Reefton Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 J Messara advocates closing tracks wholesale around NZ assuring us peasants that the situation in Aussie and Ireland is much better managed. He then goes on to say that both those places themselves have too many tracks but they cannot close any in Aussie 'for political reasons'(wtf does that mean?) and in Ireland 'it is easier to close a hospital than a racetrack' Why is he seeking to impose on us the very thing that they cannot achieve in the places in the world he thinks are the racing mecca's? And how does he think it is going to be accepted here when he can't get it across the line in his own land? And another thing - I am a bit suspicious of that report - It says it is Messara's but is full of 'we recommend...' and 'We believe...'. Has this bloke suddenly become the queen of England or is there more than one person involved in the writing of this report? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 Should be Closing Tracks not Closng Tracks. Effing illiterate West Coasters 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 You know full well, Mr Reefton, that the track closure part of the report echoes the same mantra from 20 years ago when clubs were 'graded' as a means to starve them of income and 'redistribute' to the important and deserving ones. You know, those clubs that can not put on a racemeet at the moment because their tracks are stuffed. Laurie Sutherland illustrated that very well at the time, although got precious little acclaim for his work. And yes, well spotted re. Aus and Irish tracks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 36 minutes ago, Freda said: You know full well, Mr Reefton, that the track closure part of the report echoes the same mantra from 20 years ago when clubs were 'graded' as a means to starve them of income and 'redistribute' to the important and deserving ones. You know, those clubs that can not put on a racemeet at the moment because their tracks are stuffed. Laurie Sutherland illustrated that very well at the time, although got precious little acclaim for his work. And yes, well spotted re. Aus and Irish tracks. I did a fair bit of work on it myself Pam and spent God knows how many hours on the phone with Laurie. Not to mention winding the hell out of the likes of David McCarthy(Press racing editor at the time). I had a simple economic model of why it could never work and asked the RIB dicks (among a lot of others) to tell me how it would work. The silence was deafening. Gary Chittick's finest hour (not!). He needs regular reminding of that. He had a plonker of a CEO called Alexander who went on to almost break Eden Park before (I think) skulking back to South Africa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, Reefton said: J Messara advocates closing tracks wholesale around NZ assuring us peasants that the situation in Aussie and Ireland is much better managed. He then goes on to say that both those places themselves have too many tracks but they cannot close any in Aussie 'for political reasons'(wtf does that mean?) and in Ireland 'it is easier to close a hospital than a racetrack' Why is he seeking to impose on us the very thing that they cannot achieve in the places in the world he thinks are the racing mecca's? And how does he think it is going to be accepted here when he can't get it across the line in his own land? And another thing - I am a bit suspicious of that report - It says it is Messara's but is full of 'we recommend...' and 'We believe...'. Has this bloke suddenly become the queen of England or is there more than one person involved in the writing of this report? Track closures must be based on a previous report, you can't come up with 190 mil figure to upgrade 28 tracks, 294 mil figure to upgrade 52 tracks, in 3 months. If the plan is to close tracks to generate cash, then I struggle to see the need to close any rural tracks, because their sale will generate very little cash. That's assuming of course, that the track is safe, the facilities are adequate, even if outdated(who goes other than the big days and Xmas hols), and that they are not a drain on NZ racing resources. On that criteria, close the tracks that will generate the big dollars, even though it may be a bitter pill and a contentious land grab issue Can someone also explain, how can you race at Cambridge in 2019/20, on a synthetic track(work to start Jan 2019), when there are no facilities there to be able to conduct a race meeting, or are there?? And if there are no facilities there, how can Rotorua close, and race at Cambridge Edited September 10, 2018 by hesi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Feels like history repeating itself here in little ol' Aotearoa. The term colonisation comes to mind, and the actual tracks chosen to stay and go don't make an iota of sense to me in many cases. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 13 hours ago, Reefton said: And another thing - I am a bit suspicious of that report - It says it is Messara's but is full of 'we recommend...' and 'We believe...'. Has this bloke suddenly become the queen of England or is there more than one person involved in the writing of this report? That struck me too. Who the hell is "we"? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I suspect it is the consulting firm that actually wrote it - probably that Boston firm that Wacko Jacko used to run - has their fingerprints all over it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 58 minutes ago, curious said: That struck me too. Who the hell is "we"? I seriously think he got to the third stage and thought 'this is too hard I'll turn it over to the NZ Boards'. It is virtually the same report as 20 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I did think it was a bit odd to open the report with a quote from a nearly 50 year old Royal Commission report into racing, especially to then come up with recommendations that were similar. Are we really stuck with people still trying to implement ideas from 5 decades ago. Don't we need some 21st century vision? The context is not remotely similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) And, if the plan is for Rotorua to race at Cambridge??, why can't Counties race at Cambridge(an extra 18 km), or even Te Rapa, then ideally Ellerslie(total track rebuild in the plan), or the Waikato Greenfields option That leaves Counties(freehold) available to sell, which with all the housing development going on just south of Auckland, they would bring in probably more than the sale of all rural racecourses Edited September 10, 2018 by hesi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, curious said: I did think it was a bit odd to open the report with a quote from a nearly 50 year old Royal Commission report into racing, especially to then come up with recommendations that were similar. Are we really stuck with people still trying to implement ideas from 5 decades ago. Don't we need some 21st century vision? The context is not remotely similar. Had Weigh In played my full interview from Saturday I would have said virtually the same thing Curious. Consultants consultants consultants! Sick of hearing the opinions of ill informed consultants! Instead Sheldon seemed to concentrate on whatever disharmony there may be between the Coast Clubs. Edited September 10, 2018 by Reefton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) If you want to do the track closure thing, off the top of my head, this is roughly what I'd do. NI. Sell all Auckland and Waikato tracks and build a new facility in the Waikato with a Strathayr, synthetic, and probably a trotting track, most likely in the Waikato Greenfields development. Same in the CD. Probably in the coastal Kapiti/Horowhenua area. Sell the rest. In the regions, retain and upgrade Ruakaka, Hastings and New Plymouth. Those tracks to have perhaps two 3 day carnivals a year - say, Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday. Scrap the rest. SI. Similar. Build one new facility same as Waikato /CD. Possibly Darfield/West Melton area. Retain and upgrade/ fix Blenheim, one coast track (probably Omoto), Wingatui, one Southland track (possibly Ascot Park), and maybe one in Central Otago (Kurow?). Same as the NI regions these all to have one or two 3 day, 1 week carnivals a year. Clubs no longer racing on their home tracks to decide their own destiny, have the option to revert the useage to other community activities, retain the harness racing if they are shared facilities, sell-up and decide usage of funds. The latter could be to invest in and race at the nearest new or upgraded facility. Objectives are to consolidate tracks, retain strong racing presence in the regions, similar overall cost of around $200 million, allow access to RDF $s for all new facilities, have the 3 main tracks proximal to existing horse populations, reduce total tracks to round a dozen. 2-3 year full implementation. Edited September 10, 2018 by curious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 What about Tauranga and Rotorua? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, hesi said: What about Tauranga and Rotorua? Both an hour's drive from the Waikato track and very few horses there is my thinking .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) What is the point of upgrading Ruakaka, too far away from anything, especially with rising fuel costs Would you not also need to keep tracks at Matamata and Cambridge as your 2 major training centres in the North Edited September 10, 2018 by hesi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Apparently it costs approx 700 dollars to transport your horse to Ruakaka from Cambridge return.......you pay the jockey, sometimes an acceptance or nom fee, if you travel up to watch your horse from say AKL, add that on........your horse runs a nice close up maybe unlucky 6/7/8th.....and your day is beyond $1000...... NZ racing is for the elite or upper classes, the costs prove it........the days of owning a couple of horses stand alone, or as a couple are gone....unless you own a business or are resigned to going broke... The incentives for owners in AUS are outstanding and encourage incoming owners, everything is not rosy in Oz, QLD and SA do not pay starters incentives, however, the QTIS scheme in Queensland is amazing and pays terrific returns to owners and breeders,....VIC is looking at a massive problem, too many horses, not enough races....but at least if you have a city class horse, they pay more than K2 down to 10th place......why oh why couldn't the people who were charged with overseeing NZ racing see that to keep owners you need to incentivise them......Bernard