The Centaur Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 With multiple runners in several races at Taupo one feels this may be the norm for the rest of the season. Te Akau may pride themselves on their website but the information presented to the punter not great. Like telling us a horse is a top four chance and also not telling us who is giving that assessment. Could even be a machine. Having multiple runners is a put off betting wise. Take a look at todays trackwork "report" below. Just times. No opinion. No assessment of the work, the type of horse, reputation, readiness for racing etc etc. Mark Walker is not a patch on Jamie Richards for interview communication which is another minus so not much to look forward to. Te Akau trackwork highlights – Monday 22 August 2022 – No2 Sand: Romancing the Moon (S Weatherley) together with Illicit Miss (M Roustoby) worked over 1000 metres in 1.08.48, home in 38.36. Aotea Lad (M Roustoby) together with Cognito (R Shehaan) worked over 1000 metres in 1.05.09, home in 46.46. Luxembourg (N Parmar) worked over 1000 metres in 1.06.45, home in 38.32. Malborough Bay (T Harris) worked over an easy 1000 metres in 1.08.94, home in 38.91. Mohawk Brave (T Harris) worked over an easy 1000 metres in 1.06.36, home in 38.42. Amalfi Prince (T Harris) worked over an easy 1000 metres in 1.06.63, home in 38.24. Belle of the Ball (C Grylls) worked over an easy 1000 metres in 1.06.43, home in 38.12. One Kiss (C Grylls) worked over an easy 1000 metres in 1.09.7, home in 39.53. Skew Wiff (C Grylls) worked over an easy 1000 metres in 1.10.4, home in 38.13. I Choose You (J Kamaruddin) worked over an easy 1000 metres in 1.7.14, home in 37.96. Trieste (J Kamaruddin) worked over an easy 1000 metres in 1.05.38, home in 37.17. All Weather: Fashion Shoot (C Grylls) worked over an easy 1000 metres in 1.07.42, home in 38.99. Hayate (C Grylls) worked over an easy 1000 metres in 1.14.2, home in 42.57. Course Proper: Navalha (C Leveque) together with Fellini (S Weatherley) worked over an easy 1000 metres, home in 42.67. Zeitaku (T Harris) worked over an easy 1000 metres, home in 40.67. Savito (C Grylls) worked over an easy 1000 metres, home in 43.68. Synchronize (C Grylls) worked over an easy 1000 metres, home in 42.86. Sans Doute (C Grylls) worked over an easy 1000 metres, home 42.06. Dignitosa (C Grylls) worked over an easy 1000 metres, home in 41.92. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 40 minutes ago, The Centaur said: Take a look at todays trackwork "report" below. Just times. No opinion. No assessment of the work, the type of horse, reputation, readiness for racing etc etc. Remember when the industry funded track work reports? Where can I find the track work reports for Pike or Pitman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Remember when the industry funded track work reports? Where can I find the track work reports for Pike or Pitman? I don't think the industry ever funded trackwork reports apart from cooperating with say the Informant etc. In fact trackwork reporting was always a labour of love. The returns hardly covered the transport costs. At one stage I almost had a $100,000 fund cornered from the TAB but they pulled out at the last minute. However trackwork reports need to be made relevant. The timing of gallops may be a help to the trainer but are totally meaningless to the average enthusiast. The industry should employ someone fulltime in Cambridge whose duties would involve trackwork reporting, communication with participants and as a go between between sponsors, owners and marketing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, The Centaur said: However trackwork reports need to be made relevant. The timing of gallops may be a help to the trainer but are totally meaningless to the average enthusiast. Would the average enthusiast be looking at Te Akau's website? That said you will find that Te Akau will do a Raceday preview of their runners such as they did prior to the last Ruakaka meeting. More than most trainers do! Here is the Ruakaka preview - for what it was worth! Te Akau Ruakaka Saturday Preview 19 AUG 2022 Te Akau Racing has six horses entered on Saturday 20 August at Ruakaka. Weather: cloudy, track: Soft6, rail: out 3 metres. 2mls rain forecast Friday, 6mls Saturday. 2:17 p.m. R4 1 Lord Cosmos (3 g Pierro – Cosmic Powers) – Opie Bosson; resumed here three weeks ago running the fastest last 600m (33.7) for fourth in the 3YO 1100 metres, and steps up in the $85,000 Cambridge Stud Northland Breeders’ Stakes (Gr. 3, 1200m). He ended his previous campaign in May, quickening home for big win in the Waikato Equine Veterinary Centre 2YO Stakes (Listed, 1200m) at Te Rapa, running the fastest last 600m (34.4) on the day. Drawn barrier two, he rates a top three chance. Fixed odds: $3.20 & $1.30. 3:23 p.m. R6 1 Fierce Flight (4 g Flying Artie – First Bloom) – Opie Bosson; ran the fastest last 600m (34.8) on a day when dead-heating for first in the Maiden 1600 metres on 20 February at Hastings, and stepped up finishing fourth in the Rating 65 1600 metres on 16 March at Matamata. Spelled, he has trialled twice in preparation to resume in the $30,000 Rating 65 1300 metres. From barrier five, he rates a top four prospect if appreciative of the course at his first attempt – one of two in the event for the stable. Fixed odds: $8.00 & $2.80. 3:23 p.m. R6 4 Rip Van Gogh (5 g Rip Van Winkle – On the Move) – Joe Kamaruddin (a1); recorded his Maiden win over 1300 metres and finished second up in grade over 1200 metres before ending his campaign in March. Spelled, he has also trialled twice in preparation to resume in the $30,000 Rating 65 1300 metres. From barrier two, he has first four claims if he likewise is appreciative of the course at his first attempt. Fixed odds: $12.00 & $3.80. 