LAMAO

[billy connolly]

What a dead loss this R.I.U outfit is, where can one find a replay of below race please ?

Fines:  -  Race 7.)  C. Johnson  -  Baby Menaka  -  $1000  [Rule 638 (3) (b) (ii)]  Excessive use of whip  

https://loveracing.nz/SystemTemplates/RaceInfo/StewardsReport.ashx?DayID=49598&FileName=14nov2020canterbury2.pdf

[curious]

https://loveracing.nz/Common/SystemTemplates/Modal/Video.aspx?v=http%3a%2f%2fwww.racingreplays.co.nz%2fmedia%2f202011%2fCBRY-R07-141120.mp4&i=%2fCommon%2fImage.ashx%3fw%3d565%26h%3d314%26a%3d1%26o%3d1%26z%3d1%26bg%3deeeeee%26p%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fwww.racingreplays.co.nz%2fmedia%2f202011%2fCBRY-R07-141120.jpg&r=Race 7 - NZB RTR SALE 18-19 NOV PREMIER&rs=1

[billy connolly]

Fuck me, wasn't even hit behind the saddle !

The J.C.A are imbeciles as well.

[curious]

Not quite sure how the penalty fits with the new rules but I don't think behind the saddle has anything to do with it. It's presumably still a strike with the whip if it's down the shoulder.

NZTR Revised Whip Guidelines - Penalty GuidelinesNZTR propose the revised whip guidelines come into effect on 7 October.Panelists have already been sent the guidelines and are expected to be fully conversant with these changesThere are 3 particular changes panelists need to be mindful of. The first is the limitation of 5 strikes of the whip prior to the 100 metres.The proposed penalty starting points for a breach of this requirement are: 1st breach - $300 fine2nd breach - $500 fine3rd breach - day suspensionHowever, If the number of strikes is 10 or more a 6 day suspension is to be the starting point.Panelists should be aware the RIU will be using warnings quite liberally for early breaches of this rule and therefore when a rider appears before a committee he or she will have been amply warned of their use of the whip responsibilities. Little or minimal (ie in exceptional circumstances) mitigation of penalty is expected. Panelists should note NZTR’s animal welfare concerns in bringing in these changes and support that objective in their penalty setting. Note should also be taken of the animal welfare focus in the “Burgess Report” terms of reference.Where the breach occurs in a Group or Feature race and the number of strikes is 4 or more than the permitted 5 the starting point is a 6 day suspension plus a fine at the committee’s discretion up to the rider’s percentage of prize money (where applicable). If less than this but still more than 5 then a fine appropriate to the status of the race is to be the starting point.The second change relates to a restriction on consecutive strikes of the whip within the permitted 5 strikes before the 100 metres.Early offending under this requirement will be dealt with by the RIU issuing warnings so a charge ought only to follow a high end breach of this rule or circumstances where a rider simply fails to heed the warnings and adjust their use of the whip. Mitigation of penalty therefore ought to be rare.Proposed penalty starting points are therefore:Where it is a first breach and the number of consecutive strikes are 2-5 then a fine of $200;For a second breach a fine of $300;For a third breach a fine of $500;

For a fourth or more breach a 6 day suspension.Where the number of consecutive strikes is 6 or more the starting point is a $500 fine. Should a rider incur a second breach involving 6 or more consecutive strikes then the starting point is to be a 6 day suspension.Mitigation is to be exceptional.Panelists are to be familiar with the new requirements and significant restrictions on use of the whip by Amateur Riders.The third major change relates to it being a breach for a trainer, owner or equivalent interest to give instructions to a rider which may lead to a breach of the use of the whip restrictions. The proposed penalty starting point for a breach is a $750 fine and $1500 for a second breach. Charges of this type are likely to be rare and possibly occur more around major races.IMPORTANT NOTE All riders’ records under the whip rules will reset with effect from 7 October 2019 being the implementation date for the whip guideline changes.

[Noodlum]

Didn't CWJ get fined once for not using the whip?

[billy connolly]

These R.I.U / J.C.A imbeciles who are currently putting the boot into Johnson wouldn't be in the same road/street when it comes to life achievements.

Barring misfortune he's going to become the greatest winning jockey ever in New Zealand and although he's not as good as he once was, we'll never see the likes of him again.
 

[curious]

3 hours ago, billy connolly said:

 although he's not as good as he once was, we'll never see the likes of him again.

 

Maybe not but on a good day at least, he's still not far off it. Ever hear of tall poppy syndrome?

Edited November 18, 2020 by curious

[billy connolly]

Reading the J.C.A. dictation below makes me want to reach for the bucket, although Johnson did plead guilty which he should never have done.

