mardigras Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 He knows about the 'apparent' best go fast. I'm not so sure. My personal opinion is the horse would have won without the gear. Something we will now never know. Don't worry, it was only a $5m race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 What does this even mean prey tell?? ...something you'll never know you mean...you don't even compensate for unlucky runs in your 'speed' stats Haysey identified a "wandering around" problem in old Blighty and in races with usually greater numbers thought he'd concentrate better with head gear on... ...looked very unlucky to anyone who opened their eyes I would have thought... Stick with the head gear is moi's advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 What it means is that the guy you said was so good at putting on head gear first time - he did it in a $5m race and came up short (again). Bad luck to those punters that followed your advice and made it favourite. Next start, it isn't putting that gear on first time. Maybe he'll try some new gear next start. The horse was unlucky you claim. Probably was. Unlucky Hayes put the gear on since he met trouble because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Gee don't you sometimes wish you hadn't had that extra 5 drams before you post? But unless, and that's a very big 'unless', you're perpetually 'drammed' up... ...this latest post has absolutely no excuse.... Hayes... “He’ll love the wide open spaces of Flemington. “Even though there wasn’t any room, he was very brave as he wanted to take every gap. “In Europe he’d been wayward, but he went very straight due to the gear I had placed on him with the crossover noseband, the pre-race ear muffs, the lugging bit and winkers first time.” Gee..."went very straight" actually he was wrong there...didn't go straight when the Jock was looking all over the place for a run! Give up chump.....This horse psychology bizzo is totes beyond you let alone trying to work out seconds lost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, Thomass said: Gee don't you sometimes wish you hadn't had that extra 5 drams before you post? But unless, and that's a very big 'unless', you're perpetually 'drammed' up... ...this latest post has absolutely no excuse.... Hayes... “He’ll love the wide open spaces of Flemington. “Even though there wasn’t any room, he was very brave as he wanted to take every gap. “In Europe he’d been wayward, but he went very straight due to the gear I had placed on him with the crossover noseband, the pre-race ear muffs, the lugging bit and winkers first time.” Gee..."went very straight" actually he was wrong there...didn't go straight when the Jock was looking all over the place for a run! Give up chump.....This horse psychology bizzo is totes beyond you let alone trying to work out seconds lost... Have you actually met Hayes? No, didn't think so. Maybe Hayes should tell Aidan O'Brien he doesn't know shit. You believe too much of what these people say. Try using your eyes and some facts for a change - rather than opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Not only have I met him but I've met nearly the whole family...Liz is lovely btw.....including Col, who I used to tune in a short wave radio so he could listen to his runners back home... As I say...give up chump...you're embarrassing yourself with this nonsense Of course O'Brien uses more head gear than most over there....but as I say...they have mostly smaller fields and don't ride as tight as here... Back Boss avoid loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, Thomass said: Not only have I met him but I've met nearly the whole family...Liz is lovely btw.....including Col, who I used to tune in a short wave radio so he could listen to his runners back home... As I say...give up chump...you're embarrassing yourself with this nonsense Of course O'Brien uses more head gear than most over there....but as I say...they have mostly smaller fields and don't ride as tight as here... Back Boss avoid loss They do look after their shit shovellers well. So pleased to see they did that with you too. You've been found out more times than most people can count to. Your stupidity on head gear and especially with Hayes is so funny. He put the gear on - that's 100% why I laid him. So thanks for your advice. Sorry to hear you lost your dosh on the Caulfield Cup. Heck, even I managed to get a small win from the race. Don't blinkers make them run faster in UK/Ire? Wow what an admission. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 You should really be banned on here now..you're adding absolutely nothing of value...simply trolling... "C wins without the head gear" Thats what you said... Hayes..."he went very straight with the head gear I placed on him...he wanted to take every gap" Arent you feeling humiliated by this? It really is the mark of a narcissistic lunatic to be spouting off telling Hayes he got this wrong... Will Bossy tell Haysey to take them off you think?