Pre-race Vet Checks using Scanning Techonology: A step too far?

[Chief Stipe]

Two horses have been controversially scratched by RV Vets from nominations for the Melbourne Cup after leg scans revealed the possibility of pathological pre-fracture conditions of their legs.

Is this a step too far using unproven science and a knee jerk reaction to the bad publicity concerning previous Melbourne Cup horse breakdowns?  Could it be possible that ALL nominations for the Melbourne Cup if pre-vetted this way would show wear and tear of their lower limbs sufficient to scratch?  If you test two why not, to be fair, test them ALL.

More info on BOAY News:  https://bitofayarn.com/racenews/marmelo-ispolini-ruled-out-of-cup-by-vets/

[All The Aces]

 

They were only scanned because of concerns under normal vet checks.

Obviously the others passed which didn't require any further action. 

[Chief Stipe]

22 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

 

They were only scanned because of concerns under normal vet checks.

Obviously the others passed which didn't require any further action. 

Then why did they allow them to gallop and watch them gallop AFTER the scans?  

[Freda]

I can't answer why the horses were allowed to gallop after the scan - but from a legal perspective,  if there was any doubt at all about their soundness they could not be allowed to run.

Imagine the can of worms if one had caused dramatic interference upon breaking down and someone had been hurt?  Not to mention the publicity....

[Freda]

I can also understand the ire of the trainers/handlers of the horses concerned,  they will be questioning the experience/ability of those pronouncing sentence on their charges,  and who can blame them?

[All The Aces]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

I can also understand the ire of the trainers/handlers of the horses concerned,  they will be questioning the experience/ability of those pronouncing sentence on their charges,  and who can blame them?

 

Surely they would be well qualified and experienced senior vets Freda. 

[Chief Stipe]

I bet if they scanned every horse lined up for the Melbourne Cup they'd find issues using the assessment criteria they have applied.

The miles that are put into these horses to get ready for a hard two miles creates wear and tear.

Also wouldn't Godolphin have access to the best international vets available?  They are saying the assessment of the scans is wrong.

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

 

Surely they would be well qualified and experienced senior vets Freda. 

Yes no doubt they are well qualified and experienced but are they qualified and have experience in making assessments of scans to predict future events?  The Godolphin vets who one would imagine are the best in the world disagree with the assessment.

Now what happens if a horse that races next Tuesday does break down and hasn't been scanned.  The probability that a horse will break down is high given the conditioning required and the hard racing conditions.

RV vets will have some explaining to do then.  They should have left well alone as now trying to look proactive and appease the welfare fanatic minority they have opened a can of worms.

Then again they didn't need scans to scratch Kiwi the second time did they?!

[Chief Stipe]

Read the qualifications and experience of this vet who disagrees with the assessments.

http://www.newmarketequinehospital.com/team/ian-wright/

[curious]

what would he know?

[Chief Stipe]

18 minutes ago, curious said:

what would he know?

Is that sarcasm?

[curious]

Absolutely. It's ridiculous. Who is paying who for what? Makes me sick. No chance to get a second opinion days out from the race. Wtf?

Edited October 31, 2019 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, curious said:

Absolutely. It's ridiculous. Who is paying who for what? Makes me sick. No chance to get a second opinion days out from the race. Wtf?

And the complete irony is it was initiated by Racing Victoria's INTEGRITY UNIT!!!!! 

It's a very dangerous precedent they have just set trying to predict the future. 

[Chief Stipe]

The owners of Marmelo are considering legal options after last year’s Melbourne Cup runner-up was controversially scratched from the race.

Marmelo and Godolphin’s Ispolini, trained by last year’s Cup winning trainer Charlie Appleby, were on Wednesday scratched from Tuesday’s $8 million Cup after standing CT scans indicated potentia problems.

Racing Victoria stewards reported Marmelo had incomplete fractures in his near fore and off hind cannon bones while Ispolini had an issue with his right front cannon bone.

Part-owner John O’Neil said Marmelo was going for an MRI as the owners looked at validating their position.

“There are a lot of issues with the welfare of horses and I would hate to think the recent incidents are causing Racing Victoria to make decisions based on that,” O’Neill told racing.com.

“I’ve raced horses for 30 years. I’ve won a lot of Group One races. I’ve been very lucky. I know a lot of people and I would never put our horse in a position where we would be causing any issues.

“Ozzie Kheir, one of the prominent owners, along with Phil Mehrten and myself have reached out to get some legal advice in relation to things and it’s certainly something we’re going to do.”

Marmelo’s trainer Hughie Morrison said he took horse welfare seriously and was questioning the assessment of Chris Whitton from the University Of Melbourne.

“We’ve had the major expert in this field in Newmarket, Ian Wright, look at these scans and he has put his neck on the line,” Morrison said.

“He has said that it’s not justified to not race the horse.”

Morrison questioned why none of the local horses had been subjected to scans.

But RV head of integrity, Jamie Stier, said local horses would be scrutinised after vets began pre-acceptance testing of all horses remaining in the Cup.

Stier said five horses had undergone standing CT scans this spring, Red Verdon and Gold Mount following their Caulfield Cup runs, along with 2018 Cup winner Cross Counter, Ispolini and Marmelo.

Red Verdon was found to have a bone injury and Gold Mount a ligament injury.

Chris Connett, travelling foreman for Appleby, said the Godolphin team was disappointed Ispolini had been ruled out of Tuesday’s race.

“Obviously horse welfare is at the forefront and always is with any decision with our team and when you come to different racing jurisdictions you have to abide by their rules, and that’s what we’ll do,” Connett told RSN927.