If this indictment had have been brought under the old judicial system it would have been thrown out, Oatham and Davidson should be kicked to Kingdom Come.

http://www.jca.org.nz/race-days/canterbury-jc-thoroughbred-racing-14-11-2020/canterbury-jc-14-november-2020-r7-chair-mr-r-mckenzie/

[curious]

It was brought under the new whip rule and I think he was treated quite favourably in that he incurred no suspension as indicated by the rule. He agreed that he breached the rule. This rule needs to be enforced and that was done so fairly here imo and it appears also in Chris's.

This is also in the context of a proposal further tightening of the rule:

NZTR is interested in the views of racing participants, fans and other interested parties on:
1. the general proposition that the use of the whip be further restricted with effect from mid to late 2021, and that
2. in a further 3-5 years, be again restricted to a point where it can only be carried for the purposes of ‘safety and control’.

Edited November 20, 2020 by curious

[billy connolly]

Another aspect of our judicial system I find disturbing is having former R.I.U. stewards appointed to the J.C.A.

Both Ching and McCutcheon are former R.I.U. stipendiary stewards, this is not only manifestly wrong it defeats the sole purpose of having an independent Judicial Control Authority.

You don't see former Police prosecutors appointed as District and High Court judges !

[Chief Stipe]

15 minutes ago, billy connolly said:

You don't see former Police prosecutors appointed as District and High Court judges !

Not true.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/from-bar-to-bench-napier-prosecutor-jo-rielly-becomes-a-judge/FABAWKDMYO6KXMMW55JVR2KK7M/#:~:text=The appointment has been announced,in Napier on June 11.

[Freda]

30 minutes ago, billy connolly said:

Another aspect of our judicial system I find disturbing is having former R.I.U. stewards appointed to the J.C.A.

Both Ching and McCutcheon are former R.I.U. stipendiary stewards, this is not only manifestly wrong it defeats the sole purpose of having an independent Judicial Control Authority.

You don't see former Police prosecutors appointed as District and High Court judges !

I think the Chief just refuted that....however, I always thought that JCA personnel had to be of a legal persuasion.

Both McCutcheon and Ching were jockeys in the first instance,  no legal training there.

[Chief Stipe]

29 minutes ago, Freda said:

I think the Chief just refuted that....however, I always thought that JCA personnel had to be of a legal persuasion.

Both McCutcheon and Ching were jockeys in the first instance,  no legal training there.

Have McCutcheon or Ching chaired a hearing?  As long as I can remember there have been non legal people involved but the chair seems to always have legal training especially on complex issues.  You must admit it is a bit of an overkill to have a QC deliberating on a whip charge that has been admitted and where penalty has been set by precendent.

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Have McCutcheon or Ching chaired a hearing?  As long as I can remember there have been non legal people involved but the chair seems to always have legal training especially on complex issues.  You must admit it is a bit of an overkill to have a QC deliberating on a whip charge that has been admitted and where penalty has been set by precendent.

yes, fair point.

[billy connolly]

On 23/11/2020 at 10:11 AM, Freda said:

Both McCutcheon and Ching were jockeys in the first instance,  no legal training there.

That's the irony, an ordinary jockey (Ching) adjudicating against a class jockey (Johnson) !

 

On 23/11/2020 at 10:43 AM, Chief Stipe said:

Have McCutcheon or Ching chaired a hearing?

I know Ching, I've never rated him but he does have experience as a stipendiary steward, J.C.A. member and jockey, he's chaired many J.C.A. hearings.
 

[billy connolly]

On 23/11/2020 at 9:38 AM, billy connolly said:

Another aspect of our judicial system I find disturbing is having former R.I.U. stewards appointed to the J.C.A.

Both Ching and McCutcheon are former R.I.U. stipendiary stewards, this is not only manifestly wrong it defeats the sole purpose of having an independent Judicial Control Authority.

You don't see former Police prosecutors appointed as District and High Court judges !

Cromwell Stipendiary Stewards Report - Friday 27th November 2020

Stewards: M. Davidson (Chairman), J. Oatham, R. Haley
JCA Committee: P. Knowles (chair) 

Suspensions: - 
Race 3.) T. Jonker (Quella Regazza) [Rule 638 (1) (d)] - Shifting ground - Suspended to 8 December (4 days) 
Race 5.) M. Gestain (Riverfalls) [Rule 638 (1) (d)] - Shifting ground - Suspended to 10 December (5 days)
Race 3.) C. Johnson (Hombre) [Rule 638 (1) (d)] - Shifting ground - Suspended to 12 December (6 days)

According to below link the sole JCA Committee member Paul Knowles was sacked by the board of Forbury Park Trotting Club and was also a former RIU stipendiary steward !

There is absolutely NO way should one man (Knowles) be at liberty to wipe out the livelihood of licence holders, IMO the old (voluntary) club committee judicial system worked far better than today's model.

https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/racing/racing-forbury-park-chief-sacked