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, Thomass said: You should really be banned on here now..you're adding absolutely nothing of value...simply trolling... "C wins without the head gear" Thats what you said... Hayes..."he went very straight with the head gear I placed on him...he wanted to take every gap" Arent you feeling humiliated by this? It really is the mark of a narcissistic lunatic to be spouting off telling Hayes he got this wrong... Will Bossy tell Haysey to take them off you think?... Sorry you've taken this badly. I certainly do think he would have won without the headgear. Easily. That's my opinion, maybe Hayes has a different one. Do you think O'Brien thinks Constantinople should have been wearing all that gear? How dare O'Brien have a different opinion than Hayes. As for the cup, the horse could win with or without any gear. It's as simple as that. Whether he does win won't have anything to do with whether he wears it. If he wears it and wins, he would win without it. It's as simple as that. One thing is for sure, his price is lower than it should be wearing the gear. As it was in the Caulfield Cup. Mugs like you jump on things like that. Hayes gets plenty wrong. He gets plenty right. Now he seems to want to blame Nolen so has dumped him for the cup. Poor Hayes. Diddums. Did he get it wrong putting Nolen on in the Caulfield Cup. He'll say no. Maybe he should take a closer look at what he did. You put these people on some sort of pedestal. No wonder you are such a loser at punting. So much conflicting opinion from all the trainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Thomass said: Hayes..."he went very straight with the head gear I placed on him...he wanted to take every gap Aren't you humiliated supporting this notion. Have a watch of the overhead. If that's 'very straight', tell your mate he needs glasses. Drunken sailor springs to mind. Couldn't even run straight when it was in the clear. You just believe everything these trainers say. Idiot. Edited October 21, 2019 by mardigras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I could keep dunkin your tired old noggin in this ridiculous B/S you spin...but that would be cruel and unusual punishment...and the Geneva Convention's got me a few times over you already this year seriously though...give up... ..if you were an actual 'horseman' some may grant you Gravitas status here....so you admitted to helping Hayesy's partner pick up some horse shit one day...and you got to pat a real neddy....onya Whenever I read your maniacal thoughts...Baldrick looms up massively... You ride a horse rather less well than another horse would. Your brain would make a grain of sand look large and ungainly and the part of you that can't be mentioned, I am reliably informed by women around the Court, wouldn't be worth mentioning even if it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I don't take a positive approach to blinkers for a number of reasons: Every trainer that I have had anything to do with has never given a good reason for using them - it has always been "I might TRY using them" - none of them have known before hand if they will work or not work to achieve something they are not really that sure about. Often a horse will win with them on and then the trainer leaves them on in the belief that they made a difference; The stats I've seen published by Mardigras and others confirm that it is one variable not worth worrying about in your ratings. Except I tend to look at first time use as a negative; Why would a horse who is a herd animal want to be partially blinded from the rest of the herd? It doesn't make natural sense. The only thing that I've concluded over the years is that those horses that need them have an attitude issue or weren't adequately broken in or trained well in their first prep. The two best horses I've owned didn't race in head gear (they were tried and they didn't like it). They liked to see the field and where the winning post was. Neither of them were big strong horses but they were innately aggressive and smart thinkers. So when I'm looking at a field I get put off slightly by head gear especially for the first time and tend to focus on those who have clean heads and who eyeball their competitors. Of course though focussing on the other variables that help rate a horse's ability relative to the field it is racing in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) Clearly Thomass has been smashed again. And all he has is more of his usual lies and crap. Next time - just admit you and your mate are both blind. And you're stupid for believing such crap. Edited October 21, 2019 by mardigras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, Thomass said: I could keep dunkin your tired old noggin in this ridiculous B/S you spin...but that would be cruel and unusual punishment...and the Geneva Convention's got me a few times over you already this year seriously though...give up... ..if you were an actual 'horseman' some may grant you Gravitas status here....so you admitted to helping Hayesy's partner pick up some horse shit one day...and you got to pat a real neddy....onya Whenever I read your maniacal thoughts...Baldrick looms up massively... You ride a horse rather less well than another horse would. Your brain would make a grain of sand look large and ungainly and the part of you that can't be mentioned, I am reliably informed by women around the Court, wouldn't be worth mentioning even if it could be. What part of your response shows any constructive analytical rebuttal? I assume your Baldrick quote is self-analytical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Please don't feed the troll ...this has been done to death... ...for those stupid enough to give him air...just read this again "He would have easily won without the headgear" So champion trainer Hayes was wrong and looney tunes is right? fair dinkum nutbar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, Thomass said: Please don't feed the troll ...this has been done to death... ...for those stupid enough to give him air...just read this again "He would have easily won without the headgear" So champion trainer Hayes was wrong and looney tunes is right? fair dinkum nutbar You still here? Thought you'd be down at Specsavers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I don't take a positive approach to blinkers for a number of reasons: Every trainer that I have had anything to do with has never given a good reason for using them - it has always been "I might TRY using them" - none of them have known before hand if they will work or not work to achieve something