NZ Racing versus NZ Rugby

[Bloke]

 I only watch grassroot rugby and the odd All Black game. I love watching because Grass Roots Rugby reminds me of the 60s & 70s with the old grandstands, clubrooms, Floodlights around the playing fields which are trained on and the interviews with players.

Last year they showed the Reefton club play a game and it was their first season for quite some time because the Club has been in recess for many years. This brought the number of teams in the Buller Union to four and from this they pick a Buller Team for the Heartland Championship. 

East Coast has a similar amount of teams in their competition  and other small provinces are not much better with some Club teams having to call on payers in their 40s and 50s just to make up a team. You also have Clubs merging to make a team and there are additional clubs going into recess.

In the larger cities Auckland and Wellington the only thing keeping the game going is the polynessian  community. Once proud Rugby Clubs like Petone are down to a hand full of teams

Last year in The Dom Post there was a story about Naenae College with a roll of 700 odd only having 4 boys wanting to play Rugby. These Boys joined up with Hutt Valley High which has a roll of 2,000 and they could only muster 3 teams.

Wests Rugby which takes in from  Karori to Ngaio only has two senior social teams whilst Waterside Karori Football website states that they have 1,000 members and 100 teams.

Rugby has much bigger problems than the All Blacks

 

 

[Reefton]

7 minutes ago, Bloke said:

 I only watch grassroot rugby and the odd All Black game. I love watching because Grass Roots Rugby reminds me of the 60s & 70s with the old grandstands, clubrooms, Floodlights around the playing fields which are trained on and the interviews with players.

Last year they showed the Reefton club play a game and it was their first season for quite some time because the Club has been in recess for many years. This brought the number of teams in the Buller Union to four and from this they pick a Buller Team for the Heartland Championship. 

East Coast has a similar amount of teams in their competition  and other small provinces are not much better with some Club teams having to call on payers in their 40s and 50s just to make up a team. You also have Clubs merging to make a team and there are additional clubs going into recess.

In the larger cities Auckland and Wellington the only thing keeping the game going is the polynessian  community. Once proud Rugby Clubs like Petone are down to a hand full of teams

Last year in The Dom Post there was a story about Naenae College with a roll of 700 odd only having 4 boys wanting to play Rugby. These Boys joined up with Hutt Valley High which has a roll of 2,000 and they could only muster 3 teams.

Wests Rugby which takes in from  Karori to Ngaio only has two senior social teams whilst Waterside Karori Football website states that they have 1,000 members and 100 teams.

Rugby has much bigger problems than the All Blacks

 

 

Coast only has six senior teams and no second grade so not much better

Was Reefton playing at home?  If so of course it is in the middle of the racecourse.  Even if they survive for years yet Sharrock and Bernard and their mob intend to take their field and clubrooms away from them.  Not that the rugby crew believe me when I tell them that they are under threat.  I think they think I am making it up(in fact I think our Harness Racing Club is quite nonchalant about it as well)

Thanks Winston.  Much appreciated

 

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, Reefton said:

Or for that matter what the success rate of the current guy's assistants is(Plumtree has won one hasn't he?)  Not sure if any of the others have even coached a Super Rugby side let alone a title winning one..

Joe Schmidt has - coached Ireland to win three Six Nations Championships and a Grand Slam.  Arguably created the foundations for the current Irish success.

[Chief Stipe]

Greg Feek one of the 7 was assistant coach with Schmidt in Ireland.

[Chief Stipe]

What I'd like to know is what dirt does Sam Cane have on so many All Black coaches?  I've never rated him.

For that matter I've never rated Beuaden Barrett as a first five.

[mikeynz]

27 minutes ago, Bloke said:

 I only watch grassroot rugby and the odd All Black game. I love watching because Grass Roots Rugby reminds me of the 60s & 70s with the old grandstands, clubrooms, Floodlights around the playing fields which are trained on and the interviews with players.

