Thomass Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 One of the most obvious things lost in all of this 'Reform' chat....is the almost complete ignorance of things PUNTING... Yes...the PUNTER is king...without PUNTING the Industry would be running for ribbons...an olde but a goody...wtf knew? And news that the girl's blouses...the TAB..and their 'bookies'...who wear lace blouses.. ...are heavily restricting early betting now... ...you know...those in the know...usually the owners with inside information...who can't 'get on' Now Joe Punter is usually against 'inside info'...but it's what makes the industry interesting...in short...it spins the wheels of 'the game'.... What we need here are as many bookies...especially Course 'rail's bookies...you know...ACTUAL bookies without blouses who TRADE as bookies from Ye olde World... ..laying off exposure...betting bookies....who make this Industry EXCITING...PUNTERS...who fund the industry... Get this part of the equation right and you attract PUNTERS to PUNT... Apply b/s taxes like Point of Consumption and the margins agin the PUNTER make it uncompetitive...where THOROUGBRED PUNTERS simply go elsewhere And if Steph Hunt from the TAB Blouses is reading this... if you ever say "were trading" ever again..the cat gets it...ok?? Trading is what happens on the Sharemarket...you're simply a monopoly Supermarket totally guaranteeing yourself a profit... Theres absolutely NO TRADING going on...just in your head..ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 And what about their cock up on the dogs the other day. Had hot favourite priced and then every other dog at $2000.10 (incorrectly) on the fixed odds. The favourite got into trouble and another won and after a half an hour or so later paid out that price of $2000.10 to those that had got on at that price they posted. And don't forget about them laying off late on the tote which they say they don't do. Yeah right!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 Sounds like a bug in their automated munted systems ATA! Seriously though... ..if these boys were in the Wild West with Wyatt Earp...they would have got their dangles shot off their dongles long ago How can they advertise BIG BETS...accept the good with the bad that comes with that.. Then BAN winners when they start beating the book?? There's got to be a law agin that...Shirley? They don't even do the Supermarket Market thing of 'one bet per customer' ...maybe they could attach a limit of 6 cans of baked beans to every bet... ...so Punters could fart in their general direction post Beans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLB2.0 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, All The Aces said: And what about their cock up on the dogs the other day. Had hot favourite priced and then every other dog at $2000.10 (incorrectly) on the fixed odds. The favourite got into trouble and another won and after a half an hour or so later paid out that price of $2000.10 to those that had got on at that price they posted. And don't forget about them laying off late on the tote which they say they don't do. Yeah right!! I don't believe they have to honour incorrect odds do they? Well.. they haven't when I've spotted an error and tried to cash in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 They did on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLB2.0 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Interesting. Good on them I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Thomass said: One of the most obvious things lost in all of this 'Reform' chat....is the almost complete ignorance of things PUNTING... Yes...the PUNTER is king...without PUNTING the Industry would be running for ribbons...an olde but a goody...wtf knew? And news that the girl's blouses...the TAB..and their 'bookies'...who wear lace blouses.. ...are heavily restricting early betting now... ...you know...those in the know...usually the owners with inside information...who can't 'get on' Now Joe Punter is usually against 'inside info'...but it's what makes the industry interesting...in short...it spins the wheels of 'the game'.... What we need here are as many bookies...especially Course 'rail's bookies...you know...ACTUAL bookies without blouses who TRADE as bookies from Ye olde World... ..laying off exposure...betting bookies....who make this Industry EXCITING...PUNTERS...who fund the industry... Get this part of the equation right and you attract PUNTERS to PUNT... Apply b/s taxes like Point of Consumption and the margins agin the PUNTER make it uncompetitive...where THOROUGBRED PUNTERS simply go elsewhere And if Steph Hunt from the TAB Blouses is reading this... if you ever say "were trading" ever again..the cat gets it...ok?? Trading is what happens on the Sharemarket...you're simply a monopoly Supermarket totally guaranteeing yourself a profit... Theres absolutely NO TRADING going on...just in your head..ok? That's a fair point Thommo and the excessive fees being proposed here in the new legislation are already taking their toll in some Oz jurisdictions and trying to take more from punters, who as you say, will likely shift their interest to other markets is a recipe for disaster. This is just