RV inspected the top 35 horses in the entry order on Thursday with Angel Of Truth and Raheen House presenting with lameness.

Their respective trainers, Gwenda Markwell and William Haggas, have elected to scratch the horses from the Cup.

The Ciaron Maher and David Eustace-trained Dal Harraild also presented with lameness in the left fore leg and required replating on the right front foot.

An RV vet will re-examine Dal Harraild on Friday.

The post Owners consider legal options with Marmelo appeared first on BOAY Racing News.

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[nomates]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

The owners of Marmelo are considering legal options after last year’s Melbourne Cup runner-up was controversially scratched from the race.

Marmelo and Godolphin’s Ispolini, trained by last year’s Cup winning trainer Charlie Appleby, were on Wednesday scratched from Tuesday’s $8 million Cup after standing CT scans indicated potentia problems.

Racing Victoria stewards reported Marmelo had incomplete fractures in his near fore and off hind cannon bones while Ispolini had an issue with his right front cannon bone.

Part-owner John O’Neil said Marmelo was going for an MRI as the owners looked at validating their position.

“There are a lot of issues with the welfare of horses and I would hate to think the recent incidents are causing Racing Victoria to make decisions based on that,” O’Neill told racing.com.

“I’ve raced horses for 30 years. I’ve won a lot of Group One races. I’ve been very lucky. I know a lot of people and I would never put our horse in a position where we would be causing any issues.

“Ozzie Kheir, one of the prominent owners, along with Phil Mehrten and myself have reached out to get some legal advice in relation to things and it’s certainly something we’re going to do.”

Marmelo’s trainer Hughie Morrison said he took horse welfare seriously and was questioning the assessment of Chris Whitton from the University Of Melbourne.

“We’ve had the major expert in this field in Newmarket, Ian Wright, look at these scans and he has put his neck on the line,” Morrison said.

“He has said that it’s not justified to not race the horse.”

Morrison questioned why none of the local horses had been subjected to scans.

But RV head of integrity, Jamie Stier, said local horses would be scrutinised after vets began pre-acceptance testing of all horses remaining in the Cup.

Stier said five horses had undergone standing CT scans this spring, Red Verdon and Gold Mount following their Caulfield Cup runs, along with 2018 Cup winner Cross Counter, Ispolini and Marmelo.

Red Verdon was found to have a bone injury and Gold Mount a ligament injury.

Chris Connett, travelling foreman for Appleby, said the Godolphin team was disappointed Ispolini had been ruled out of Tuesday’s race.

“Obviously horse welfare is at the forefront and always is with any decision with our team and when you come to different racing jurisdictions you have to abide by their rules, and that’s what we’ll do,” Connett told RSN927.

RV inspected the top 35 horses in the entry order on Thursday with Angel Of Truth and Raheen House presenting with lameness.

Their respective trainers, Gwenda Markwell and William Haggas, have elected to scratch the horses from the Cup.

The Ciaron Maher and David Eustace-trained Dal Harraild also presented with lameness in the left fore leg and required replating on the right front foot.

An RV vet will re-examine Dal Harraild on Friday.

The post Owners consider legal options with Marmelo appeared first on BOAY Racing News.

View the full article

 

One way of reducing the number of northern hemisphere horses coming down for the cups .

[All The Aces]

We all saw the outcry after Cliffsofmoher was put down last year in the media. 

Unfortunately  four horses have had to be put down following the Cup in the last six years and the activists, media etc have been really putting the boot in.

Can you imagine the reaction if another horse is lost this year.

I imagine the VRC are checking the dots and crossing every T coming into the race.

Let's imagine the scenario if  Marmelo is actually reinstated, lines up and does indeed break a leg and in turn brings down another runner or several runners and mayhem eventuates. Who will be held responsible and subject to being sued. The ramifications would be very serious and very costly.  

[Chief Stipe]

12 hours ago, All The Aces said:

We all saw the outcry after Cliffsofmoher was put down last year in the media. 

Unfortunately  four horses have had to be put down following the Cup in the last six years and the activists, media etc have been really putting the boot in.

Can you imagine the reaction if another horse is lost this year.

I imagine the VRC are checking the dots and crossing every T coming into the race.

Let's imagine the scenario if  Marmelo is actually reinstated, lines up and does indeed break a leg and in turn brings down another runner or several runners and mayhem eventuates. Who will be held responsible and subject to being sued. The ramifications would be very serious and very costly.  

The probability of a horse breaking down on Melbourne Cup day is high as it is on any raceday anywhere.  Although arguably in high pressure races where horses have been trained to their limit the probability is higher.  

The VRC vets have shown some duplicity however by the fact that they let Marmelo gallop AFTER they had seen the scans.  The horse galloped well.  It wasn't visually lame before or after the gallop.  So is it really about the horse's welfare or something else?

It is unlikely that Marmelo will be reinstated but one of the world's leading experts in Equine Orthopaedics has said the assessment of the scans is wrong.  The diagnosis made by the RV vets is subjective at best.  Now there is a can of worms opened.  Will the bleeding heart animal welfare activists start demanding that ALL horses are pre-race scanned in ALL races?  Or should it only apply to the Melbourne Cup because there is a wider audience watching?  Should they scan all horses racing and review those horse's that breakdown during a race i.e. gather some definitive data?

Racing is a dangerous sport for ALL participants and horses breaking down are a fact of the game.  We have a highly inbred animal racing at the peak of its athletic ability racing 2 miles under pressure which is something that the horse structurally isn't designed to do.

The horse's scratched after the scans won't be reinstated not because the science is accurate, it isn't, but because as you point out if an accident happens litigation would probably ensue.