3:58 p.m. R7 1 Prise De Fer (7 g Savabeel – Foiled) – Tayla Mitchell (a4); was in good form ending his previous campaign winning two of his last three starts, most recently the Canterbury Gold Cup (Gr. 3, 2000m) on 23 April at Riccarton. He circled widest and sustained a big finish for second in a trial on 4 August at Te Rapa, has weight relief to 58kg, and is capable of giving cheek fresh-up from barrier one in the $35,000 Open 1400 metres – a race featuring a Te Akau trio. Fixed odds: $7.00 & $2.30. 3:58 p.m. R7 2 Brando (5 g Savabeel – Saoirse) – Opie Bosson; was in good form ending his previous campaign and finished with a top run for second in the Easter Handicap (Gr. 3, 1600m) on 23 April at Pukekohe. He showed class with a soft trial win on 4 August at Te Rapa, and rates a top three proposition fresh-up from barrier three, despite carrying 60kgs, in the $35,000 Open 1400 metres. Fixed odds: $3.00 & $1.35. 3:58 p.m. R7 4 Markus Aurelius (6 g Ghibellines – Evancho) – Joe Kamaruddin (a1); won the Coupland’s Bakeries Mile (Gr. 2, 1600m) during Cup Week last November at Riccarton, and has had two preparatory trials since spelling in February. A winner of seven from 19, he has the ability to act fresh, has drawn barrier five and look for him rounding off solidly in the $35,000 Open 1400 metres. Fixed odds: $11.00 & $3.30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 Chief, The information you display above can all be gleaned from outside form databases. There is nothing directly from the source like for example how the weight of the horse is trending. It looks like a case of a racing reporter earning a few extra bucks doing the writeups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 20 minutes ago, The Centaur said: There is nothing directly from the source like for example how the weight of the horse is trending. Which other NZ Trainer provides this information? For that matter which OZ Trainer does this? The Hong Kong Jockey Club collects this information but I'm not sure what other jurisdictions do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 22 minutes ago, The Centaur said: The information you display above can all be gleaned from outside form databases. LOL yeah! But NOT from TAB NZ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 45 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: LOL yeah! But NOT from TAB NZ! TAB is OK but Te Akau is just duplicating what TAB can offer. Numerous trainers give better information say on their facebook page. I'm just saying Te Akau would do better just displaying original information from their senior staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KickintheKods Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 This is the info that I enjoy getting: SeibRacing @SeibRacing · Race 4 3:20pm Michael Heagney Borderlands was a big improver last start with the blinkers on. Sets up well from the low draw and out another furlong suits. Looks a good top 3 hope again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 38 minutes ago, The Centaur said: TAB is OK but Te Akau is just duplicating what TAB can offer. Where does TAB NZ offer that information? Normally bullshit form comments if anything up to date at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Where does TAB NZ offer that information? Normally bullshit form comments if anything up to date at all. https://new.tab.co.nz/extended-form/2022-08-24-m2-r1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 So @The Centaur you expect Te Akau to provide more information than any other trainer, NZTR and TAB NZ? Who pays? The owner? Perhaps TA could package this information and the average punter could subscribe to the service? Geez I wonder if Te Akau are carbon neutral 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 I'd say like alot of stables TA have got enough on their plate, I wouldn't be blaming the stables for a lack of info outside of the obligatory PR work they do for punters can we really expect them to have to provide alot of detail? Our whole setup here for punters and info is laughable and thats not the fault of the stables imo. If they have alot of horses in the same race then back them like Wallers stable, i.e. back the one he didn't give tip out. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 19 minutes ago, Huey said: I'd say like alot of stables TA have got enough on their plate, I wouldn't be blaming the stables for a lack of info outside of the obligatory PR work they do for punters can we really expect them to have to provide alot of detail? Their first priority is to their owners. Even the harshest BOAY Te Akau critic would agree that TA do a great job at keeping their owners informed. 20 minutes ago, Huey said: Our whole setup here for punters and info is laughable and thats not the fault of the stables imo. This activity has been neglected by the TAB and NZTR for close to two decades. The TAB in cahoots with NZTR squashed or pushed out of business any private attempt to provide punters with detailed information. The Informant being a case in point - they had to source their NZ form details from Australia while the TAB/NZTR passed the data onto their own publications for free! Not that the data was complete or enough to make a difference for the punter. The TAB have since the restructure divested this part of their function and we await with bated breath to see what NZTR will do to fill the gaps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 13 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: So @The Centaur you expect Te Akau to provide more information than any other trainer, NZTR and TAB NZ? Who pays? The owner? Perhaps TA could package this information and the average punter could subscribe to the service? Geez I wonder if Te Akau are carbon neutral 🤔 Rather a silly posting. No one can provide original information on training and the well being of the horse than the trainer. Don't know why you have gone off topic with TAB form etc thats got nothing to do with my point. I'll repeat my point. THe information on the Te Akau web site prior to racing is just a rehash from other sources which are better placed to supply it. Te Akau should concentrate on direct info from trainer or staff. Its in Te Akau's interest to get out as much info as possible. They may think they do but are rather misguided. