Guest CrossCodes Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I was looking at a few trainers stats today and there are some real shockers. After today's racing Jim Pender is 75 starters without a winner this season, Ken Duncan who sends around a lot of jumpers is 85 starters for the season without a winner. Makes you wonder how and why they can keep going? There are probably some other stats out there just as bad but these were a couple that I bought were pretty ordinary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poisoned Dwarf Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 " we can't survive unless we win races " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, CrossCodes said: I was looking at a few trainers stats today and there are some real shockers. After today's racing Jim Pender is 75 starters without a winner this season, Ken Duncan who sends around a lot of jumpers is 85 starters for the season without a winner. Makes you wonder how and why they can keep going? There are probably some other stats out there just as bad but these were a couple that I bought were pretty ordinary. Good post. Viewing horses prior to the race I see numerous horses presented each time in a state of unreadiness. Contrast this with the Baker/Forseman horse who are nearly always ready to go. For f*** sakes if these trainers don't know how to get a horse ready perhaps they should get out to Cambridge track and get some incite. Better still try to get some info from within the Baker stable as obviously they are using the latest techniques or aides. One thing I notice is whenever a Baker horse disappoints then next time they are trying something different. That doesn't seem to happen with those on a 70+ losing run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 hours ago, CrossCodes said: I was looking at a few trainers stats today and there are some real shockers. After today's racing Jim Pender is 75 starters without a winner this season, Ken Duncan who sends around a lot of jumpers is 85 starters for the season without a winner. Makes you wonder how and why they can keep going? There are probably some other stats out there just as bad but these were a couple that I bought were pretty ordinary. The data speaks for itself These guys are in the business of thoroughbred bloodstock, training horses, to a lot of them, must surely be a sideline, all those pain in the arse owners 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelTheFear Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Unfortunately many trainers not in the limelight do not get the best of horse flesh to work with. They hope to one day, mostly by sheer luck, have a horse good enough to win a few races, perhaps be something better than average. It is their lifestyle, training, breaking and conditioning. These are the battlers, once held up as the heart of horse racing. I have seen a trainer, battling with this type of situation, get a very good horse, suddenly owners want their horse trained by said trainer. Once the career of the horse is over and the trainers stats suffer, the owners dry up again and it is back to usual. Of course, I am speaking from the past so perhaps things have changed and these trainers are useless. As a punter, it is easy to cull a race day field of horses trained by such trainers, maybe miss one or two winners. Just my thoughts, no expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Entirely unfair to compare Baker with Duncan, one has $million horse flesh and the other a few $thousand ones. A totally different proposition and it wouldn’t be wise to say Duncan or anyone else dealing in the low dollar sires as an out of form trainer without knowing a hell of a lot more facts than just their strike rate, that dopey Thomass material that most intelligent people can’t subscribe too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) I think you have to assess the performance based on the horses themselves. If they are unfit/unready as per The Centaur, that is perhaps a different scenario. But if it happens to be that they are just turning up with slow horses (if that is all they have), how are you expected to get more winners? Edited July 25, 2018 by mardigras 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Yes, I'd agree with that. I don't think raw strike rate data is of much use in assessing training ability. If used, it needs to be in relation to the individual runners' chances based on ability and fitness. Of course you could argue that continually turning up with horses too slow to win is poor performance but then we don't know that those horses don't have undisclosed ability being hampered by some problem that the trainer is trying to sort out albeit unsuccessfully. Sometimes the only way to test that effectively may be on raceday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Not to mention Ken Duncans will be doing quite a bit of flat racing to get fit for the fences, sacrificial races if you like. I think something that is heavily underestimated these days in training horses is trainers and their buying bench at the sales, many have owners with deep pockets and buy plenty of quality horse flesh and the way the media is these days some of these trainers only need have one good horse going around and they are flying according to the public/trackside not to mention if that horse is by a locally based sire the hype and PR is doubled by the studs to get the stallion mares , press coverage etc. This in turn is a self fulfilling prophecy and the owners want their horses trained by those stables as they all think that trainer has a particularly affinity with that breed of horse and they hear them mentioned regularly in the racing news and on TS ,not to mention they'd probably be better and have a better more authentic experience being trained by some local trainer with a smaller team. Can you imagine Te Akau with a team of Zeds,Battle Paints .Sufficient,Remind,Howbadouwantit,Fully Fledged compared to Savabeels,Fastnet Rocks ,Redoubtes Choice,Pins etc their performance would be a helluva lot different for sure. But the purchasing of those horses is really now part of their training if you get me. Not disrespect to those above stallions either as they have all done very well from their given opportunities but plenty would turn their nose up at racing those compared to what the big stables have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 11 hours ago, barryb said: Entirely unfair to compare Baker with Duncan, one has $million horse flesh and the other a few $thousand ones. A totally different proposition and it wouldn’t be wise to say Duncan or anyone else dealing in the low dollar sires as an out of form trainer without knowing a hell of a lot more facts than just their strike rate, that dopey Thomass material that most intelligent people can’t subscribe too. Agree Bazza... ...it's like comparing chups with stuffing foi gras down ya gob... For example Andrew Campbell's had a shocking run since hitting Cambridge... ...his neddys got the virus and that's a pain in the ass that not even a box of chups could overcome The stable secrets of Baker should be common knowledge by now...feeding, general training regimes etc.. ...and his race day strategy is very similar to Gai's...race handy and pressure them... ..you need fit neddys for that and it'd be interesting to know how many of Bakers break down... plenty of Waterhouses do...and they don't eat dopey chups either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CrossCodes Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 And Ken Duncan breaks the drought with his first win for the season, well done ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poisoned Dwarf Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Onya " Dunga " !!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.