one relatively small bookie but take a look at their figures from the Melbourne carnival which saw them pay more in fees than their profit. But this is what happens when you implement reform strategies that have not been informed by the necessary wagering expertise. https://www.racenet.com.au/news/interesting-developments-in-bookmaking-will-only-hurt-the-punter--again-20190624 A few snips. “As the bulk of the wagering revenue of corporate bookmakers is remitted to racing controlling bodies in the form of fees and taxes, the punter is already indirectly financing much of the additional and copious prizemoney being foisted on World racing's elite during the major carnivals - and what does the punter receive in return? “As a direct consequence of the continuous growth in fees and taxes, the punter is being presented with ever-rising market percentages and, as operators are squeezed out of the market, diminished competition. This can only lead to reducing returns. “If the racing wagering marketplace is to improve and thrive, it is important that racing control bodies come to realise the volume of turnover on their product is already dissipating, and that volume of decline will only increase if current regulatory and taxation trends continue. “With the above in mind, it is inevitable that punters will shift their focus and redirect their 'hard-earned' to other gambling mediums and other wagering marketplaces. This trend is already apparent as we observe the rapid growth in sports betting during the past decade and this should be alarming for racing authorities. Edited June 24, 2019 by curious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 An ancient story about a goose and golden eggs springs to mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 Yep too sadly true... How good would it be with the Boyz Wearing Plaid...surrounding a few rails bookies...chanting at them after a win? After Winn convinced Rita to change from Meter Maid to 'real full time bookies by the rail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 And here's the in depth podcast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 On 24/06/2019 at 12:13 PM, Thomass said: Yes...the PUNTER is king...without PUNTING the Industry would be running for ribbons...an olde but a goody...wtf knew? Fact -the industry is funded by the owners -not the punter For every $100 spent by the owners they get around $20 back [from the punter] -whether they get the $20 or a ribbon matters little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshu Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Totally disagree. For once i agree with the VI, no punters,no racing unless they want to race around hagley park for a nice red ribbon. Prey tell where did you get that figure from , for every 100 dollars spent by owners they get around 20 dollars from the punter?.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 What if you got double back...on the back of Owners bad investments and choices then Fred... ...wouldn't you enjoy a good old tete eh tete down by the rails with a bookie... ...than being restricted by a monopoly TAB without genuine competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 6 hours ago, theshu said: Totally disagree. For once i agree with the VI, no punters,no racing unless they want to race around hagley park for a nice red ribbon. Prey tell where did you get that figure from , for every 100 dollars spent by owners they get around 20 dollars from the punter?.. no punters -no racing ? There are countries, inc the largest by population, with no punters but plenty of racing. It is well documented fact that in NZ prizemoney equals around 20 % of owners expenditure, Check with NZTR if you wish. Most of that 20% comes from punters via the TAB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) Most owners are also punters. Edited June 26, 2019 by All The Aces 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 17 hours ago, Fred said: no punters -no racing ? There are countries, inc the largest by population, with no punters but plenty of racing. It is well documented fact that in NZ prizemoney equals around 20 % of owners expenditure, Check with NZTR if you wish. Most of that 20% comes from punters via the TAB. And without Australian Punters it'd be really dire.... Many patho Punters over there...why else would anyone bet in NZ without Australian quality punting info...change of tactics etc. ...owners like Brian Collins unable to get a simple 200ew on his neddy here.. At least Oz have minimum bet rules Whats your opinion on on course bookies here Fred.. any form of competition... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 I would like to see licensed bookmakers on course -it's about 100 years since there were on course bookies competing against the Tote at Ellerslie and quite a few years since we saw young Waterhouse fielding at Te Rapa. His old man was a true bookie, At Rosehill one day [must have been early seventies] I fancied a Copenhagen horse that had won a few in NZ when fresh, as it was that day. Big Bill had it at 200/1and I put 100 on it and watched to see what effect that had on his pricing, He turned it out to 300/1 ,gave me a smile and said 'you wanna go again?" So I did, then went down the line of others who had followed his lead and were offering 300/1 No cigar -4th beaten noses., or short half heads for the fly blown mob who can't spell noses. I do find the NZ bookies very good and have never had a bet knocked back nor been offered reduced odds -they are better than the Aussies who these days run for cover when frightened with $500 mid-week. But competition would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 Oh yes...didn't Davo Ellis take him to the cleaners that day? Its what's missing here for sure...the BGP's ..and odd Girl...would love them... Betting is what makes this Industry tick obviously...with the suits ignoring that fact... ...they clearly know sfa... Handicaps are where it's at...and why they need to reintroduce MAIDEN HANDICAPS for example... ..for betting purposes If only it were LA MER at 200/1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 No need for handicaps for maidens. But what is ridiculous is the awarding of points for catchweight trials. If there is to be a points rating then it MUST be done on set weights. Catchweight trials should be purely for education .NZTR are plain stupid over this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Agree there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 18 hours ago, Fred said: No need for handicaps for maidens. But what is ridiculous is the awarding of points for catchweight trials. If there is to be a points rating then it MUST be done on set weights. Catchweight trials should be purely for education .NZTR are plain stupid over this. Cmon Fred...it's about the PUNT... Its what spins the wheels and makes the Industry viable.. They do it in old Blighty...after 3 races you get a Handicap rating..and after 4 runs they're eligible to race... ...we could make it 5... ..there's sfa betting in maiden races when you have a Stakesplaced neddy running at level weights to a 20 start maiden... ...it would create far more interest ...and while we're at it...create a new class for 1 win horses...there's plenty in the lower classes to make it happen.. ...make it purely on Saturday meetings...30 start 3 win horses have unfair ring craft agin a 1 win 3 starter for example... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 And while you're there Fred and your sis Freda.. ..not only Maiden Handicaps, rails bookies..but CLAIMING races as well! When was the last one here Fred? These combos will...in totality...undoubtably add something extra to the boring fabric we gave now... especially in Winter just get on the bandwagon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I think the last gallops claiming races were in the 1980's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 Just getting back to the Maiden Handicap races to increase betting.. ...it was advised in the last Handicap Review...totally makes sense with the huge numbers of uncompetitive maidens about... ...at present its a terrible waste of horseflesh "I am confident that a Rating 50 race can be developed successfully, these races should be open to maiden horses that have raced at least on 3 occasions in Set Weight Maidens, in reviewing the list of ratings of the horse pool there is a “big tail” at the bottom end of the ratings." Handicapping keeps your horses competitive fred and fires up investment... you know it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 7 hours ago, Thomass said: Just getting back to the Maiden Handicap races to increase betting.. ...it was advised in the last Handicap Review...totally makes sense with the huge numbers of uncompetitive maidens about... ...at present its a terrible waste of horseflesh "I am confident that a Rating 50 race can be developed successfully, these races should be open to maiden horses that have raced at least on 3 occasions in Set Weight Maidens, in reviewing the list of ratings of the horse pool there is a “big tail” at the bottom end of the ratings." Handicapping keeps your horses competitive fred and fires up investment... you know it Good idea Thommo but like most of the good ideas in that review, they were ignored. While you are there, also note these bits ... p.3. The increased transparency of rating assessments and adoption of ratings templates has seen a reduction in the degree of reassessment both in the raising and lowering of post-race ratings, an increased compression of the weight spread in races has become accepted practice which in turn can be argued has led to a decrease in competitiveness in races across the board in both countries. p.5-6 Personally I believe the 5.0 kg spread of weights (11 pounds) both in New Zealand and Australia is not sufficient and I would prefer a minimum of 7.0 kg (16 pounds). It should be remembered that the principle racing bodies within the neighbouring regions of Hong Kong which races off a 9.5 kg spread (21 pounds) with Singapore off a 9.0 kg range (20 pounds). Both Europe and the UAE conduct their racing off similar weight spreads. That would suggest that he thinks that handicap weight differentials as they stand in Australasia are pretty much irrelevant. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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