2k Madness

[Lad27]

So 2k visa to import a dog into the country - why. So the nz supermarket breeders can earn abit more.

The family that breed one litter maybe every 1-2yrs is just about gone as is the small bloke racing 2-6 greys and works full time.

Maybe we should be looking in our own back yard before making rash decisions. As that chance to buy a grey from ozz is just about gone for the person wanting to take a chance and have a go.

Before anyone has a go at me, seen many dogs for sale or pups for that matter?, excluding punters hq selling up due to this new reactive rule.

I know some will agree and some won't but this is my opinion.

[Yankiwi]

The $2K is fully refundable when the imported dog is returned to Australia.

You've asked "Why" Lad and GRNZ has made that clear in their first paragraph.

 

As you will be aware, GRNZ has been concerned about the issue of imported greyhounds from Australia with a history of marring or failing to pursue.  Equally, the issue of stakes repatriation and the potential loss of reinvestment into New Zealand, along with the -prospect of animals remaining in New Zealand after their racing lives for us to re-home, has meant we have widened our thinking on the import issue.

 

In many instances, dodgy dogs are being sent over for what some call a "second chance". The only new requirement is that after this "second chance" has been completed (be it with positive or negative results) the dog needs to returned back to Australia to have the $2K refunded.

You could look at it from the other perspective. This new rule could open up an opportunity for someone to breed greyhounds & sell the for more of a premium price from the time they are weaned.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Yankiwi

[Mehe]

Yes but  where dose that money go 

The way I see it that money has to go into a trust account and not into nzgra accounts 

 

[Mehe]

So is it $2500 as they the nzgra are keeping 500 that is not given  back but $2000 that is given back if the dog goes back to Australia 

[Lad27]

43 minutes ago, Mehe said:

So is it $2500 as they the nzgra are keeping 500 that is not given  back but $2000 that is given back if the dog goes back to Australia 

Correct

[Mehe]

Why then should grnz get this money for when they havent had it before if the dog returns to oz

[Lad27]

13 hours ago, Yankiwi said:

The $2K is fully refundable when the imported dog is returned to Australia.

You've asked "Why" Lad and GRNZ has made that clear in their first paragraph.

 

As you will be aware, GRNZ has been concerned about the issue of imported greyhounds from Australia with a history of marring or failing to pursue.  Equally, the issue of stakes repatriation and the potential loss of reinvestment into New Zealand, along with the -prospect of animals remaining in New Zealand after their racing lives for us to re-home, has meant we have widened our thinking on the import issue.

 

In many instances, dodgy dogs are being sent over for what some call a "second chance". The only new requirement is that after this "second chance" has been completed (be it with positive or negative results) the dog needs to returned back to Australia to have the $2K refunded.

You could look at it from the other perspective. This new rule could open up an opportunity for someone to breed greyhounds & sell the for more of a premium price from the time they are weaned.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree Yankiwi on this one.

I'd like to know the stats of the last year over this new policy. If this had occurred over the last ten years then there would have been plenty of dogs we would have never seen the likes of Swift Fantasy, Dyna Vikkers or Dream Collector to name a few. The real issue is rehoming dogs in N.Z. and to say we have been behind the 8 ball in this department is pretty much not far off.

' Equally, the issue of stakes repatriation and the potential loss of reinvestment into New Zealand'

Since when the f*#@ have G.R.N.Z. been worried about $$$ heading back to ozz???, I've been involved since 2007 and this is the first time. Was a $250 000 race at Addington a few years ago, pretty sure 1st and 2nd place $$$ went back to ozz.

This is just an easy fix without focusing on the issue of 3 large breeders, one in particular in the north island in deep with an ex board member because there is bugger all small breeders about and just remember who pulled the pin of frozen straws into N.Z. for the small guys.

 

[shodsie]

although this a very poor decision by either, the staff at nzgra or the current board i think it will have minimal impact in the next 12 too 18 months..... with the shortage of aussie dogs and increase of stake money over there, only high priced purchases and very talented iffy chasers will be heading our way and i cant see that changing............ the group 1 races will still be dominated by aussie imports we just might not have the pool of dogs too see the best every week like we do now........

i guess the rising question out of this has to be how and who made this decision???

some might agree with this policy, but one you don't agree with maybe next.......

as a code moving forward the cancer has to be cut out of nzgra (everyone i talk too seems too know exactly where it is located)  for the sport too thrive and hit the straps it really has the potential too hit, license persons deserve too have the right people running the code or everyone miles well just burn the collars and leads and bed mats now........

with public trainers steele/fahey and a long time owner dave emerson on the current board all having success with imports i find it hard too believe that they would support such a policy at board level so its got me beat how this would even get approved........

lets hope with a new CEO the code gets some good strong positive policy making which lets license people get on with racing and caring for their race dogs without the continuous sanctions been putting on them and just making people walk away from the sport that we all want too see continue and thrive

 

 

[Rockit]

I totally agree with you shodsie. But how is this going to change. Tonight we witness another dominating performance and record of wins. The little man has gone. Who's making money in this sport other than 3 or 4 main trainers/owners. I really hope there is change. It needs to happen but this has gone on for too long  and is it fixable? it is continuing.....  As a punter how do you see this?? 

