Thomass Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Imagine the likes of Parkes...counted at 40 strikes back in November...having to serve 40 days suspension as he would in France now... Were way out of touch with the rest of the World on this... Its simply disgraceful...and RIU's Godber thinks our rules is better than Arstralia's..yea na France Galop is setting the modern day standard (Image: Racing Photos) France tightens whip rules France Galop has continued its drive to lessen the visible presence of the whip from racing in announcing a new maximum permitted number of five strokes, just two years after coming down from eight to six. The new rules will take effect on March 1, though up to and including March 14 stewards can use their discretion and not sanction a jockey who employs a sixth stroke. The decision was taken on Wednesday by the rules committee, who also took the opportunity to give added definition to the existing rule on raising the arm above the permitted level. The latest instruction is that a jockey cannot lift the elbow above the plane of the shoulders in the action of using their whip. France Galop has long held the opinion that the number of permitted strikes should gradually be reduced in order to improve the image of racing, a belief which has been reinforced since 2016, when becoming one of six founding signatories to a charter for the wellbeing of the horse. A spokesman for the stewards' panel said: "To put this in context, even before we came down from eight to six strikes, there was a feeling among the various international bodies that meet regularly that the aim should be a limit of five. "In full consultation with the Association of Jockeys, we decided together that we would like France to be a leader on this issue and with that aim, and with their agreement, we are now coming down from six to five permitted strikes." The reduction does lead to a greater disparity with the rules in Britain, where the maximum is seven on the flat and eight over jumps, as well as Ireland, which does not employ a numerical limit. British Horseracing Authority head of media Robin Mounsey said: "The BHA's existing whip rules were recently endorsed by the UK Government, which stated it is 'satisfied that the rules in place are sufficient to restrict and limit the use of the whip in horse racing'. "More generally the BHA is aware that the whip continues to be a topic of debate. We are alive to that debate and listening to it with interest. The sport is currently developing an industry-wide welfare strategy which will include further consideration of the use of the whip in British racing." The five-stroke limit brings France into line with the strictest of Europe's major racing jurisdictions in Germany. However, penalties in Germany are far stricter than those elsewhere, with a mandatory 14-day suspension and a loss of prizemoney imposed for a first offence. Sanctions in France, where apprentices are routinely taught that the last to go for their whip is generally the winner of a race, start at a relatively benign €75 and, historically, longer suspensions have been reserved for repeat offenders. That philosophy will continue, although any jockey using more than 10 strokes will now face a much more serious suspension than previously, with a minimum of 11 days for 11 strokes, 12 for 12 and so on, while bans have also been beefed up for infractions between eight and 10 strikes. The spokesman said: "The occasions when a jockey goes over 10 strikes are thankfully rare and in general the jockeys have been extremely conscious of the need to behave responsibly and have already played their full part in modifying behaviour. "They and we want to be seen as leading on this subject and to avoid having rules imposed on them from outside the sport." France's whip rules changes 2000: Jockeys are allowed to use the whip 10 times, down from 12; 2005: Ten comes down to eight; 2017: Eight comes down to six; and 2019: Maximum of five strikes from March 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Beau Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 We had better follow suit before more damage is done or we are too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I think we are too late now....I am staggered to hear the opinions of so many non-racing people who think we just bash the hell out the horses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 For sure...and you can't say "but they're padded" It's based purely on Prima facie...and on the face of it they're right Whats the bet when 2/3 neddys are fighting out the finish in the Derby tomorrow... The guidelines will be thrown out the window and WIN AT ALL COSTS comes into it Just like The Telegraph's first two...who were both illegally whipping their neddys And they're not allowed to protest what a joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 So Coppins is on the wire less today asks Godber...after reading this great site " I see France have reduced whip usage to 5 strikes" Gobder "oh yes, were f in way of sync with the rest of the world on this Dizzy...even Arstralia has 5 but they only charge at 10" More or less verbatim And Dizzy...being the ULTIMATE NZ Racing Journo...arks Gobder "so if Parkes can do 40, win by a nose, and gets to keep the race...and doesn't receive 40 days suspension like France... ..wtf are NZ so far and away...OUT OF TOUCH" If you think he arksed that MOST OBVIOUS OF F IN QUESTION You ain't got much idea about the capacity of NZ journos to arks the BLEEDIN OBVIOUS ffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 So Opee hits his way to another G1 win... 20 Wacks for a baby Reece ill hit anything anywhere anyhow Jones 25 wacks to the runner up Should these two get fined for Chile Abuse...after Animal Abuse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 Corrective textin!! CHILD ABUSE....CHILD!