Last year they showed the Reefton club play a game and it was their first season for quite some time because the Club has been in recess for many years. This brought the number of teams in the Buller Union to four and from this they pick a Buller Team for the Heartland Championship. 

East Coast has a similar amount of teams in their competition  and other small provinces are not much better with some Club teams having to call on payers in their 40s and 50s just to make up a team. You also have Clubs merging to make a team and there are additional clubs going into recess.

In the larger cities Auckland and Wellington the only thing keeping the game going is the polynessian  community. Once proud Rugby Clubs like Petone are down to a hand full of teams

Last year in The Dom Post there was a story about Naenae College with a roll of 700 odd only having 4 boys wanting to play Rugby. These Boys joined up with Hutt Valley High which has a roll of 2,000 and they could only muster 3 teams.

Wests Rugby which takes in from  Karori to Ngaio only has two senior social teams whilst Waterside Karori Football website states that they have 1,000 members and 100 teams.

Rugby has much bigger problems than the All Blacks

 

 

While the polynesian players have done so much good for our national team, supposedly, lots of white kids have moved on to other sports, who wants to have to play against school kids who are probably as big as Colin Meads was in his prime, jonah was a prime example.

Just like racing is heading rugby now is focused mostly around a few select places, super rugby bases, which also hold test matches, the NPC, has become what club rugby once was, club rugby has been demoted further, this years NPC is now a one pool of 14 teams, what benefit will unions like Southland ,Manawatu and the likes get by being celler dwellers season after season, the old NPC had  promotion/relegation, every match had a point, picture Southland as a example.losing its first 6 matches in this new format this year, how does one engender any interest in games if they are pointless, 

The biggest shambles was the last lions tour, played the All Blacks and the Super sides, over a century of tradition gone by not playing in the regions, but as I said before the provinces have been decimated by the elites so once again  pointless playing them under the present scenario  The old NPC, Shield scenario was the best around  look what they've done too it.

[Bloke]

30 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Coast only has six senior teams and no second grade so not much better

Was Reefton playing at home?  If so of course it is in the middle of the racecourse.  Even if they survive for years yet Sharrock and Bernard and their mob intend to take their field and clubrooms away from them.  Not that the rugby crew believe me when I tell them that they are under threat.  I think they think I am making it up(in fact I think our Harness Racing Club is quite nonchalant about it as well)

Thanks Winston.  Much appreciated

 

Yes Reefton were playing at home. The Rugby Fraternity being in denial is common through out the country. The Officials still wear the blazers with the badges, have big beer guts and the comb overs .

[Reefton]

49 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Joe Schmidt has - coached Ireland to win three Six Nations Championships and a Grand Slam.  Arguably created the foundations for the current Irish success.

So what?

Joe Schmidt has only just taken over as a selector(after Saturday) and has no coaching role with the AB's (other than being called in when Foster was crook with Covid before the first test and then the reports are varied about how much input he had).  He is not, and apart from that never has been, a part of the coaching group.

FFS get with the programme!

 

[Reefton]

48 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Greg Feek one of the 7 was assistant coach with Schmidt in Ireland.

So what?  He was also coached by NZ's second most successful Super Rugby Coach at the Crusaders one R Deans.  Another who got shafted by NZRFU when he ought to have got the top job based on his superior super rugby record.  And he may have been coached by the guy who perhaps should have the AB's job now

Feek is the scrum coach(replaced the bloke Cron didn't he?).  Scrums were hardly a shining light aspect in the AB's last three matches.

For all that I know eff all about coaching and eff all about Feek so who am I to critique him(or Foster for that matter) other than to point out known facts.

As I said previously this thread was started to compare the way NZRFU and NZTR operate not bag the shit out of one or more individuals who will be down in the dumps right now and have limited opportunity to respond.   Far be it from me to drive the boot in.