they are not really that sure about. Often a horse will win with them on and then the trainer leaves them on in the belief that they made a difference; The stats I've seen published by Mardigras and others confirm that it is one variable not worth worrying about in your ratings. Except I tend to look at first time use as a negative; Why would a horse who is a herd animal want to be partially blinded from the rest of the herd? It doesn't make natural sense. The only thing that I've concluded over the years is that those horses that need them have an attitude issue or weren't adequately broken in or trained well in their first prep. The two best horses I've owned didn't race in head gear (they were tried and they didn't like it). They liked to see the field and where the winning post was. Neither of them were big strong horses but they were innately aggressive and smart thinkers. So when I'm looking at a field I get put off slightly by head gear especially for the first time and tend to focus on those who have clean heads and who eyeball their competitors. Of course though focussing on the other variables that help rate a horse's ability relative to the field it is racing in. Hilarious stuff... You need to change your trainer then mate..."never given a good reason"? Pleeeease...and "first time a negative" ffs...that's why Trainers like Waller save them up...haven't you heard them say that? As for the herd thing...I worked under an old time Stud Manager with vast knowledge... ..." these days many young horses are no longer run in mobs...hence they're more prone to field shyness when racing" what he said.. clean heads need meds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 I haven't heard ANY trainer give a good reason for using blinkers. Without exception they don't know until they try them. As for your interpretation of my herd analogy I don't disagree. It's about early education. However what is apparent is blinkers application is too an inexact science to justify using in rating a horse's chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 I'm not getting into your blinkers argument. But the observation about ' horses not run in mobs ' definitely makes sense to me. Some possibly are still in big groups, at least until sale prep. time...but a lot are kept carefully on their own in case they get kicked or hurt in someway. Factor in an owner/ breeder who.may only have one or two mares, perhaps a pony for company once weaned, and then add in the track rules at some public tracks which forbid more than two working upsides . Field shy? The poor buggers shit themselves. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Freda said: . Field shy? The poor buggers shit themselves. Yes, one of the reasons many trainers suggest blinkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 21 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I haven't heard ANY trainer give a good reason for using blinkers. Without exception they don't know until they try them. As for your interpretation of my herd analogy I don't disagree. It's about early education. However what is apparent is blinkers application is too an inexact science to justify using in rating a horse's chance. Soz, missed this..but sometimes the garbage truck misses my pick up as well... Prey tell what kind of Trainers did you used to hang around with? Basic stuff 101 I know...but just for you...' didn't want to go through a gap' You should drop Forsman a line...or bail him up in the HQ saddling stall when you go to the next Whips'n'spurs day... But it becomes EXACT when you hear trainer's like REDZEL's talk about him needing BLINKERS...or else "he just gives up" My modus operandi is if a neddy is still competitive as per the BP....and the B's go on... ...then I'm trusting the trainer has trialled said neddy and agreed with his eyes and Jock that indeed it goes faster with 'sunnies' ...Basic 101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Well nearlyall my horses as young horses from foaling to breaking in were kept in groups. Secondly they were well educated early and trained well. They were never afraid of pushing through a gap and punched well above their weight. I see blinkers as a training option to modify behavior and only temporary. Maybe Redzel would have gone better in the Everest without them? Yes Yes Yes didn't need them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 19 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Well nearlyall my horses as young horses from foaling to breaking in were kept in groups. Secondly they were well educated early and trained well. They were never afraid of pushing through a gap and punched well above their weight. I see blinkers as a training option to modify behavior and only temporary. Maybe Redzel would have gone better in the Everest without them? Yes Yes Yes didn't need them. Sorry if you've missed the WHOLE point here... Most are now molly coddled Prima donnas with no concept of mob rules...ok? You should contact these pro trainers...like REDZEL's, who have them on for WHOLE careers...haha...maybe stick some ear muffs on before you do though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Sorry if you've missed the WHOLE point here... Most are now molly coddled Prima donnas with no concept of mob rules...ok? You should contact these pro trainers...like REDZEL's, who have them on for WHOLE careers...haha...maybe stick some ear muffs on before you do though No you miss the point. Yes Yes Yes didn't wear blinkers Redzel did. As for first time wearers there is no statistical evidence to show that it makes a difference. So from a punting perspective it is a variable that is a WASTE of TIME including in your form assessments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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