Seriously Has the Horse Bolted!!?

[Harryburtfell]

And have the dogs been let out?,     Is the New Zealand Racing Scene sutterly over the last few years been Infiltrated by a pack of thugs that have only one thing in mind and that is to make money at the expense of the dedicated honest people that the Industry up untill now has been built apon. Is it possible that through the weaker code (greyhounds) these mongrels have wormed their way into positions to satisfy their greedy  needs.. Think about it!!!.. before you go spouting off.   Let's take CAMERON  GEORGE for example..a man that lacks INTEGRITY and is more BENT than a Bulls broken  Dick!!.. Just look at his position today and how he got there... There are a lot of his cronies slipping into positions and will be named  that are shagging this sport     so let's get started...:)  Bickford, Kennerly, Holden, Barsi, and GODBER, to name a few) also  the big fat lady that is baby sitting the salary as C.E.O. while RENDLE and his partner the Poodle Killing Cole gets dealt to by the  pending  S.P.C.A. court case. The trotting Scene has inherited a few of these aresholes and the Racing Integrity Unit is as Bent as Cameron George,and Ross Neal that set the benchmark for this out of control scene... Wake up, speak up, and let's put the racing Industry back on the World Scene where it belongs....    

[mardigras]

Gallops needs to be more thankful of the greyhounds.

They're helping keep them afloat.

[Harryburtfell]

Yes they are Mardi, but the problem lies deeper than that.!!.  Follow the trail of these thugs, they are dead set going to destroy the Racing Industry as a whole   and many dedicated honest people . Cole and Rendle have raked in since the S.P.C.A. chrges were laid many Millions (check the web site for facts).. We  need to put someone in charge to stop this carnage, it's rampant, and out of control, somehow we need to step up and stop these low lives from ruining lives of honest decent people and their animals and a lifestyle that has been to the forefront   for many years  

[mardigras]

I agree, the low life scum need to be appropriately dealt with. 

But most of gallops ills have been sadly self inflicted.

[mardigras]

Whilst the integrity issues facing NZ racing are large, the biggest impact to NZ gallops revenue and interest in my view was as a result of an idea fully supported by NZ gallops.

There haven't been many people that agree with me on this, but the Tabcorp agreement/commingling is likely the biggest impact there has been on NZ gallops revenue/interest in the last 15 years. And it's a very negative one.

It was never going to deliver to NZ racing what was suggested. It did what was obvious.

There is one very clear illustration of what it would do (and has done).

If you owned a bakery in NZ, would you put posters up all over your shop (and in all your advertising), saying that your customers could buy better bakery items elsewhere and they were cheaper elsewhere - and then expect the interest in what your bakery offered, to stay the same? You simply wouldn't do it.

Imagine walking into a local bakery and seeing a sign telling people that if they look down the road, they can get some superior bread at Brumby's - and it's cheaper. But feel free to shop here if you want to support local. Great idea.

So punters can bet on Australian racing. The takeout on Australian races is lower than on NZ races through the TAB. The racing is arguably massively superior to our own. Cheaper and better quality and with greater price surety. Wow, whouda thought punters would follow that.

Yet that is what NZTR and the clubs effectively did by getting in behind the agreement to commingle and shove 50,000+ races down the throats of New Zealand punters. And now there is little interest in NZ gallops.

The funny thing in a sad way, is that NZTR and many industry people have praised this as being the best thing for NZ racing. When all it has done has killed interest in our racing, and delivered nothing in revenue. What a winner.

I could write a (another) piece in a book about why this was going to fail. I did write that it would fail before it even got agreement. Not much good to us now. And yet, there will still be many that think it's brilliant. I hope they aren't the ones complaining when a good race from NZ finishes and they cross to Mudgee for a maiden on Trackside straight after the race.

So in respect of the damage done - I suspect the horse has well and truly bolted.

[holy ravioli]

The punters think its brilliant Mardi...and usually they don't ...count.

[mardigras]

27 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

The punters think its brilliant Mardi...and usually they don't ...count.

Yeah - but which punters. Not the ones betting on NZ racing. Tote betting on NZ racing has never been lower. Even with TABCORP investment, less than what it was pre commingling.

[holy ravioli]

NZ TAB's days are numbered one would imagine.

 

Some  type of merger with an aussie agency ,where NZ gets a fair return is the inevitable outcome.

