Betting figures? What are they?

[Brodie]

Does anyone know what the betting figures are for harness at the moment?

Are any harness meetings actually making money?

Why do they not advise us of the money being put on fixed odds on every meeting, compared to the tote pools?

There is no way on earth they are making money on many meetings with what is going through the tote!!!!

Last  night at Auckland there were tote pools on both win and place for the whole of NZ that was less than what a single household would spend on their mortgage or food bill for a week!!

One race had a bit over $400 in the win pool with a couple of minutes to go!

When the stakes are $17k or more this is a total recipe for disaster, but we are told things are positive??

Anyway must still be plenty of Entain money left for another couple of years and we must be in safe hands, so all is good!

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Brodie

[mikeynz]

Be nice to know all the figures, many of the pools(exotics) are all mostly tote but fixed odds figures ain't about turnover, it's profit, if there is any.

Reality is just don't think harness racing is a popular as it used to be.

I should add the few racing in small fields, good stakes,  are probably doing very well, for now.

Edited 5 hours ago by mikeynz

[Brodie]

It is going to be very interesting to see how the yearling sales go this year?

There is less horses going through the sales than what there used to be in Christchurch so figures may hold up pretty well!

However you would have to wonder whether there are going to be enough buyers prepared to pay the big money for a yearling that wont be racing for a couple of years?

There is no doubt whatsoever that these horses when they race will be racing for stakes that are going to be significantly less than what they are currently racing for!

How much less would only be a guess, but unless things change and they start to manage things properly, I would not be surprised if stakes were half What they are now!

HRNZ need to be speaking to the TAB and get them to be encouraging wagering rather than restricting it badly or things are not going to be flash!

Interesting times indeed!

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

It is going to be very interesting to see how the yearling sales go this year?

There is less horses going through the sales than what there used to be in Christchurch so figures may hold up pretty well!

However you would have to wonder whether there are going to be enough buyers prepared to pay the big money for a yearling that wont be racing for a couple of years?

There is no doubt whatsoever that these horses when they race will be racing for stakes that are going to be significantly less than what they are currently racing for!

How much less would only be a guess, but unless things change and they start to manage things properly, I would not be surprised if stakes were half What they are now!

HRNZ need to be speaking to the TAB and get them to be encouraging wagering rather than restricting it badly or things are not going to be flash!

Interesting times indeed!

don't worry brodie,its not just hrnz and mr steele who's saying everything is on the rise here.

i just watched an interview called campbells comments ,a bloke seemingly well known in australian harness media.

According to campbell's comments, new zealand is on the rise and going enormous.

then just a few moths ago i heard gordon banks saying the exact same thing on a well known american harness podcast.

you know,i listen to people like that and i think to myself,what is wrong with these people.They make out they are  clever and obviously they are in some things,but clearly they are not as smart as they think themselves to be..

Its like these people think that way, because hrnz have upped the all these big stake high end races and their bonuses and then they threw some money to the peasants with the harness 5000 concept.

I mean,even the dumbest fool should realise that doesn't mean harness racing is on the rise and is going enormous.

but no,obviously there are people out there who are just plain dumb as.

maybe its an aussie thing as well.

You know,the dumbest person in the world with  numbers  could have run things and boosted  stakes, with all the money they got from the entain deal.

why that makes anyone think that equates to the industry being on the rise and going enormous,is beyond comprehending..

anyway,If you want an example of what happens when stake money is slashed,then look at the stats i posted about the victotrian harness racing industry,from their annual report in august last year.

every indicator for victorian harness was looking bad.

every single one from number bred, to turnove,r to numbers of industry participants,etc. 

as to the victorian sales,melbourne apg 2024,from the 111 offered,78 sold  for an average$25,731. In 2025from the 60 offered 47 sold for and average of $17202.

the melbourne nutrien 2024. From the 200 offered,126 sold for an average of $32,496,while in 2025,from the 147 offered, 108 sold for an average of $31,894. So the average dropped significantly in 1 sale and just a little in the other,but obviously there was roughly a 25% reduction in numbers  was a factor in masking the level of the decline.i 

its just common sense and logic,that if the stakes do have to be cut in nz in a couple of years,the same trends will play out here.

you mention this years  nz yearling sales.My guess will be things will still play out ok. I

if numbers offered here have been reduced that will artifically mask any decline anyway. Most likely the top end will still sell well and the bottom end struggle.

also,so many people that are still remaining in nz harness racing only think of next year,not the 5 years time when their horses that are being bred and purchased will be racing.

everything that happens in nz harness racing in 2 or 5 years will be self inflicted.

Now whether it be self inflicted small reductions or self inflicted large reuctions,it doesn't change that its self inflicted. People in nz harness racing are going to get the econominc circumstances that they,themselves have participated in creating.

No one shoukld ahve any sympathy for anyone in nz harness racing if tough times do fall on particiapnts in yera sto come.I certainly wouldn't have any.

Now obviously, we all hope its not too bad,but many of us think it will be reductions in everything. 

Personally i still think their are still some factors that will mitigate it turning really bad,but its inevictable it will be reductions.

the scale of any reductions is the unknown factor but it will become evident in the next year or so once the greyhounds are gone and  the first year of geo blocking has played out with the impact of that being better known. ll.l

Then you have the current decison of hrnz to anchor the rest of nz harness to the syrvival of harness rwacing at aleaxandra park and the inpact of that ..

As to turnover figures you mention,transparency seems mostly applied when they want to promote good confidence building news.

We are always hearing media say,turnoverts are up. But as i have said before,any fool should be able to work out,even if income does happen to be up,if you spending at a greater rate then you eat into your cash reserves. So these people who tell us turnovers are mathmatically stupid. And tyhey are right. Many people actually are.But not everyone is.

Edited 47 minutes ago by the galah