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I am told one club was offered sponsorship if they ran 'no whip' races but have not taken up the offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Very short-sighted of them...which is, I suppose, typical of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopia Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Freda said: Very short-sighted of them...which is, I suppose, typical of things. HaHa Freda...are they are short sighted as about 95% of the riu stewards? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 So Earily got Marty Burns on yesterday...the NZTR 'Racing' man E "were out of touch with the rest of the World ain't we Marty" Very f in perceptive is E B "welllllll, were constantly assessing any live situation as it continues to develop P" Pretty much verbatim... Suit speak for "were relly relly embarrassed about it actually" ffs...the younger generation are refusing to participate in the Thoruoughbred Industry..in their droves ...but NZTR and the RIU continue wth their 'heads in the sand' policy ffs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopia Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 On 12/03/2019 at 3:17 PM, Thomass said: So Opee hits his way to another G1 win... 20 Wacks for a baby Reece ill hit anything anywhere anyhow Jones 25 wacks to the runner up Should these two get fined for Chile Abuse...after Animal Abuse? Just watched the replay of the race 2 at te aroha tommo...Op'ee will have trouble talking his way out of that one! guess the wet bus ticket will be out again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Short-sighted is right Freda. Overdue for change here. As much as some people on this forum bag the "greenies" - I too hate seeing horses beaten throughout a race. I'm happy if we go to 5 strikes or no whips at all. But it needs to be enforced properly. A friend's steed in the other code was beaten recently - by a head - by another horse whose driver bashed it in the straight (twice as many strikes as authorised). Fined a piddly amount (that the owner probably paid anyhow) - got thousands more for the winning stake by cheating. Yes CHEATING. And essentially - the stipes let them cheat. Until they start taking more serious punitive action when the rules are breached (whether those rules are as they as they are or if they are tightened up) - the whole thing's a joke and pays little more than lip service to either animal welfare or fair play. Maybe they need to start taking the races off these horses who are whipped too many times. My bet is that would tidy it up pretty quickly .... J. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 If whips are banned in NZ then horse racing in NZ is finished, end of story! Punters just won’t bother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, Brodie said: If whips are banned in NZ then horse racing in NZ is finished, end of story! Punters just won’t bother! I'd happily bet with no whips allowed at all. I'd expect most would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, mardigras said: I'd happily bet with no whips allowed at all. I'd expect most would. The smaller punters probably would, but the punters that invested the larger amounts wouldn’t bother! With turnovers reduced the profit would be reduced, stakes will reduce and owners wouldn’t bother, therefore racing will be a dead duck! It is struggling already and this would kill it! The larger punters will bet on sports, which is what the TAB wants anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, Brodie said: The smaller punters probably would, but the punters that invested the larger amounts wouldn’t bother! With turnovers reduced the profit would be reduced, stakes will reduce and owners wouldn’t bother, therefore racing will be a dead duck! It is struggling already and this would kill it! The larger punters will bet on sports, which is what the TAB wants anyway! Why. Why wouldn't they bother. What impact do you actually think the whip has? I don't know what you mean by larger punters - and I certainly don't bet with the TAB. My subjective view of the NZ TAB, there wouldn't be any larger punters betting with them. So changing the whip rules would have no effect since they're not there now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, mardigras said: Why. Why wouldn't they bother. What impact do you actually think the whip has? I don't know what you mean by larger punters - and I certainly don't bet with the TAB. My subjective view of the NZ TAB, there wouldn't be any larger punters betting with them. So changing the whip rules would have no effect since they're not there now. They wouldn’t bother because there would be so many horses that do not run without a persuader! I know from harness racing that the whip encouragement makes a helluva difference. Some horses will just not bother trying and therefore the punters that offload bigtime will get the stitch and won’t bother. Gallopers are probably the same although some do just respond better hands and heels! Will this no whip rule have any stipulations in regards to hands and heels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Whatever is decided it needs to be enforced and consistently. What makes you think punters would care? Very quickly those free- running and genuine sorts would come to the fore and the reluctant attendees would be phased out. Harness racing in some Scandinavian countries has banned whips and seems to operate just fine. A look at the recent Cheltenham races shows how ( in some cases, not all..! ) energy and upper-body strength can drive a horse on without needing to cut it in half. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Brodie said: They wouldn’t bother because there would be so many horses that do not run without a persuader! I know from harness racing that the whip encouragement makes a helluva difference. Some horses will just not bother trying and therefore the punters that offload bigtime will get the stitch and won’t bother. Gallopers are probably the same although some do just respond better hands and heels! Will this no whip rule have any stipulations in regards to hands and heels? You know this how? You've done a study on horse response to the whip? Whip causes horses to not run as well. France as per the topic, allow 5 strikes. So 5 strikes makes a difference. Yeah sure. They run for 2 miles and then suddenly they run better/faster because of 5 strikes with the whip. I'm not sure who is kidding who. Our rules are 19th century. Just look at jumps racing here. Horses persevered with that are out of contention and beaten. Edited March 16, 2019 by mardigras 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 14 hours ago, Freda said: Whatever is decided it needs to be enforced and consistently. What makes you think punters would care? Very quickly those free- running and genuine sorts would come to the fore and the reluctant attendees would be phased out. Harness racing in some Scandinavian countries has banned whips and seems to operate just fine. A look at the recent Cheltenham races shows how ( in some cases, not all..! ) energy and upper-body strength can drive a horse on without needing to cut it in half. Exactly.... ...and the less genuine types get bred out.... Some wonder why the young generation DESPISE racing... forget the 'padded' whip concept... ...the reailty is the visual impact of horses being whipped for the entire last 100M... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) And NZTR have a 'special' page on their Welfare site New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing’s vision for thoroughbred welfare “A thoroughbred should be provided a good life, with the care and conditions that will allow the horse to thrive and perform to its natural abilities, with minimal discomfort and an absence of suffering.” New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing recognises that understanding animal welfare perceptions and the actual welfare implications about using whips is a significant matter for thoroughbred racing.The racing community considers that using whips is necessary for: Safety - as a measure to steer the horse and minimise potential collisions and falls Integrity - encouraging due effort from the horse if used when in winning contention or achieving a stakes bearing position. Current rules and guidelines limit whip use and are regularly reviewed in collaboration with the Racing Integrity Unit (RIU), veterinarians and the New Zealand Trainers’ and Jockeys’ Associations.Currently, the whip rule and guidelines state that a rider shall not strike a horse with a whip in a manner or to an extent that is unnecessary, excessive or improper; nor strike a horse forward of its shoulder. Rule 638(3) A Rider shall not: [...] (b) strike a horse with a whip in a manner or to an extent which is: (i) unnecessary (ii) or excessive (iii) or improper. Without affecting the generality of Rule 638(3)(b) a rider may be penalised if their whip use is outside of the following guidelines: Inside the final 600 metres of a Race, official trial or jump-out a horse may be struck with the drawn whip up to five times after which the rider must cease their use of the whip for a minimum of five strides before striking the horse again with the drawn whip, with this restriction to apply prior to the final 100 metres. The whip may then be used at the rider’s discretion until the winning post is reached. Prior to the final 600 metres of a race, official trial or jumpout the use of the drawn whip is acceptable if used in moderation and not continually. Notwithstanding the above it will also be deemed to be unacceptable where a rider uses the drawn whip: • when a horse is out of contention • when a horse is showing no response • when a horse has no reasonable prospect of improving or losing its position • after its chance of winning or being placed is clearly gone • when a horse is clearly winning • after passing the winning post • using the whip with the arm above shoulder height. A rider may at their discretion use the whip with a slapping motion down the shoulder, with the whip hand remaining on the reins, at any time. The current whip has been in use since 2009, and is much wider and more padded than the previous standard, but it makes a much louder noise than its predecessor. Current Whip Old Whip Edited March 17, 2019 by Thomass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 And we could be a World leader by adopting the last paragraph in totality... ..although CWJ would have a field day A rider may at their discretion use the whip with a slapping motion down the shoulder, with the whip hand remaining on the reins, at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 So now the Irish have jumped on board...and were still allowing Parkes to bash a neddy 40 times...win by a nose...and keep the race...ffs The Irish Horse Racing Regulatory Board (IHRB) have confirmed significant changes to whip rules which will come into effect next month. Irish stewards previously used their discretion in determining misuse of the whip with no numerical limit enforced. However, the IHRB released information earlier this month showing a 26 per cent increase in whip rule breaches during 2018 - a total of 213 - from the previous year. The IHRB proposed an eight-strike limit which was passed by their board of directors on Tuesday. “The changes were approved on Tuesday and we'll be publishing the amended rules in the calendar next week. The rule change will be brought in on April 8,” IHRB chief executive Denis Egan told Racing Post. The first Irish meeting under the new rules will take place at Gowran on April 9. The decision of the IHRB to restrict whip usage follows the move of France’s governing body, France Galop, which reduced the permitted level of whip strokes from six to five from March 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.