[curious]

39 minutes ago, mardigras said:

Yeah - but which punters. Not the ones betting on NZ racing. Tote betting on NZ racing has never been lower. Even with TABCORP investment, less than what it was pre commingling.

I remember those discussions at the time and I think was skeptical of your view initially though was quickly convinced and have watched the evidence pile up ever since. The silly thing is they haven't learned and now are adding a suite of new betting products thinking that will increase punter spending when all it will do is further dilute the spend on NZ racing.

[mardigras]

2 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

NZ TAB's days are numbered one would imagine.

 

Some  type of merger with an aussie agency ,where NZ gets a fair return is the inevitable outcome.

Maybe, however that won't change the fact that the interest in NZ racing has been depleted. And yet, the people still want the government to fork out to an industry that has little or no interest in NZ.

At some point, a government will decide that continuing to fund the NZ industry the way it does is pointless. Why gift it $150m per year when it earns peanuts, and has GDP of peanuts.

All because of a decision they took to shift interest away from NZ racing - where it used to earn close to what it got, and still had people interested in it (at least adding to the GDP component).

[mardigras]

4 minutes ago, curious said:

I remember those discussions at the time and I think was skeptical of your view initially though was quickly convinced and have watched the evidence pile up ever since. The silly thing is they haven't learned and now are adding a suite of new betting products thinking that will increase punter spending when all it will do is further dilute the spend on NZ racing.

Yes, they added an extra 15,000 races last year to the 85,000 they already operated on as well. And total betting on racing through NZ TAB dropped $28m year on year (including fixed odds). Total tote betting dropped a further $65m.

Edited January 6, 2020 by mardigras

[aquaman]

2 hours ago, mardigras said:

Whilst the integrity issues facing NZ racing are large, the biggest impact to NZ gallops revenue and interest in my view was as a result of an idea fully supported by NZ gallops.

There haven't been many people that agree with me on this, but the Tabcorp agreement/commingling is likely the biggest impact there has been on NZ gallops revenue/interest in the last 15 years. And it's a very negative one.

It was never going to deliver to NZ racing what was suggested. It did what was obvious.

There is one very clear illustration of what it would do (and has done).

If you owned a bakery in NZ, would you put posters up all over your shop (and in all your advertising), saying that your customers could buy better bakery items elsewhere and they were cheaper elsewhere - and then expect the interest in what your bakery offered, to stay the same? You simply wouldn't do it.

Imagine walking into a local bakery and seeing a sign telling people that if they look down the road, they can get some superior bread at Brumby's - and it's cheaper. But feel free to shop here if you want to support local. Great idea.

So punters can bet on Australian racing. The takeout on Australian races is lower than on NZ races through the TAB. The racing is arguably massively superior to our own. Cheaper and better quality and with greater price surety. Wow, whouda thought punters would follow that.

Yet that is what NZTR and the clubs effectively did by getting in behind the agreement to commingle and shove 50,000+ races down the throats of New Zealand punters. And now there is little interest in NZ gallops.

The funny thing in a sad way, is that NZTR and many industry people have praised this as being the best thing for NZ racing. When all it has done has killed interest in our racing, and delivered nothing in revenue. What a winner.

I could write a (another) piece in a book about why this was going to fail. I did write that it would fail before it even got agreement. Not much good to us now. And yet, there will still be many that think it's brilliant. I hope they aren't the ones complaining when a good race from NZ finishes and they cross to Mudgee for a maiden on Trackside straight after the race.

So in respect of the damage done - I suspect the horse has well and truly bolted.

Could not put it better myself, absolutely correct. I have commented on this for years. Did you know that the takeout on a NZ quinella on a domestic race is greater than one on an Australian race even when co mingled. So you can have two people standing in a NZ TAB taking quinellas, one bets Riccarton, one bets Flemington, and the deduction will be greater on the NZ race. It gets worse, a punter standing in an Australian TAB betting on a NZ race will pay the higher takeout as well. This could not be better designed to lower turnover on NZ racing. Unbelieveably stupid.

[Chief Stipe]

18 minutes ago, holy ravioli said:

Some  type of merger with an aussie agency ,where NZ gets a fair return is the inevitable outcome.

We get a fair return now on what is a substandard product.  Arguably the NZTAB gets a return that is more than fair given its takeout rates.

