Jim Pender calls a spade a spade!

[curious]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

If you look at the vaccinated versus unvaccinated cases at the moment the rate of infection is greater in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. 

Where did you get that data Chief?

[Shad]

That is right, local figures yesterday hospitalize 175 15% un 45% fully cant remember how many halfed and unknown.

[Chief Stipe]

53 minutes ago, curious said:

Where did you get that data Chief?

It is from official MOH data.  Unfortunately you have to apply to see the actual data now.  Not long ago when the stats started going against the narrative the data was no longer published for all to see.

[curious]

Hmmm ... almost double. And that pretty much correlated with the omicron takeoff.

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, curious said:

Hmmm ... almost double. And that pretty much correlated with the omicron takeoff.

Well I have seen some science research that shows that not only does the Pzifer vaccine not prevent Omicron infection it also makes you more vulnerable to infection.  I haven't seen any follow up yet on that research.

Of course "vaccinated" is now a loose term anyway given how quickly the vaccines efficacy wanes.

[Chief Stipe]

With 12,000 cases today it must be inevitable that a meeting will be cancelled soon.  Derby Day?

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Well I have seen some science research that shows that not only does the Pzifer vaccine not prevent Omicron infection it also makes you more vulnerable to infection.  I haven't seen any follow up yet on that research.

Of course "vaccinated" is now a loose term anyway given how quickly the vaccines efficacy wanes.

You'd think that NZTR would now move immediately to scrap all the vax pass requirements. They never understood the science and even in their latest Traffic Light missive they are still saying that we "must continue to prove that we can keep all participants safe and eliminate, or mitigate to the greatest possible extent, the risk of transmission of COVID-19."

Clearly, from the above data vaccination not only doesn't do that but probably does the opposite.

The data above is also consistent with that from the UK and Aus.

Edited February 25, 2022 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, curious said:

You'd think that NZTR would now move immediately to scrap all the vax pass requirements. They never understood the science and even in their latest Traffic Light missive they are still saying that we "must continue to prove that we can keep all participants safe and eliminate, or mitigate to the greatest possible extent, the risk of transmission of COVID-19."

Clearly, from the above data vaccination not only doesn't do that but probably does the opposite.

The data above is also consistent with that from the UK and Aus.

Judge Cook just overturned Police and Defence Force mandate.

Now half of us can put the brown shirts back in the bottom drawer and the other half can take the 0800 SNITCH line off speed dial.

Seriously though NZTR need to move quickly on adjusting their rules on Covid otherwise Derby Day will be off.

[curious]

Justice Cooke upheld the applicants’ claims that two rights in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 had been limited by the mandate – the right to refuse a medical treatment and the right to manifest religious beliefs.

“I accept [the lawyers] submission, however, that an obligation to receive a vaccine which a person objects to because it has been tested on cells derived from a human foetus, potentially an aborted foetus, does involve a limitation on the manifestation of a religious belief in “observance, practice, or teaching” of religion.”

He found the limitation of their fundamental rights was not reasonable, and demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

“I am not satisfied that the Crown has put forward sufficient evidence to justify the measures that have been imposed, even giving it some benefit of the doubt.

[Chief Stipe]

The Judgement in full.

561158050-Yardley-v-Minister-for-Workplace-Relations-and-Safety.pdf

[Shad]

How can it  become rule for them but not the rest, how fair is that, should be across the board tor everyone

[curious]

8 hours ago, Shad said:

How can it  become rule for them but not the rest, how fair is that, should be across the board tor everyone

Of course, the Crown may yet appeal this decision butI think it effectively does become the rule for everyone in the meantime. It creates a legal precedent and if other employers don't follow that, they are likely to become subject to similar legal action surely.

[Freda]

20 minutes ago, curious said:

Of course, the Crown may yet appeal this decision butI think it effectively does become the rule for everyone in the meantime. It creates a legal precedent and if other employers don't follow that, they are likely to become subject to similar legal action surely.

A commentator on TV news last night was at pains to stress that the judgement didn't apply to any other portion of society.  What qualification or backing he had to announce that I have no idea.. but that seems to be the party line at the moment.

[curious]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

A commentator on TV news last night was at pains to stress that the judgement didn't apply to any other portion of society.  What qualification or backing he had to announce that I have no idea.. but that seems to be the party line at the moment.

The decision doesn't per se but the precedent does imo. However, it only applies where orders such as this are not made for substantive public health reasons and there is little evidence of that and even then it would need to also require a booster shot to have much effect for that purpose. It can not be made for the purpose of continuity of business as was the case here. I don't think the NZTR mandates are any different.

[106] COVID-19 clearly involves a threat to the continuity of Police and NZDF services. That is because the Omicron variant in particular is so transmissible. But that threat exists for both vaccinated and unvaccinated staff. I am not satisfied that the Order makes a material difference, including because of the expert evidence before the Court on the effects of vaccination on COVID-19 including the Delta and Omicron variants.

[107] I should make it clear what this case is not about. The Order being set aside in the present case was not implemented for the purposes of limiting the spread of COVID-19. Health advice was that such a further mandate was not needed for this purpose. Neither should the Court’s conclusion be understood to question the effectiveness and importance of vaccination. The evidence shows that vaccination significantly improves the prospects of avoiding serious illness and death, even with the Omicron variant. It confirms the importance of a booster dose given the waning effect of the first two doses of the vaccine.

Edited February 25, 2022 by curious

[Shad]

Of course police and defense force way more important than us old commoners, but you never know things may turn later, enough to get my job back, should be for all, and yes an appeal a possibility, let's hope they drop the lot and let everyone get on with life

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Shad said:

Of course police and defense force way more important than us old commoners, but you never know things may turn later, enough to get my job back, should be for all, and yes an appeal a possibility, let's hope they drop the lot and let everyone get on with life

If they do , thye'll have something else lined up, this being the type of world we now live in.

 

[Shad]

59 minutes ago, Huey said:

If they do , thye'll have something else lined up, this being the type of world we now live in.

 

Yes I fear you maybe right