Parameters for the Messara Report

[MaltedMilkshake]

I would like to know the parameters given to John Messara by Winston Peters for the review of NZ Racing.

would this info be a available under FOI?  If so, how do I go about obtaining such?  Or does anyone else have access to this information? I would think as a Minister of the Crown, that information would be on the public record...?

In my view, Messara didn’t address certain issues....critical issues which have been flagged by Racing NSW...and I’m anxious to see if these were part of the criteria for investigation...

[Chief Stipe]

28 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

I would like to know the parameters given to John Messara by Winston Peters for the review of NZ Racing.

would this info be a available under FOI?  If so, how do I go about obtaining such?  Or does anyone else have access to this information? I would think as a Minister of the Crown, that information would be on the public record...?

In my view, Messara didn’t address certain issues....critical issues which have been flagged by Racing NSW...and I’m anxious to see if these were part of the criteria for investigation...

The TOR is available online. 

Most of the official documents can be found here:

https://www.dia.govt.nz/Racing-review

[curious]

431 July 2018Minister for Racing Office of Rt. Hon. Winston Peters7.4 Executive WingParliament BuildingsWellington 6160New ZealandDear Minister,I refer to your letter of 10 April 2018 setting out the scope for the high levelReview you have commissioned me to conduct on the New Zealand RacingIndustry, with a focus on the thoroughbred racing sector. You have asked me to:•review the financial viability of the thoroughbred racing Code and howthe current industry model supports the long term sustainability of theracing industry in New Zealand•analyse the current situation, with particular emphasis on thethoroughbred racing Code•provide high-level recommendations, supported by research, forpotential reform, which may include legislative, operational, structuraland organisational changes to the New Zealand racing industrySpecifically, you have asked me to consider:•the Racing Act of 2003 •the Racing Amendment Bill of 2017 currently before parliament•the New Zealand Racing Board (NZRB) and the racing industry’sgovernance structure •the future of the TAB I thank you for the opportunity to undertake this Review.

[MaltedMilkshake]

Thank you for the above 
I’m guessing Winston didn’t ask JM about export...too controversial...

JM’s response is very general...and probably didn’t want to stir the pot...Publicly at least.

just reviewing the major documents it’s not mentioned at all....

So if the root cause of the problem was not addressed, then how can you fix the problem...and my fear is NZ racing will be back in the same position and no Government bail out....

[Chief Stipe]

28 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

I’m guessing Winston didn’t ask JM about export...too controversial...

Export of what?

[Freda]

2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Export of what?

Cannabis. 

[Chief Stipe]

59 minutes ago, Freda said:

Cannabis. 

Funny ha ha.  Export of horses? Races? 

Messara did look at Race exports.  

With regard to horse exports I don’t see what the issue is.

[Joe Bloggs]

I reckon horse exports has been the damnation of racing, the products not worth betting on, all the good horses have gone and according to this months exports even the ordinary neddies are leaving the country.

I know your betting culture is vastly different to ours, punters here wont bet on ordinary horses, the turnover on  B58 and under is abysmal, although many good horses here are sold to HK, the majority decline those offers as they are raced by syndicates, and they want to enjoy the thrill of owning a top liner instead of the 20k in their pocket, plus the purses offered here are brilliant, still close to best on the planet overall.....

[Freda]

I'm not entirely sure that horse exports are the total cause of our malaise, definitely one problem for sure, but brought about by the trainwreck that is NZ racing - IMO.

A vibrant industry would have no need to flog off its assets....but those assets depart in ever-increasing numbers, with no financial recompense for the structures that developed them.  I suspect that is your concern, as well as the 'dumbing down' of the remaining 'product' .

TAB [dis]function, handicapping, programming, stakes allocation, track maintenance, integrity, rider/trainer education, horse welfare, are issues that all have their part in the thing not working.   All matters that have been tossed around here and elsewhere by some very intelligent and enlightened posters...but given little heed by those who really should take notice.

[Chief Stipe]

27 minutes ago, Freda said:

with no financial recompense for the structures that developed them. 

I think the "New Zealand structures" have had less relevance in "developing the assets" for more than a couple of decades now.  Increasingly New Zealand breeding is measured on its overseas performance.  Do you expect those overseas "infrastructures" to contribute?