[mardigras]

2 minutes ago, aquaman said:

Could not put it better myself, absolutely correct. I have commented on this for years. Did you know that the takeout on a NZ quinella on a domestic race is greater than one on an Australian race even when co mingled. So you can have two people standing in a NZ TAB taking quinellas, one bets Riccarton, one bets Flemington, and the deduction will be greater on the NZ race. It gets worse, a punter standing in an Australian TAB betting on a NZ race will pay the higher takeout as well. This could not be better designed to lower turnover on NZ racing. Unbelieveably stupid.

It's lower for the win tote market as well. Admittedly not much, but lower. 14.5% on an Australian race, 15.5% on a NZ one. Ludicrous.

[aquaman]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

We get a fair return now on what is a substandard product.  

Correction Chief, we get shafted on the takeout on a substandard product.

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, aquaman said:

Correction Chief, we get shafted on the takeout on a substandard product.

The punter does.  But how can the NZ TAB argue that they aren't getting a fair return?

What worries me is that only a very few (they seem to all post on BOAY) haven't bought into the Racefields legislation bullshit.

[mardigras]

1 hour ago, holy ravioli said:

The punters think its brilliant Mardi...and usually they don't ...count.

They must be thinking it's brilliant -except they aren't betting on it. Tote turnover across all races only down $65m last year with NZ TAB.

in 2007, tote was 1.225b (across 24,780 races), 490m on NZ gallops                
in 2019, tote was 0.885b (across 99,300 races), 220m on NZ gallops

 

[holy ravioli]

17 minutes ago, mardigras said:

Maybe, however that won't change the fact that the interest in NZ racing has been depleted. And yet, the people still want the government to fork out to an industry that has little or no interest in NZ.

At some point, a government will decide that continuing to fund the NZ industry the way it does is pointless. Why gift it $150m per year when it earns peanuts, and has GDP of peanuts.

All because of a decision they took to shift interest away from NZ racing - where it used to earn close to what it got, and still had people interested in it (at least adding to the GDP component).

Racing has one political card to play though...40,000 jobs.

[mardigras]

1 minute ago, holy ravioli said:

Racing has one political card to play though...40,000 jobs.

It's a low value card and based on what? There is no way there are anywhere near 40,000 FTEs involved in NZ racing. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by mardigras

[holy ravioli]

1 minute ago, mardigras said:

They must be thinking it's brilliant -except they aren't betting on it. Tote turnover across all races only down $65m last year with NZ TAB.

in 2007, tote was 1.225b (across 24,780 races), 490m on NZ gallops                
in 2019, tote was 0.885b (across 99,300 races), 220m on NZ gallops

 

the decline in betting on NZ gallops tells the...story.

[Chief Stipe]

Just now, holy ravioli said:

Racing has one political card to play though...40,000 jobs.

That's another statistical lie that keeps getting rolled out as propaganda.  They include everything that has even a minute source of income from racing.  For example - the local vet who probably gets most of their income from cats and dogs.  Even the vets in Cambridge probably get most of their income from the breeding industry which isn't the racing industry.

[holy ravioli]

Just now, mardigras said:

It's a low value card and based on what? There is no way there are anywhere near 40,000 FTEs involved in NZ racing. 

Its a useful card in an area that is very sensitive to politicians.

Definitely not a 'fistful of aces'!?

[aquaman]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

The punter does.  But how can the NZ TAB argue that they aren't getting a fair return?

You know Chief, once upon a time I followed domestic gallops all the time, now I only bet on Victorian gallops, and the odd bets elswhere in Aus. It was the quality and takeout difference that weaned me off the domestic product, and I bet I am not the only one.

[holy ravioli]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's another statistical lie that keeps getting rolled out as propaganda.  They include everything that has even a minute source of income from racing.  For example - the local vet who probably gets most of their income from cats and dogs.  Even the vets in Cambridge probably get most of their income from the breeding industry which isn't the racing industry.

whose s?ide are you on!

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, mardigras said:

They must be thinking it's brilliant -except they aren't betting on it. Tote turnover across all races only down $65m last year with NZ TAB.

in 2007, tote was 1.225b (across 24,780 races), 490m on NZ gallops                
in 2019, tote was 0.885b (across 99,300 races), 220m on NZ gallops

 

Yep so with a declining quality race product they have further added to its decline by showing races from Busan to some obscure place in North America.  I was watching the New Zealand races the other day and instead of promoting the racing they were switching back to harness racing in the snow in Canada!  Go figure!

The last thing I wanted to see was a race being held in the middle of winter with snow drifts!