Otaki earn that from running their own race days there

[curious]

43 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

  For that matter why does Otaki have a loan from Levin?

Because RACE didn't have the money to lend it to them?

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

Neither does any other club in the country out of race day income. Some like Auckland have sold everything, so have a "bank of money" from selling the bank [hill] so until that runs out they will be ok but for the rest of the country it wont be so easy.......but there again that's why NZTR led by the former ARC Committeeman Russell Warwick want Avondale, Levin and now obviously Trentham, all sold up for their own good.

Well they can go and get FUCKED.

OK so you've finally come to the conclusion that under the current model most Clubs can't pay their way.

[Huey]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

...and we all wonder why CD racing is in such a mess.  Levin run their Jumpouts with the minimum of facilities and ongoing maintenance costs.  Otaki on the other hand have considerably more racing infrastructure to maintain and to a higher level.  $10k to hire a fully functional event venue and core horse racing infrastructure up to raceday standard is well below cost.

The reality is neither Club makes enough money to maintain either venue to a high standard.

Why on earth would Levin bother upgrading their facilities to be ignored and misused by the governing body in this country? The latest attempt at their assets is a prime example of this.

NZTR have made such a hash of the so called venue plans they have clubs unwilling to invest in the future due to this very scenario and look where that has got them, they are beyond hopeless - not to mention as the article says NZTR won't even listen or have a conversation about it. 

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

Why on earth would Levin bother upgrading their facilities to be ignored and misused by the governing body in this country? The latest attempt at their assets is a prime example of this.

Why wouldnt they when they can bludge off the track down the road?!  Geez you talk about mafia!!!

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

 

NZTR have made such a hash of the so called venue plans they have clubs unwilling to invest in the future due to this very scenario and look where that has got them, they are beyond hopeless - not to mention as the article says NZTR won't even listen or have a conversation about it. 

Why would NZTR bother investing with a bunch of disparate self interested Clubs who bludge off each other when it suits and have no collective vision?  @Huey you are the problem not the solution.

[Freda]

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

OK so you've finally come to the conclusion that under the current model most Clubs can't pay their way.

That has been the case for the last two decades.  And has been discussed ad infinitum on several forums. In the 90's - and earlier - most clubs did pay their way from racing/ betting revenue.  That has gone west in a big way, the smaller clubs lose less, that's all.  The fact that small clubs are then held up as unnecessary and a drain on the industry is astounding, and shows how out of touch the administration is.  

[Huey]

7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why wouldnt they when they can bludge off the track down the road?!  Geez you talk about mafia!!!

How are they bluging off the track down the road?

They don't have any allocated race dates for their home track, I don't think you understand how this all works @Chief Stipe

[Huey]

7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why would NZTR bother investing with a bunch of disparate self interested Clubs who bludge off each other when it suits and have no collective vision?  @Huey you are the problem not the solution.

That's not how it works @Chief Stipe , NZTR take race dates off clubs, deliberately neglect clubs , attempt to neutralise or hope the volunteer base of the club falls over and then look to come to the industry rescue by stealing the asset.

Under no circumstances should it ever be in the clubs or the industry's best interest to see the asset go to NZTR.

Just because Levin don't have races at their track (likely not their fault) the contribution Levin make to the industry like a few other clubs is still huge and the story NZTR are trying to sell is that they don't contribute to the industry and are surplus to requirements is just downright deceit.

You're on some pretty powerful drugs if you think NZTR are the heroes in all of this.

[Huey]

10 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

OK so you've finally come to the conclusion that under the current model most Clubs can't pay their way.

So whats the solution if most clubs can't pay their own way? Take from the poor and give to the rich who can't pay their own way?

[curious]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

So whats the solution if most clubs can't pay their own way? Take from the poor and give to the rich who can't pay their own way?

You'll probably say it's a bit of an archaic business model, but what about going back to funding clubs based  on their wagering earnings?

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

That has been the case for the last two decades.  And has been discussed ad infinitum on several forums. In the 90's - and earlier - most clubs did pay their way from racing/ betting revenue.  That has gone west in a big way, the smaller clubs lose less, that's all.  The fact that small clubs are then held up as unnecessary and a drain on the industry is astounding, and shows how out of touch the administration is.  

Last two decades?  Yet none of them have done anything to turn things around except expect more handouts?  As for your analysis of the 90's that's not correct either.  The majority of clubs were sitting on their hands and not keeping up with the maintenance of racing infrastructure.  Those chickens are flocking to the roost now!

Those Clubs (big or small) that have racing as their sole source of revenue cannot sustain themselves.  That is reality.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

You'll probably say it's a bit of an archaic business model, but what about going back to funding clubs based  on their wagering earnings?

I have no opinion on whether it is archaic or not however even that model wouldn't generate enough revenue for Clubs to pay their way unless they had significant sources of other revenue.

Clubs have got by on voluntary work and community donations in services and kind.  Hell that is how Hokitika kept going.  My own father through his business invested thousands in his local racecourse because it was his passion and hobby.  That sought of generosity is diminishing rapidly for many valid reasons.

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Huey said:

How are they bluging off the track down the road?

They don't have any allocated race dates for their home track, I don't think you understand how this all works @Chief Stipe

Levin doesn't have the facilities to run their own racedays and would require considerable capital investment to get up to scratch.  Arguably they struggle to maintain what they've got as it is.  

Meanwhile Otaki has to maintain all its facilities and rents to Levin for three days for peppercorns.