Jan turnover numbers

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Shab said:

What tax?

what,are you suggesting the nz government recieve no tax money from  the nz tab/entain?

[Brodie]

What was the guarantee from Entain as to what they were going to be putting into racing stakes at the end of the 5 years?

Probably no guarantee and therefore racing stakes are going to plummet if they are going to be relying on the NZ TAB share!

Entain  never bought 50% of the NZ TAB so that they could help out NZ racing.

They bought in for the Sports and online gambling as that is where they see the big profits and not racing!

Unless someone knows differently then harness racing is going to be in dire straights as there would be very few meetings now where they  make $!

Surely would be beneficial if the CEO of Entain or CEO of HRNZ could actually come out and explain what the go is in 2 years time!!!

[the galah]

49 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

The analysts still have a BUY notice on the stock.  I know at least one BOAY member who bought in at the last low and sold on the last high.  

The biggest threat to ENTAIN and indeed the whole wagering industry is Government seeking a return in the form of taxation.  I imagine  both Australia (Federal and State) and the NZ Government are looking to get a positive return from racing rather than having to subsidise it continually.

 

i suppose you mean a bit like what they did in the uk last year.The racing industry in the uk had been  worried about the tax rates paid by betting providers on horse racing being increased,but after much lobbying the tax rate  stayed the same for racing,but was increased on sports betting and especially on on line casino betting.

 

[the galah]

23 minutes ago, Brodie said:

What was the guarantee from Entain as to what they were going to be putting into racing stakes at the end of the 5 years?

Probably no guarantee and therefore racing stakes are going to plummet if they are going to be relying on the NZ TAB share!

Entain  never bought 50% of the NZ TAB so that they could help out NZ racing.

They bought in for the Sports and online gambling as that is where they see the big profits and not racing!

Unless someone knows differently then harness racing is going to be in dire straights as there would be very few meetings now where they  make $!

Surely would be beneficial if the CEO of Entain or CEO of HRNZ could actually come out and explain what the go is in 2 years time!!!

thats the thing isn't it brodie,i don't see how racing industry leaders could really know exactly how the geo blocking and increase in nz turnovers was going to impact them. They are just guessing and once the guaranted minimums  from entain come off,well all will be revealed as to the quality of management of the industries in recent years. You would have thought caution as relates to spending would have been the wise policy in recent years, but like you,i  fear the harness industry has not managed its finances at all well.. The clocks ticking as to when it will be revealed either way.

Edited 3 hours ago by the galah

[curious]

27 minutes ago, the galah said:

what,are you suggesting the nz government recieve no tax money from  the nz tab/entain?

They don't get any now do they? Unlike in Australia.

[Chief Stipe]

46 minutes ago, the galah said:

what,are you suggesting the nz government recieve no tax money from  the nz tab/entain?

Correct.  NO tax.  ENTAIN is not a NZ company and the NZTAB has never paid income tax.

In ENTAIN's case they haven't made a profit in NZ so why should they pay tax?

[Chief Stipe]

46 minutes ago, Brodie said:

What was the guarantee from Entain as to what they were going to be putting into racing stakes at the end of the 5 years?

Probably no guarantee and therefore racing stakes are going to plummet if they are going to be relying on the NZ TAB share!

 

There is an contractual agreement to split the profits. Up to HRNZ and NZTR where the money goes - stakes, reserves or infrastructure.  However TABNZ are in between ENTAIN and the industry.  

[Chief Stipe]

48 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Entain  never bought 50% of the NZ TAB so that they could help out NZ racing.

They bought ALL of it.  Paid too much for it as it was insolvent.  Essentially they bought a license to operate in NZ.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

it depends what we are discussing.

i was thinking along the lines of what we saw when entain reduced expenditure on certain things last year.

like any business,if profits aren't as high as they want globally or say in australasia,they  look at ways of cutting costs.

That played out last year in nz with some job losses in areas that service the industry for entain and for example, the tab racing club which was a promotional tool for entain,was stopped and that 2.5m annual spend on the industry disappeared.

thats the type of thing i'm thinking of.

 

Why wouldn't they cut costs?  TABNZ and Trackside was being run like an ex-Government Department or QUANGO.  Book making isn't that hard and the majority of it can be done programmatically.  The contracts for the broadcasting were over the top and why wouldn't you put full time employees on contract for piece work?  

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

They bought ALL of it.  Paid too much for it as it was insolvent.  Essentially they bought a license to operate in NZ.

Fair enough Chief! But the profit share is 50% of net!

Not totally sure but lets say the profit is $120m which I think I remember was what it was a year or so ago?

So Entain is going to not be putting all of their $60m into stakes and so the amount available for stakes is going to be half of what the stake money currently is at very best??

I believe that the racing hierarchy here, really don’t understand just how badly affected they are going to be when the Entain money guaranteed is stopped!!!

There is no way on earth that things can be anywhere as good as it currently is and I believe that it will be catastrophic but lets just stay positive for the next couple of years.

Head in the sand mentality at the moment will not have a positive outcome, never will!

Edited 1 hour ago by Brodie

[the galah]

2 hours ago, curious said:

They don't get any now do they? Unlike in Australia.

 

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Correct.  NO tax.  ENTAIN is not a NZ company and the NZTAB has never paid income tax.

In ENTAIN's case they haven't made a profit in NZ so why should they pay tax?

So i get what your saying about  income tax,that it doesn' work the same here as it does in other countries

i think thats the point your making.

but i assume you don't dispute the nz tab is still paying gst and betting levies taxes?

i think thats what you mean although maybe your suggesting they have been phased out as well. It was reported the tab paid 11.1m in taxes in 2024.

Edited 1 hour ago by the galah

[curious]

18 minutes ago, the galah said:

 

So i get what your saying about  income tax,that it doesn' work the same here as it does in other countries

i think thats the point your making.

but i assume you don't dispute the nz tab is still paying gst and betting levies taxes?

i think thats what you mean although maybe your suggesting they have been phased out as well. It was reported the tab paid 11.1m in taxes in 2024.

What betting levies? Do you mean the problem gambling levy?

Edited 59 minutes ago by curious

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why wouldn't they cut costs?  TABNZ and Trackside was being run like an ex-Government Department or QUANGO.  Book making isn't that hard and the majority of it can be done programmatically.  The contracts for the broadcasting were over the top and why wouldn't you put full time employees on contract for piece work?  

 

the point i made was cost cutting can often be related to a company looking to cut costs when profit margins aren't  as good as predicted.

i get what your saying,cost cutting can occur even when that doesn't apply.

but i also gave the example in my previous post of the tab racing club.

 You appear to say"why wouldn't they cut that cost".

Well,when you've heavily publicised something and got 18,000 customers involved,then one day,just as the promotion is taking off,you pull the rug out from under them and say to those 18000 customers,nah,we've changed our minds.

Well thats very poor if they did it for the reasons you give. Hey,maybe your right,maybe that is how entain behave,very poor if it is.I had thought entain may have done it because of the reduced profit in australasia  due to the$100m they have had to set aside for the austrac  fine. 

Edited 36 minutes ago by the galah

[the galah]

23 minutes ago, curious said:

What betting levies? Do you mean the problem gambling levy?

yes