EPO (Recombinant Human Erythropoietin) Use As A PED in Horses: Fact or Fiction

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, the galah said:

Yes would be the answer to both.The cost of each test mentioned would be what comes out of his budget for testing.

opps,the "and his research was continued to be funded with new parameters" actually doesn't apply to the new york man. They are trying to be pro active in uncovering doping. I had thought i had typed that bit onto the bottom paragraph of my original post,and when it didn't appear i wondered where it went to,so that explains that.

Proactive?  Really?  This Maylin is an 81 year old dinosaur who judging by his public utterances is past his use by date with modern science having passed him by.  Scollay has been equally disappointing in her public utterances and she heads the Kentucky Thoroughbred testing regime.

I give Maylin less than a year in his current job.  Scollay might get a bit longer as she has done some reasonable work on equine muscoskeletal injuries.

Fishman and Robinson the suppliers were conmen who peddled common readily available drugs as something special.

Now all the anti-racing media, the click bait merchants like Paulick and Butterfly and all the failed owner, trainer and punter conspirators have been thrown a good few sacks of nothing more than chaff to chew on.

[Blossom lady]

Aranesp was all the go back in my day and it definitely worked. Horses grew a leg on it

[Chief Stipe]

40 minutes ago, Blossom lady said:

Aranesp was all the go back in my day and it definitely worked. Horses grew a leg on it

How long ago was that?

[Chief Stipe]

Actually I'm not going to play this game @Blossom lady.  Aranesp was first approved for human use in 2001 and large scale production began.

There were anti-doping tests available for it soon after.   So you only had a few years at most to benefit from it.  Assuming of course that you administered the right amount to achieve an improvement in performance and didn't make your horses sick.

In the 20 years since testing technology has advanced considerably and nowadays you wouldn't have a shit show in hell of getting away with using it or any rHuEPO.

[hunterthepunter]

50 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Actually I'm not going to play this game @Blossom lady.  Aranesp was first approved for human use in 2001 and large scale production began.

There were anti-doping tests available for it soon after.   So you only had a few years at most to benefit from it.  Assuming of course that you administered the right amount to achieve an improvement in performance and didn't make your horses sick.

In the 20 years since testing technology has advanced considerably and nowadays you wouldn't have a shit show in hell of getting away with using it or any rHuEPO.

fence posts were hard to buy back in the day day

[Blossom lady]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Actually I'm not going to play this game @Blossom lady.  Aranesp was first approved for human use in 2001 and large scale production began.

There were anti-doping tests available for it soon after.   So you only had a few years at most to benefit from it.  Assuming of course that you administered the right amount to achieve an improvement in performance and didn't make your horses sick.

In the 20 years since testing technology has advanced considerably and nowadays you wouldn't have a shit show in hell of getting away with using it or any rHuEPO.

Wasn’t in the last 10 years. 
anti doping tests weren’t picking it up. 
you think of yourself as a genius how did we not make our horses sick? Or haven’t you read that online yet!

[Chief Stipe]

11 hours ago, Blossom lady said:

Wasn’t in the last 10 years. 
anti doping tests weren’t picking it up. 
you think of yourself as a genius how did we not make our horses sick? Or haven’t you read that online yet!

You clearly haven't been reading my posts on the subject.  

I find it bizarre that a horse trainer would come onto a public forum and admit to using a specific EPO on their horses sometime between 2001 and 2010.

As for you assertion that "anti-doping tests weren't picking it up" that may be so for your alleged activity.  However there was a test available and anti-doping tests WERE picking up the specific type of EPO you refer to.  

If my memory serves me correctly the first darbepoetin alfa (Aranesp) positive in sport was returned in 2002.  WADA was testing for it soon after it first came on the market.  Which wasn't all that hard to do as it is just another form of rHuEPO.

Now if by inference you assertion is that the NZ Racing jurisdiction wasn't testing for it when they could then that may well have been the case.  On that I can't comment because I don't know.

With regard to your question "why did we not make our horses sick?" - were you sure that the product you were using was actually Aranesp?  What UI were you administering?  If you look at the Kentucky/Scollay commissioned research ALL those treated with EPO exhibited visible signs of adverse reactions.  You probably considered similar reactions in your horses as localised and "just the jab".

So in summary - yes Aranesp is detectable and it was being tested for soon after it come onto the market

[Chief Stipe]

I remembered the first sporting positive for darbepoetin alfa (Aranesp).  It was at the 2002 Winter Olympics.  So one year after Aranesp being approved as a human medication.  Cross-country skiers Larisa Lazutina and Johan Muhlegg both Gold Medallists tested positive to darbepoetin alfa (Aranesp) at the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City 2002.  Three skiers returned positives to Aranesp at those games - the third was Olga Danilova.

https://www.espn.com/olympics/news/story?id=1746641

 

[Blossom lady]

12 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

You clearly haven't been reading my posts on the subject.  

