curious Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Newmarket said: So 50 treatments for just under a grand, yes your right, not too expensive. If it’s that good, you would think every trainer in NZ would be trying it. Why aren’t they? Not quite sure what you mean Newmarket. It's a legitimate treatment for the things that have been indicated, particularly the likes of tendon injury rehabilitation which wouldn't be a direct concern of trainers wrt horses at or near the racing stage. The only times I would think trainers might use it with racing horses are as indicated above, those troubled by some osteoarthritis, for example. I imagine most trainers and owners would then consider using it on veterinary advice as part of the treatment protocol. I wouldn't exactly describe it as "that good" even for those things but as an option to consider. I don't get what you mean by "every trainer would be trying it"? That sounds like if feeding horses barley is that good then "every trainer would be trying it". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 16 minutes ago, curious said: Not quite sure what you mean Newmarket. It's a legitimate treatment for the things that have been indicated, particularly the likes of tendon injury rehabilitation which wouldn't be a direct concern of trainers wrt horses at or near the racing stage. The only times I would think trainers might use it with racing horses are as indicated above, those troubled by some osteoarthritis, for example. I imagine most trainers and owners would then consider using it on veterinary advice as part of the treatment protocol. I wouldn't exactly describe it as "that good" even for those things but as an option to consider. I don't get what you mean by "every trainer would be trying it"? That sounds like if feeding horses barley is that good then "every trainer would be trying it". Yes, I understand what you are saying. Every trainer in both codes, would have horses that could benefit from this treatment, at some stage in their stables. But why do some trainers know nothing about it? And how come not every vet suggests using it? And why does every stable not try it? What are your views on using it, good for horse or not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 10 hours ago, Newmarket said: Yes, I understand what you are saying. Every trainer in both codes, would have horses that could benefit from this treatment, at some stage in their stables. But why do some trainers know nothing about it? And how come not every vet suggests using it? And why does every stable not try it? What are your views on using it, good for horse or not? There are some doubts about the efficacy of the treatment although it appears in general clinical trials to have shown it does reduce inflammation. As with any profession there are some vets who continue the old ways of treatment and perhaps more progressive types that give more modern treatments a go. Curious in fairness to other posters yes you could say there has been some opinions expressed that are well off the mark however the discussion itself has been interesting and no doubt educational for some. As I said in a previous post personally until this topic was raised I had not heard of the treatment as I'm sure many owners and trainers haven't. Now that I have heard of it I would give it a go on a horse that had soundness issues. In fact I wish it had been around when one of the old mans horses was in training. It had a chronic knee injury that may have responded to this sort of treatment - we tried everything even green lipped mussel powder in large quantities in his feed - the horse's not the old man's. Was a very good horse all the same. I think one reason the onlooker gets a bit perturbed by ACS is that there has been a fair amount of advertising/marketing spin associated with it that creates the impression that it is a performance "cure-all". Visions of blood letting, spinning blood and multiple injections into horses stimulates the imagination. The blood spinning on a large practical scale was developed during World War 2 to assist in the treatment of burns victims. The spinning or fractionation by centrifuge separates the plasma from the red blood cells. It is the plasma that contains a lot of healing proteins. It is very old technology however newer techniques fractionate the blood contents even further so it is possible to isolate specific proteins for specific purposes. If you process the blood from an individual and use the extracts from that same blood to treat the donor then there is very little chance of an adverse reaction. Now the debate on BOAY has been interesting and is what I would call "dialectic learning" - i.e. learning through investigating or debating different opinions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Curious in fairness to other posters yes you could say there has been some opinions expressed that are well off the mark however the discussion itself has been interesting and no doubt educational for some. As I said in a previous post personally until this topic was raised I had not heard of the treatment as I'm sure many owners and trainers haven't. Now that I have heard of it I would give it a go on a horse that had soundness issues. In fact I wish it had been around when one of the old mans horses was in training. It had a chronic knee injury that may have responded to this sort of treatment - we tried everything even green lipped mussel powder in large quantities in his feed - the horse's not the old man's. Was a very good horse all the same. Yes, fair point, and it's threads like this that hopefully arrive at more accurate information rather than the myths that are being bandied about. Likewise, if I had a horse that I thought this might be helpful for, I certainly would be having a conversation about that option with my vet. I think the bit that you highlighted above pretty much highlights what is known about its effectiveness as I understand it. "Veterinarians commonly use ACS in athletic horses when corticosteroid use no longer shows beneficial effects, mainly in chronic OA cases. Lameness generally improves after the second administration, with resolution occurring after the third or fourth. The effects of ACS treatment typically last three months to a year in joints that are not responsive to other intra-articular therapies. A considerable amount of data suggests that ACS use has beneficial effects, but the findings of experimental and clinical trials are inconsistent." Edited July 6, 2018 by curious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 Intetesting comments on Facebook. Makes a valid point about certain horses getting injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 22 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Intetesting comments on Facebook. Makes a valid point about certain horses getting injured. She should have shut up before she mentioned the nth American horses. it's quite common for the top 3yo's over there to retire to stud at the end of that year. The 3yo season up there is the most important one for making stallions. of the stallions mentioned above sportswriter is the only one who retired from injury during middle of their season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 Maybe they need to look into this also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 On 7/09/2018 at 8:46 AM, Newmarket said: Maybe they need to look into this also. It has been looked into and is legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Richie said: It has been looked into and is legal Dont you think punters should know which horses are using this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Dont you think punters should know which horses are using this? I can see your point but don't agree with it.No different to horses that get fed differently to other stables or any other variables that may affect a horses performance.Should we know which ones worked well and which ones cleaned up their tucker,which ones didn't.Which ones got new shoes ,which driver had the flu so may not be feeling 100%.If trainer been at stables all time or if they been on holiday.If trainers wife been shagging or drinking with another stable drivers. I think gold injections,that are being used by other trainers, should be more notifiable than ACS But that is just my opinion and I know some on here just look for any opportunity to put the boot into All Stars stable,even though their trainer and stable drivers been outed the last week. I do eventually think that ACS will have a stand down period,just because of the wrong perception by some industry leaders about it, but at the moment it just as legal as feeding oats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 All good richie, Wonder when some journo will ask questions about this!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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