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, The Centaur said: I'll repeat my point. THe information on the Te Akau web site prior to racing is just a rehash from other sources which are better placed to supply it. Te Akau should concentrate on direct info from trainer or staff. Why? What is in it for TA? From my experience most Trainers are about as accurate as most Tipsters when tipping horses. Especially a long way out from a race. Your original post lists the times and distances of track work and says there should be more information. Hell it is more information than the majority of Trainers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 13 minutes ago, The Centaur said: Its in Te Akau's interest to get out as much info as possible. They may think they do but are rather misguided. Why is it in TA's interest to provide more than they do? What information would YOU as an average punter want that would influence your bets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Why is it in TA's interest to provide more than they do? What information would YOU as an average punter want that would influence your bets? With multiple horses running in races the Te Akau horses are becoming like numbers in lotto. There is little background association e.g. like Ocean Billy with its owner. Thankfully the days when every horse was prefixed with Te Akau are gone but there still isn't the uniqueness to each horse. There is plenty information a trainer can give out surely one can figure that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 (edited) Isn't it the job of the racing or syndicate manager who is in direct communication with the trainer to convey that to the owners. I don't really see it as their job to relate detailed horse by horse information routinely from the trainer to punters. Are there other trainers or owners that do that? Edited August 23, 2022 by curious 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, curious said: Isn't it the job of the racing or syndicate manager who is in direct communication with the trainer to convey that to the owners. I don't really see it as their job to relate detailed horse by horse information routinely from the trainer to punters. Are there other trainers or owners that do that? In the UK which is miles below NZ when it comes to publishing info hell they don't even have published barrier trials they at least have a very useful tool called stable tours. Usually annually the trainer assesses his individual team members quite often pinpointing the target races along with individual quirks. Could be much better buts its a formula should be followed in NZ. Don't know why Dennis Ryan hasn't cottoned on to that. Each assessment should be accompanied with a photo. There was a very popular publication years ago A5 in size with a photo usually highlighting horses expected to come into form certain times of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 41 minutes ago, The Centaur said: In the UK which is miles below NZ when it comes to publishing info hell they don't even have published barrier trials they at least have a very useful tool called stable tours. Usually annually the trainer assesses his individual team members quite often pinpointing the target races along with individual quirks. Could be much better buts its a formula should be followed in NZ. Don't know why Dennis Ryan hasn't cottoned on to that. Each assessment should be accompanied with a photo. There was a very popular publication years ago A5 in size with a photo usually highlighting horses expected to come into form certain times of the year. Have you considered passing on your suggestions to TA and other trainers? https://teakauracing.com/contact-us/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 4 hours ago, The Centaur said: In the UK which is miles below NZ when it comes to publishing info hell they don't even have published barrier trials they at least have a very useful tool called stable tours. Usually annually the trainer assesses his individual team members quite often pinpointing the target races along with individual quirks. Could be much better buts its a formula should be followed in NZ. Don't know why Dennis Ryan hasn't cottoned on to that. Each assessment should be accompanied with a photo. There was a very popular publication years ago A5 in size with a photo usually highlighting horses expected to come into form certain times of the year. You could always buy a share in a horse , you'd probably get a stable tour then? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 11 minutes ago, Huey said: You could always buy a share in a horse , you'd probably get a stable tour then? Yes. If you are an owner, you might reasonably expect that sort of information about your horse from your trainer. Problem here seems to be that if losing punters think that having access to more public information from trainers about specific horses is going to improve their results, they are probably some distance from being successful punters. As a punter, I would have no interest at all in such information, especially if everyone else has it as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Just for you @The Centaur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted August 24, 2022 Author Share Posted August 24, 2022 Chief, You proved my point. The write ups look suspiciously done by someone in Australia. Not even one quote from the trainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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