[Reefton]

35 minutes ago, Bloke said:

Yes Reefton were playing at home. The Rugby Fraternity being in denial is common through out the country. The Officials still wear the blazers with the badges, have big beer guts and the comb overs .

No doubt the field was looking in splendid condition just like the racecourse that runs around it.  Not that I am patting myself on the back like(but you lot are welcome to compliment its presentation if you like - I'm a bit down today so need some cheering up)

Edited July 18, 2022 by Reefton
spelling

[Bloke]

34 minutes ago, Reefton said:

No doubt the field was looking in splendid condition just like the racecourse that runs around it.  Not that I am patting myself on the back like(but you lot are welcome to compliment its presentation if you like - I'm a bit down today so need some cheering up)

It wasn't Wembley but from memory the field was in good condition. Some of the fields they play on in country areas are true "cow paddocks" but that is why I watch as it is grass roots Rugby .

I am a football man and I recall playing at Newmarket Park in Auckland which was supposed to be one of the top Football grounds and hosted overseas teams. That was a true shit hole and I think it was in the 1990s half of the ground slid down the bank and it is no more.

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Bloke said:

It wasn't Wembley but from memory the field was in good condition. Some of the fields they play on in country areas are true "cow paddocks" but that is why I watch as it is grass roots Rugby .

I am a football man and I recall playing at Newmarket Park in Auckland which was supposed to be one of the top Football grounds and hosted overseas teams. That was a true shit hole and I think it was in the 1990s half of the ground slid down the bank and it is no more.

'It wasn't Wembley'??????? I find that comment offensive and what's more you have hurt my feelings! I'm going to tell Aunty Jacinda on you

Edited July 18, 2022 by Reefton

[mumbles]

Many years ago it was possible for a Waikato country 1st fifteen to be very competitive against Hamilton schools.The likes of Te Awamutu with Baker,Bartie,Adam,and Serancke  and Matamata under George Simpkin who produced many Waikato stars.Now it Hamilton Boys High,St Pauls and St Peters who dominate and the parents wouldn't have it any other way.

[Chief Stipe]

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

So what?

Joe Schmidt has only just taken over as a selector(after Saturday) and has no coaching role with the AB's (other than being called in when Foster was crook with Covid before the first test and then the reports are varied about how much input he had).  He is not, and apart from that never has been, a part of the coaching group.

FFS get with the programme!

 

FFS Schmidt's been there coaching since Foster was ill.  He was appointed an All Black selector last December.  He and Feek are part of the seven and if you dont believe he has been providing input then I suggest you stop reading your old Reefton racebooks and get up to date.

[Chief Stipe]

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

As I said previously this thread was started to compare the way NZRFU and NZTR

Rubbish if you are doing that comparison then ultimately you are bagging individuals.  Most of the problem on racing lies with the inaction of key stakeholders.  

[Reefton]

55 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Rubbish if you are doing that comparison then ultimately you are bagging individuals.  Most of the problem on racing lies with the inaction of key stakeholders.  

shows how out of touch you really are becoming

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

FFS Schmidt's been there coaching since Foster was ill.  He was appointed an All Black selector last December.  He and Feek are part of the seven and if you dont believe he has been providing input then I suggest you stop reading your old Reefton racebooks and get up to date.

Schmidt was not part of the AB's set up until he became a selector after last weekend(well that is the story being stated in the newspapers)

Apart form that week pre the first test of course

[Chief Stipe]

21 hours ago, Reefton said:

shows how out of touch you really are becoming

Really?  What collectively have trainers and owners done to change things in recent years?

Nearlt all act individually driven by self interest.  Many are too scared to stick their head above the rampart.  

Riccarton is the classic example.  

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Really?  What collectively have trainers and owners done to change things in recent years?

Nearlt all act individually driven by self interest.  Many are too scared to stick their head above the rampart.  

Riccarton is the classic example.  

