Chief Stipe Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Racing Victoria is investigating surrogacy claims in the racing industry. Photo: Getty Images AFP INDUSTRY Racing authorities probe serious breeding breach Article Author 12:12PM16 February 2021 0 Comments Racing authorities have been asked to probe claims surrogate mares have been used to breed horses in a serious breach of the sport’s rules. Investigators from Racing Victoria have been handed a file from a former employee of a major breeding operation. It alleges a surrogate was used for a champion mare that was struggling to conceive. A surrogate was used in another case to carry a foal that became a multiple Group 1 winner earning millions of dollars in prizemoney. Authorities have also been handed text messages that purportedly show a veterinarian’s involvement in the scheme. One text speaks of artificially inseminating a broodmare, then indicates two other mares are ready to carry the foal. “Glad to say that (horse name redacted) has read the textbook this cycle,” the message says. “I have done a split AI 6hrs before and during ovulation. The rest is up to her. I have two mares in synchrony so as well as it can be here. “Let you know in just over a week if we recover an embryo. “(Horse name redacted) still holding a HF but hope to see it move this week and will time nicely with other recips.” The word “recips” means recipient mares. RV has declined to confirm or deny whether its stewards are probing the breeding operation after the Herald Sun last week sent questions to the body about the program. Embryo transfer involves recovering an embryo from a donor mare after conception — either through artificial insemination (AI) or natural breeding — and transferring it to another mare, known as a recipient mare. The recipient mare then becomes pregnant and carries the foal to term. A mare is a female horse four years or older. It is understood the whistleblower wants an indemnity in return for his co-operation, telling the Herald Sun the information on the breeding operation was “explosive”. The rules of breeding for thoroughbred racing are set out in the Australian Stud Book. There are strict guidelines regarding breeding and the identification of thoroughbreds in the industry. In thoroughbred racing, horses must be naturally bred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racing Victoria is investigating surrogacy claims in the racing industry. Photo: Getty Images AFP INDUSTRY Racing authorities probe serious breeding breach Article Author 12:12PM16 February 2021 0 Comments Racing authorities have been asked to probe claims surrogate mares have been used to breed horses in a serious breach of the sport’s rules. Investigators from Racing Victoria have been handed a file from a former employee of a major breeding operation. It alleges a surrogate was used for a champion mare that was struggling to conceive. A surrogate was used in another case to carry a foal that became a multiple Group 1 winner earning millions of dollars in prizemoney. Authorities have also been handed text messages that purportedly show a veterinarian’s involvement in the scheme. One text speaks of artificially inseminating a broodmare, then indicates two other mares are ready to carry the foal. “Glad to say that (horse name redacted) has read the textbook this cycle,” the message says. “I have done a split AI 6hrs before and during ovulation. The rest is up to her. I have two mares in synchrony so as well as it can be here. “Let you know in just over a week if we recover an embryo. “(Horse name redacted) still holding a HF but hope to see it move this week and will time nicely with other recips.” The word “recips” means recipient mares. RV has declined to confirm or deny whether its stewards are probing the breeding operation after the Herald Sun last week sent questions to the body about the program. Embryo transfer involves recovering an embryo from a donor mare after conception — either through artificial insemination (AI) or natural breeding — and transferring it to another mare, known as a recipient mare. The recipient mare then becomes pregnant and carries the foal to term. A mare is a female horse four years or older. It is understood the whistleblower wants an indemnity in return for his co-operation, telling the Herald Sun the information on the breeding operation was “explosive”. The rules of breeding for thoroughbred racing are set out in the Australian Stud Book. There are strict guidelines regarding breeding and the identification of thoroughbreds in the industry. In thoroughbred racing, horses must be naturally bred.
Freda Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 The numbers of mares covered by popular stallions these days is enormous, far more than could ever be achieved without veterinary help. It is a stretch to think that 'extra' assistance is not also given when required. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Freda said: The numbers of mares covered by popular stallions these days is enormous, far more than could ever be achieved without veterinary help. It is a stretch to think that 'extra' assistance is not also given when required. With those huge numbers there has been a huge technology boost that helps offset the work a stallion has to do . In the days when i was working on the studs the vets manually palpated and gave a best guess at when the mare was going to be ready to ovulate and serve , and often the stallion could do a covering only to find that the mare needs to be served again and again because she hasn't gone off and the vet was only making an experienced guess . With the tools they have now they can tell much more accurately when the mare is going to ovulate and be ready to cover , so the stallion isn't covering unnecessarily . 100 used to be a huge number to cover but now because a lot of the time one covering can often do the job a stallion can do the large numbers we see , and often not doing a lot more than the were in the bad old days . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Also tho , with that advanced technology comes the large vet bills because mares will be scanned day after day until primed to ovulate . Iv'e heard some instances where the vet bills have been more than a 4/5k service fee . Can't remember his name , but the old vet up Wanganui way stills does manual palpation , well was 6/7 years ago , those bills were great to get . And he didn't often get it wrong . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 I think you may have both missed the mare surrogacy allegation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Nope. Just an extension of the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 Really? A champion mare has an egg fertilised in situ (we presume) and then the embryo is transplanted to a surrogate mare. How many embryo's? What is the parentage? Presumably a major stud and stallion if the mare was a champion racehorse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 24 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I think you may have both missed the mare surrogacy allegation. Your story showed veterinarian intervention was used . 2 hours ago, Freda said: It is a stretch to think that 'extra' assistance is not also given when required. I think this covers the understanding that veterinarian intervention was used . Be interesting when further details emerge . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 13 hours ago, nomates said: Your story showed veterinarian intervention was used . Of course Veterinarian intervention was required. They were extracting an embryo! That is against the rules of Thoroughbred breeding. Obviously the "Champion Mare" was unable to carry the foal to term OR they were protecting her because of her value. This type of procedure opens up all sorts of possible manipulation. It isn't a simple case of AI. Shame Colin Wightman isn't online anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Ha.Col would have been saying ' I told you so' and rubbing his hands with glee..as well as the rorts and kickbacks in sales.as well as the lack of documentation that used to accompany overseas sales. May have changed now, haven't sold one overseas for a good while. The practice of 'reinforcing' a service is A.I in any language.but still done. Anyone who thinks that everyone obeys the rules and plays nice needs their head read. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 42 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: This type of procedure opens up all sorts of possible manipulation. Most of which are probably happening in isolated cases all over the place . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, nomates said: Most of which are probably happening in isolated cases all over the place . So does financial fraud. Doesn't make it right does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, Freda said: Anyone who thinks that everyone obeys the rules and plays nice needs their head read. AI and/or reinforcing are different debates. Surrogacy with the transplantation of embryo's is a completely different level of skulduggery with long term consequences to the breed. As for having my "head read" - of course I don't believe the rules are followed in all aspects of racing. That's why there is a need for the RIU. You can't bang on about the inconsistency one week and then excuse it the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 45 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: AI and/or reinforcing are different debates. Surrogacy with the transplantation of embryo's is a completely different level of skulduggery with long term consequences to the breed. That's why there is a need for the RIU. You can't bang on about the inconsistency one week and then excuse it the next. You think the RIU are a bastion of consistency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 AI reinforcement has been going on globally for decades. I've seen it happen in at least 3 jurisdictions. Embryo transplants are another story. Not allowed but what is the harm or big deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 minute ago, curious said: Not allowed but what is the harm or big deal? So I take it from that statement you don't see any harm or big deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 18 minutes ago, Freda said: You think the RIU are a bastion of consistency? You know I don't think that. But if you are going to be ambivalent about one set of rules why not all of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: So I take it from that statement you don't see any harm or big deal? Correct. What is the issue in practice? I know it is a breach of the rules which is an issue but don't really see why it shouldn't be allowed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 Ultra Tune boss denies artificial breeding claims at elite stud Racing Victoria stewards are investigating claims of embryo transplantation at Ultra Thoroughbreds, owned by multi-millionaire businessman and entrepreneur Sean Buckley. Among the claims, it’s suspected Ultra Thoroughbreds used surrogates for champion mare Miss Andretti, as well as Strikeline – the dam of last year’s Australian Horse of the Year, Nature Strip – who were struggling to conceive. Embryo transplantation is forbidden in the racing and breeding industry. Jamie Kah steers Nature Strip to victory in the Lightning Stakes at Flemington last Saturday.CREDIT:GETTY IMAGES According to a source close to the Racing Victoria investigation, who is not authorised to speak publicly, it’s suspected that at least two foals may have been born this season out of embryo transplantation – a filly out of Miss Andretti and a colt out of Strikeline – which were sired by Ultra Thoroughbreds’ stallion Addictive Nature in late 2019. The Australian Stud Book, which guides thoroughbred breeding, clearly states a horse produced by any form of artificial breeding is not eligible for the stud book, meaning it is not permitted to race or breed for thoroughbred purposes. However, the Australian Stud Book says it has not received any paperwork regarding the foals. Racing Victoria has received photos of the embryos and foals in recent days from a disgruntled former employee, which has triggered its investigation. "The stewards are in the formative stages of an investigation that relates to thoroughbred breeding," Racing Victoria spokesperson Shaun Kelly said. "We don't intend to comment on the specifics of that investigation at this time." While Mr Buckley is the owner of Ultra Thoroughbreds, other employees are responsible for implementing its breeding program. Mr Buckley told The Age he will co-operate with any investigation. “I have bred over 700 foals in 17 years of breeding. I am well aware of the Australian Stud Book rules. I have always rigorously sought to comply with them,” Mr Buckley said. “I am aware that a disgruntled employee, against whom I have already