I find it bizarre that a horse trainer would come onto a public forum and admit to using a specific EPO on their horses sometime between 2001 and 2010.

As for you assertion that "anti-doping tests weren't picking it up" that may be so for your alleged activity.  However there was a test available and anti-doping tests WERE picking up the specific type of EPO you refer to.  

If my memory serves me correctly the first darbepoetin alfa (Aranesp) positive in sport was returned in 2002.  WADA was testing for it soon after it first came on the market.  Which wasn't all that hard to do as it is just another form of rHuEPO.

Now if by inference you assertion is that the NZ Racing jurisdiction wasn't testing for it when they could then that may well have been the case.  On that I can't comment because I don't know.

With regard to your question "why did we not make our horses sick?" - were you sure that the product you were using was actually Aranesp?  What UI were you administering?  If you look at the Kentucky/Scollay commissioned research ALL those treated with EPO exhibited visible signs of adverse reactions.  You probably considered similar reactions in your horses as localised and "just the jab".

So in summary - yes Aranesp is detectable and it was being tested for soon after it come onto the market

I prefer to comment on what is my personal experience not what I google. It is quite clear to me that is all you do . 
you have made a lot of assumptions on what I wrote. The majority are wrong. 
One thing I will say is keep burying that head in the sand!!

[Chief Stipe]

9 hours ago, Blossom lady said:

I prefer to comment on what is my personal experience not what I google. It is quite clear to me that is all you do . 
you have made a lot of assumptions on what I wrote. The majority are wrong. 
One thing I will say is keep burying that head in the sand!!

I haven't made any assumptions on what you wrote.  You said Aranesp was in widespread use in your day.  I wouldn't be surprised if this was once again pure speculation on your part.  Quote:

On 8/02/2022 at 7:39 PM, Blossom lady said:

Aranesp was all the go back in my day and it definitely worked. Horses grew a leg on it

As for using Google as a research tool - yes I do use it.  You would have to be a ignorant Luddite if you didn't.  Shame your band leader's Neil Bennett and Archie Butterfly don't use it effectively.  The majority of what Butterfly @Archie Butterfly writes is crap which if he was a true Journalist he would have discovered by doing some simple research.

Anyone with a modicum of literacy will have seen that what I have written has come with legitimate references backed up by science.  I can only assume that you belong to the rumour mongering group that hides behind private online forums spouting bullshit driven by envy and jealousy.

So who is burying their head in the sand?  Certainly not me because I have done the research.  If there is widespread EPO doping in Harness Racing in NZ which hasn't been detected then it can't be from a lack of testing technology, resources or money which the RIB has.

If you want to spend unedifying and negative time scanning every race looking for turn around's in performance and then Chicken Licken shouting in online private forums or behind paywalls then go for it.  But what a sorry sorry existence.

BTW Archie's latest angle is also wrong that being the one where Trainers are timing administration so that a spike in EPO induced RBC occurs at race time.  He is following this line because the micro-dosing angle has fallen flat on its face.  So he has to find another way to milk this crap to keep people buying access to the other side of his paywall.  But this new angle is absolute BS which fails on a number of counts.  A spike can occur if a large amount of EPO is given - it isn't guaranteed nor will it be consistent.  So you would need to constantly monitor the RBC's of the horses being doped which would require a compliant Vet with the necessary testing technology.  It is all pointless anyway because testing of swabs would pick up the rHuEPO over a wide time period.  

But you keep banging that conspiracy drum @Blossom lady.  Sure one day another horse will return a positive to rHuEPO (I know of two in the last 10 years in OZ) and your lot will cry from the rooftops - "We told you so, it is only the tip of the iceberg.  The Feds only got lucky.  Been going on for years."

 

[Blossom lady]

8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I haven't made any assumptions on what you wrote.  You said Aranesp was in widespread use in your day.  I wouldn't be surprised if this was once again pure speculation on your part.  Quote:

As for using Google as a research tool - yes I do use it.  You would have to be a ignorant Luddite if you didn't.  Shame your band leader's Neil Bennett and Archie Butterfly don't use it effectively.  The majority of what Butterfly @Archie Butterfly writes is crap which if he was a true Journalist he would have discovered by doing some simple research.

Anyone with a modicum of literacy will have seen that what I have written has come with legitimate references backed up by science.  I can only assume that you belong to the rumour mongering group that hides behind private online forums spouting bullshit driven by envy and jealousy.