[shodsie]

the thing that annoys me the most, is out of the 3 codes i really think going forward we have massive potential,punters/gamblers are driven by the quick gamble now they are getting less and less interested in 2 3 or even 4 minute horse races they want a "quick fix" and if we offer them a consistent product we really should just keep closing the gap on the other 2 codes.......

the wee man is disappearing in all 3 codes rockit this is not just a "greyhound"problem but when i do attend the races i have noticed a big increase in younger faces and lets hope in the future they can see a away too make a contribution to a sport they obviously love and enjoy 

the price of land is obviously going to be a killer going forward for potential young trainers if i knew the answers too this problem i could probably help fix the kiwibulid debacle........

getting access too dogs i don't think is overly challenging for new entrants , i know guys like dave fahey daryl mac robin wales are easily approachable and i'm sure they would sell pups or race dogs at reasonable prices even gary harding/karen walsh and if you want too breed a litter into the future they have some well proven families that would give people hope that they could have there own "thrilling talks dyna daves opawa hops" etc 

regarding the cole kennel it is going no where, but i can remember the day when they were just another family involved in the sport.......i guess the challenge too everyone else is with a bit of hard work, investment in quality stock why cant i compete with them??? might take a few years but you cant blame/dislike people for being successful,the young ones need too challenge themselves and remember they started at the bottom and are now at the top good luck too them........

 everyone in this sport,license people, administration should see a rosy future because it really is in our own hands its going to be what they make of it, but the less poor decisions in head office can only help,and with regards too the soon to be import policy it can not be the start or continuation of policy that takes the sport backwards i for one see no positives coming from it apart form a few administration staff patting themselves on the back..........

    

[BitofaLegend]

If grnz really cared about the welfare of this industry, than they would look at policies limiting the amount of dogs bred both per person and per registered property aswell as limiting the amount of numbers a trainer can condition per season. Two seperate trainers alone breed more and race more dogs than are currently rehomed through the system (with both trainers having a heavy emphasis on home bred dogs).

Obviously they do not have the balls to do this which will continue to lead racing in nz on a downward spiral. Weve already seen a state in australia nearly get shut down, usa pretty much finished, and ireland is not far behind and we are making similar mistakes, especially to ireland where they made all these statements and promises like we have and failed to fulfil them in the last 7 yrs.

If anyone thinks there is a happy end to the current over breeding going on, than you are sadly mistaken. 

Edited July 12, 2019 by BitofaLegend

[Yankiwi]

11 hours ago, Lad27 said:

If this had occurred over the last ten years then there would have been plenty of dogs we would have never seen the likes of Swift Fantasy, Dyna Vikkers or Dream Collector to name a few. 

Nearly $500K in earning with the three dogs you've chosen to name Lad. What $2K is to you or me Lad would be about the same as a $2 gold coin to owners of Dyna Whatever or Dodgy Allen.

If the soon $6K (fully refundable) Visa's had stopped these three dogs from coming over, then so be it.

Even better dogs may have been sent over in their place to further minimize monetary risk to their overseas owners or a purchasing NZ owner planning on bringing it here.

 

Swift Fantasy - 

 

Dyna Vikkers - 

 

Dream Collector - 

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Yankiwi

[bamboozla]

This policy is nonsense on virtually every level. If the argument is taking pressure of rehoming numbers then stop dogs with marring tickets arriving as a last roll of the dice or simply apply the bond to those dogs. 

Since when did nzgra ever care about overseas owners and running a protectionist racket. We celebrate our horses and dogs going abroad to reap the benefits of aussie racing yet somehow now it isn't ok if money is going the other way, how very Trump. There is also the misconception money goes to oz and never comes back, when in fact there are owners putting prize money back into breeding dogs in NZ providing income and investment back into NZ.

Small owners are and always will be the backbone of the sport, people like cole, Harding, wales etc will come and go over the long run but it is the broader ownership of the many that will keep the sport healthy. By removing what is about the cheapest way to get started in the sport by buying an import and having some moderate success you take away that crucial first taste of victory that is the hook for further investment. Buying reasonably priced race dogs in NZ is a nightmare from what I hear. Instead people are looking at pups which sounds all well and good as a breeder myself but as we all know that could go either way. Pups are expensive to buy, rear and breakin with no guarantee of ability. If the pups aren't much good then you have probably lost that owner. 

NZ doesn't have the infrastructure to breed, rear and breakin a sufficient number of greyhounds at a high enough standard to achieve better wastage rates than we get with imports. If we end up breeding twice as many dogs to achieve the same racing population then the only winners are the bloated puppy farmers and anyone else willing to pump out pups at minimal marginal cost. The welfare outcomes will be horrific. 

[Cockyaleg]

I agree, the new initiative will again support the few. I hear the puppy farmers have already set up to consolidate their already substantial market share. The few will have a monopoly and progeny will be priced accordingly.

[Coaster]

"NZ doesn't have the infrastructure to breed, rear and breakin a sufficient number of greyhounds at a high enough standard to achieve better wastage rates than we get with imports. If we end up breeding twice as many dogs to achieve the same racing population then the only winners are the bloated puppy farmers and anyone else willing to pump out pups at minimal marginal cost. The welfare outcomes will be horrific. "

This statement from bamboozla is spot on .

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[Mehe]

Tell me someone is this a restriction of trade or not

[bamboozla]

From a purely financially driven basis I could for example breed 5 or 6 litters next year instead of the 1-2 I would normally to cash in on this upcoming demand. All well and good but I'd be breeding from bitches I wouldn't have considered breeding from purely for the cash, bitches that were poor chasers or lacked strength or injury prone or all three. If you added in that instead of using the highest quality sire that suited my broodie and substituted with whatever was around locally at low cost the resultant population being sold on and being injected into our racing stock would likely be of lower quality reinforcing bad traits into pups instead of improving the gene pool. 

This will be the puppy farming model, breed cheap sell them and repeat with no easy foreign substitute. The best bred litters will still be kept by astute breeders and only the second rate pups will go on sale.