 

Pretty clear you are drifting well out of touch.  You know about as much about the ills of NZ racing as you know about track preparation and you for some reason have a Riccarton fixation.  Correcting the Riccarton issues (whatever they may be) will go only a tiny tiny way to alleviating the overall issues in NZ racing.  

Still I suppose while you are whinging about Riccarton you are giving poor old Pitty a break

 

[Chief Stipe]

On 20/07/2022 at 8:46 AM, Reefton said:

 

Pretty clear you are drifting well out of touch.  You know about as much about the ills of NZ racing as you know about track preparation and you for some reason have a Riccarton fixation.  Correcting the Riccarton issues (whatever they may be) will go only a tiny tiny way to alleviating the overall issues in NZ racing.  

Still I suppose while you are whinging about Riccarton you are giving poor old Pitty a break

 

I haven't drifted out of touch @Reefton and if by the remotest chance I have it wouldn't match the lack of collective action by stakeholders.  I've been consistent for over a decade in my criticism of what ails NZ Racing much of which I might say aligns with your views.  Where we differ is in how to fix it.  For example you want a farmer, a mull plough and no irrigation to fix the Riccarton Turf.  I believe it needs a complete renovation just like the major Australian tracks have had and have on a continuing annual basis.

But back to the lack of collective action by stakeholders - you could say that they get what they deserve.  The last real collective action was the Fair Tax effort.  In that instance NZTR were tacitly onside but when successful what did they do?  Pissed it away.  Arguably the whole industry pissed it away on stakes and entertainment rather than focusing on long term investment in tracks, training facilities and education.

Again we get back to self interest.  Was the leading Riccarton Trainer that took their horses to gallop at Rangiora on the turf one of those principled ones that said they'd never go back there?  Was it one of those Trainers that have aided and abetted the mismanagement of Riccarton and tenured Tim Mills?

On 20/07/2022 at 8:46 AM, Reefton said:

Correcting the Riccarton issues (whatever they may be) will go only a tiny tiny way to alleviating the overall issues in NZ racing.  

That's not reassuring that you don't what the issues are that affect Riccarton.

Why would you expect the same management and leading trainers that have for the last 25 years created the problem now "correct the issues"?  

I've said it time and time again.  The latest developments at Riccarton are not addressing the fundamental issues.  The AWT will be a white elephant that will suck the life (money and assets) out of South Island racing and the Riccarton Turf track will just get worse.  Any bets on how long the Guineas will last at Riccarton?

 

[diesel]

Have to wonder where NZ racing is heading.  I'm not overly sure about the synthetic tracks but it is early days I guess.  I shudder to think that the group 1 guineas races will go North but wouldn't be at all surprised.  Times have certainly changed and especially when you consider  our 3 big Cups in NZ no longer carry group 1 status.  

[Reefton]

On 21/07/2022 at 12:27 PM, Chief Stipe said:

@Reefton   Was the leading Riccarton Trainer that took their horses to gallop at Rangiora on the turf one of those principled ones that said they'd never go back there?  

 

I will ignore the vast majority of that post but assume with this quote you are suggesting it was MR Pitman who took his horses to Rangiora to gallop?  It bloody well wasn't but if they were a 'leading' trainer I imagine the have trained a bloody sight more winners than you or I and have a fair idea of what they are doing.  I am not going to question their judgment whoever they are.

Just back on the NZ Racing versus NZ Rugby comparison I note one S Hansen getting stuck in this week about the idiots running the NZ Rugby cutter.  Echoes of high profile racing people commenting on NZTR.

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Reefton said:

Just back on the NZ Racing versus NZ Rugby comparison I note one S Hansen getting stuck in this week about the idiots running the NZ Rugby cutter.  Echoes of high profile racing people commenting on NZTR.

My takeaway of reading Hansens comments were that his biggest criticism was the lack of continuity at senior exec level.  I note as a good Canterbury man he felt Tew should have contributed.

So what decisions has the Board made that are wrong?  Can't be appointing Foster has Hansen backs him as a Coach.