So who is burying their head in the sand?  Certainly not me because I have done the research.  If there is widespread EPO doping in Harness Racing in NZ which hasn't been detected then it can't be from a lack of testing technology, resources or money which the RIB has.

If you want to spend unedifying and negative time scanning every race looking for turn around's in performance and then Chicken Licken shouting in online private forums or behind paywalls then go for it.  But what a sorry sorry existence.

BTW Archie's latest angle is also wrong that being the one where Trainers are timing administration so that a spike in EPO induced RBC occurs at race time.  He is following this line because the micro-dosing angle has fallen flat on its face.  So he has to find another way to milk this crap to keep people buying access to the other side of his paywall.  But this new angle is absolute BS which fails on a number of counts.  A spike can occur if a large amount of EPO is given - it isn't guaranteed nor will it be consistent.  So you would need to constantly monitor the RBC's of the horses being doped which would require a compliant Vet with the necessary testing technology.  It is all pointless anyway because testing of swabs would pick up the rHuEPO over a wide time period.  

But you keep banging that conspiracy drum @Blossom lady.  Sure one day another horse will return a positive to rHuEPO (I know of two in the last 10 years in OZ) and your lot will cry from the rooftops - "We told you so, it is only the tip of the iceberg.  The Feds only got lucky.  Been going on for years."

 

The biggest assumption you made was that I was talking about NZ.

Another assumption was that drug testing works. 10-15 years ago if you got caught using epo you were bloody unlucky. Just because you read on the internet that there is a test for it in athletics doesn’t mean harness racing had up to date testing techniques. I cannot comment on the situation now .

The more you write on this subject it is quite obvious that you are quite clueless really. That must be why you dragged in a couple of other names to have a go at.

[Chief Stipe]

10 hours ago, Blossom lady said:

Just because you read on the internet that there is a test for it in athletics doesn’t mean harness racing had up to date testing techniques.

The test is the same and it would be pretty dumb of Racing Authorities to not have the same test.  As I said in an earlier post EPO positives have been found in Harness Racing therefore it follows they have a test and are using it.

10 hours ago, Blossom lady said:

I cannot comment on the situation now .

But you are and are inferring that cheating using EPO is happening.  What's more you haven't provided a shred of evidence.  Conversely I've posted science and evidence that shows the rumours are unfounded.

10 hours ago, Blossom lady said:

The more you write on this subject it is quite obvious that you are quite clueless really. That must be why you dragged in a couple of other names to have a go at.

Blossom you are getting desperate now resorting to ad hominem attacks.  Clueless?  Based on what has been written on this Topic any reasonable person would conclude that it isn't I who is clueless.

Yes I've called out people because in my opinion they are bringing Racing into disrepute with baseless allegations.  They have no evidence and when called out hide behind private online social media and paywalls.

So Blossom my advice to you and your mates is put up or shut up.

[Chief Stipe]

 

[Robalan]

Yes Chief, I remember you calling out people on baseless allegations when posts started surfacing about Mitchell Kerr

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Robalan said:

Yes Chief, I remember you calling out people on baseless allegations when posts started surfacing about Mitchell Kerr

That's incorrect.  Kerr was done for using PED'S was he?  As far as I know he wasn't.  Mail fraud in case you didn't know is quite a different kettle of fish.

[the galah]

22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's incorrect.  Kerr was done for using PED'S was he?

Kerr too honest to do that do you think chief?

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

Kerr too honest to do that do you think chief?

Well he is obviously not bright enough to run a sophisticated doping regime that can outwit all the Feds and the sophisticated testing that is available.

But that won't stop your conspiracy crap.

[Robalan]

CHIEF. Have a look back at your earlier postings on Kerr. You were defending him and stating that there was no evidence to support the claims against him, when there was ample evidence. Hence his life ban. He was not done for mail fraud by the way

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Robalan said:

CHIEF. Have a look back at your earlier postings on Kerr. You were defending him and stating that there was no evidence to support the claims against him, when there was ample evidence. Hence his life ban. He was not done for mail fraud by the way

No I was defending his right to a fair hearing rather than trial by social media.  I also made the point that if HRNZ and NZTR had proper systems in place then it would be impossible to oversell shares in a horse.

It isn't the first time and unless they put systems in place it won't be the last time this rort occurs.

He was done for fraud.  Documents were exchanged via electronic and paper means and loss of property occurred.  That's considered mail (wire) fraud in the USA.

BTW has he been charged by the Police yet?

Regardless what does it have to do with alleged EPO use?