If New Zealand racing closed down there is a significant part of our breeding industry that would keep on - their advantages being historical mare families and good grass.

The key in my opinion is making sure that racing plays to our core advantages.  Has anyone thought what impact All Weather Tracks will have on our breeding industry?  What impact will this have and the closing of racetracks have on the last big breeding establishment in the south - White Robe Lodge?

37 minutes ago, Freda said:

TAB [dis]function, handicapping, programming, stakes allocation, track maintenance, integrity, rider/trainer education, horse welfare, are issues that all have their part in the thing not working.

These are the key factors that haven't been addressed nor aligned with the "NZ Breed of Thoroughbred".  In this respect the big studs have been their own worst enemy.  They've pushed for tiered stakes, sweep stake races that suck an inordinate amount of money out of the general pool, handicapping that skews towards fillies and mares (weakens the breed) and have been major players in all the decisions that were wrong.  What's more it has been driven from one area in New Zealand - the Waikato.  Once strong breeding centres in the South, Central and Wairarapa have been squeezed out.  

[Freda]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I think the "New Zealand structures" have had less relevance in "developing the assets" for more than a couple of decades now.  Increasingly New Zealand breeding is measured on its overseas performance.  Do you expect those overseas "infrastructures" to contribute?

I'm referring to the Asian market for educated horses.  Huge numbers at trial days, with the nicer performers off overseas, never to grace our racetracks.

Few of those winners will remain to  add interest to local fields.

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

If New Zealand racing closed down there is a significant part of our breeding industry that would keep on - their advantages being historical mare families and good grass.

The key in my opinion is making sure that racing plays to our core advantages.  Has anyone thought what impact All Weather Tracks will have on our breeding industry?  What impact will this have and the closing of racetracks have on the last big breeding establishment in the south - White Robe Lodge?

 

That has bothered me too...

 

These are the key factors that haven't been addressed nor aligned with the "NZ Breed of Thoroughbred".  In this respect the big studs have been their own worst enemy.  They've pushed for tiered stakes, sweep stake races that suck an inordinate amount of money out of the general pool, handicapping that skews towards fillies and mares (weakens the breed) and have been major players in all the decisions that were wrong.  What's more it has been driven from one area in New Zealand - the Waikato.  Once strong breeding centres in the South, Central and Wairarapa have been squeezed out.  

 

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Freda said:

I'm referring to the Asian market for educated horses.  Huge numbers at trial days, with the nicer performers off overseas, never to grace our racetracks.

It all comes back to revenue which determines the stakes levels - easy to get $150k minimum for a young horse that has been educated and trialled well.  Doesn't take complicated maths to work out how many races you would have to win to clear that amount.

Been like it for at least 20 years.  Got worse when they screwed the handicapping system and made a top heavy tier system of stakes.  Champagne top-end stakes on a beer income.

NOTHING I've seen to date is going to improve the NET revenue situation.  What's more what we are seeing now is not only a redistribution of costs (from NZRB to the codes administration) but an increase in costs with extra boards and high maintenance All Weather Tracks.

 

[Freda]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

It all comes back to revenue which determines the stakes levels - easy to get $150k minimum for a young horse that has been educated and trialled well.  Doesn't take complicated maths to work out how many races you would have to win to clear that amount.

Been like it for at least 20 years.  Got worse when they screwed the handicapping system and made a top heavy tier system of stakes.  Champagne top-end stakes on a beer income.

NOTHING I've seen to date is going to improve the NET revenue situation.  What's more what we are seeing now is not only a redistribution of costs (from NZRB to the codes administration) but an increase in costs with extra boards and high maintenance All Weather Tracks.

 

Exactly.   Which is my point about the AWT's, which seems to be taken as an inference that I am against them.  I'm not, not at all, but I don't see the sense in a bankrupt industry throwing taxpayers' money at a supposition.

As far as the sale of trialled horses - I think that MM's concern is valid, just that it is not the only driver of our dropping revenue.  Certainly, nice young horses retained here to race and bet on, would help maintain interest and boost revenue...and the dregs that are left, definitely lack the excitement factor.     A levy on sales has been suggested, I'm not sure whether I think that would help a great deal.  I guess some funding is better than none..  but they would have to be bloody big levies to get us out of the shit we are in now.