commenced Supreme Court action, has made various allegations. The details of those allegations I am at this stage unaware of. “I have been advised by RVL that they are making enquiries. I intend to fully co-operate with any enquiry as is my duty and responsibility. I have a completely clear conscience.” Mr Buckley, the multi-millionaire founder of Ultra Tune, is currently involved in legal proceedings in the Supreme Court seeking an order to ban his former partner Jennifer Cole and former employee Anthony Swords from distributing audio recordings between Mr Buckley and Ms Cole. Ultra Thoroughbreds has a small but successful operation, which includes a 460-acre stud farm based in Willowmavin, just out of Kilmore, known as Barree Stud. About 20 staff work for Ultra Thoroughbreds. Nature Strip heads their success stories. The champion sprinter, who on Saturday won his sixth group 1 race to take his career earnings beyond $6 million, was last year crowned the Australian Horse of the Year. Racing Victoria would not say whether integrity officers have inspected the Kilmore property since learning of the claims. Ultra Thoroughbreds' success stories include the career of Australia's champion racehorse of 2007, Miss Andretti, and the Cox Plate win of Shamus Award in 2013. In 2014, they purchased a stud farm in the Hunter Valley, NSW, now known as Golden Grove Stud, where they bred Nature Strip, however most of the stud farm's mares were brought back to Melbourne in late 2018 when they purchased another 120-acre property adjoining Mr Buckley's Barree Stud. Racing NSW chairman of stewards Marc Van Gestel told The Age he had not received any complaints about Ultra Thoroughbreds. If the foals in question were bred naturally, they would be worth a significant amount as yearlings due to their pedigrees. One colt out of Miss Andretti, by Exceed And Excel, sold for $460,000 as a yearling in 2011. But the value of any horse found to have been artificially bred is virtually nothing in the racing industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, curious said: Correct. What is the issue in practice? I know it is a breach of the rules which is an issue but don't really see why it shouldn't be allowed. Well it hardly helps the breed does it. Hell why don't you just clone them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 32 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Well it hardly helps the breed does it. Hell why don't you just clone them. i don't condone breaking rules for the sake of it - or, in this case, commercial gain - but, as Curious has alluded, what is the harm really ? As long as we don't see multiple full siblings in a year, I can't see any disadvantage to the breed. If genetic modification was taking place, that would be a different story indeed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Freda said: As long as we don't see multiple full siblings in a year, I can't see any disadvantage to the breed. If genetic modification was taking place, that would be a different story indeed. Well you are actually genetically modifying the breed by essentially breeding from mares that are incapable of breeding. There are lots of consequences of that. Over time the breed may become incapable of breeding naturally and so will be reliant on surrogates. Those surrogates could be from any breed. For example what advantage would there be to use a Clydesdale cross as a surrogate? A lot more room and nutrient for the foal to grow. Sure the drop at the end of the pregnancy might be severe but I'm sure they'd work out a way around that. It may encourage selective breeding to develop a faster thoroughbred by trading off the mares breeding capability. The mare only has to produce eggs. She could start breeding from the moment she starts ovulating and continue racing. She could effectively produce 5 foals before she finishes racing. It reminds me what selective breeding has done to some dog breeds. The French Bulldog being a classic case. The male is too short in the legs and is incapable of serving a bitch. So AI is used. The bitch's pelvis is too narrow to allow natural birth so it requires a Cesarean birth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Well you are actually genetically modifying the breed by essentially breeding from mares that are incapable of breeding. There are lots of consequences of that. Over time the breed may become incapable of breeding naturally and so will be reliant on surrogates. Those surrogates could be from any breed. For example what advantage would there be to use a Clydesdale cross as a surrogate? A lot more room and nutrient for the foal to grow. Sure the drop at the end of the pregnancy might be severe but I'm sure they'd work out a way around that. It may encourage selective breeding to develop a faster thoroughbred by trading off the mares breeding capability. The mare only has to produce eggs. She could start breeding from the moment she starts ovulating and continue racing. She could effectively produce 5 foals before she finishes racing. It reminds me what selective breeding has done to some dog breeds. The French Bulldog being a classic case. The male is too short in the legs and is incapable of serving a bitch. So AI is used. The bitch's pelvis is too narrow to allow natural birth so it requires a Cesarean birth. Yes, have to agree with that, we have cruelly modified many dog breeds to be incapable of survival without help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimbu Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I would imagine a few studs, particularly in Australia, might be somewhat more conservative with their practices in the upcoming breeding season whether or not this accusation is proven. I bet there are a few jangled nerves on both sides of the Tasman atm. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Beau Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 On 16/02/2021 at 6:41 PM, nomates said: Also tho , with that advanced technology comes the large vet bills because mares will be scanned day after day until primed to ovulate . Iv'e heard some instances where the vet bills have been more than a 4/5k service fee . Can't remember his name , but the old vet up Wanganui way stills does manual palpation , well was 6/7 years ago , those bills were great to get . And he didn't often get it wrong . Bill Stewart or his father. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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