Saundry should have known that, did he look the other way?....too frightened to rock the boat, these questions need to be answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, curious said: If you want to do the track closure thing, off the top of my head, this is roughly what I'd do. NI. Sell all Auckland and Waikato tracks and build a new facility in the Waikato with a Strathayr, synthetic, and probably a trotting track, most likely in the Waikato Greenfields development. Same in the CD. Probably in the coastal Kapiti/Horowhenua area. Sell the rest. In the regions, retain and upgrade Ruakaka, Hastings and New Plymouth. Those tracks to have perhaps two 3 day carnivals a year - say, Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday. Scrap the rest. SI. Similar. Build one new facility same as Waikato /CD. Possibly Darfield/West Melton area. Retain and upgrade/ fix Blenheim, one coast track (probably Omoto), Wingatui, one Southland track (possibly Ascot Park), and maybe one in Central Otago (Kurow?). Same as the NI regions these all to have one or two 3 day, 1 week carnivals a year. Clubs no longer racing on their home tracks to decide their own destiny, have the option to revert the useage to other community activities, retain the harness racing if they are shared facilities, sell-up and decide usage of funds. The latter could be to invest in and race at the nearest new or upgraded facility. Objectives are to consolidate tracks, retain strong racing presence in the regions, similar overall cost of around $200 million, allow access to RDF $s for all new facilities, have the 3 main tracks proximal to existing horse populations, reduce total tracks to round a dozen. 2-3 year full implementation. What about the 18-44 year olds who are going to deadset flock to the races very single day according to John? We can't have them having to travel for God's sake! I don't reckon you are far away except I would not sell Ellerslie but turn it into a Commercial property portfolio that will never stop dropping goals for the industry(financially). Ditto Alex Park then develop Avondale (unquestionably the best track surface in the Auckland area) or find another site with rail access and a good surface so you can train them in and home again. Put a trotting track inside(depending if there is a trotting industry in existence of course) and lights for night time fun for the 18-44 year olds - after all they are our saviours. Regardless of the fact that they only turn up three or four times a year you do need somewhere very close to Auckland City so the 18-44 year olds can have their fun. In the south Cromwell is a lot more logical than Kurow(which is North Otago) for the central Otago region. Closest to Queenstown and run races in conjunction with that summer concert thing or other huge Queenstown summer events. And under that scenario why keep one on the Coast? There is no longer an industry here and why is the Coast more important than say Auckland or Timaru?(there are only 30,000 people here and it would be bad form to make a special case of us - the rest of the NZ regulatory bodies are desperate to shut us down - why should racing be any different?) For me Ruakaka, Avondale, Greenfields site, Hastings, Awapuni(if they can get an all weather sorted) or Kapiti Coast, Riccarton(Darfield by the railway line would be a lot better), Oamaru,Wingatui(though they need to support it!) Cromwell and Invercargill(maybe but they need to support it too). Perhaps Trentham so the Wellington 18 -44 year olds can get their fix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 hour ago, curious said: If you want to do the track closure thing, off the top of my head, this is roughly what I'd do. NI. Sell all Auckland and Waikato tracks and build a new facility in the Waikato with a Strathayr, synthetic, and probably a trotting track, most likely in the Waikato Greenfields development. Same in the CD. Probably in the coastal Kapiti/Horowhenua area. Sell the rest. In the regions, retain and upgrade Ruakaka, Hastings and New Plymouth. Those tracks to have perhaps two 3 day carnivals a year - say, Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday. Scrap the rest. SI. Similar. Build one new facility same as Waikato /CD. Possibly Darfield/West Melton area. Retain and upgrade/ fix Blenheim, one coast track (probably Omoto), Wingatui, one Southland track (possibly Ascot Park), and maybe one in Central Otago (Kurow?). Same as the NI regions these all to have one or two 3 day, 1 week carnivals a year. Clubs no longer racing on their home tracks to decide their own destiny, have the option to revert the useage to other community activities, retain the harness racing if they are shared facilities, sell-up and decide usage of funds. The latter could be to invest in and race at the nearest new or upgraded facility. Objectives are to consolidate tracks, retain strong racing presence in the regions, similar overall cost of around $200 million, allow access to RDF $s for all new facilities, have the 3 main tracks proximal to existing horse populations, reduce total tracks to round a dozen. 2-3 year full implementation. Good that you have put in some objectives. Any plan has to be based on what you are trying to achieve and why Generating money to upgrade facilities? Getting more people to the races? Providing a better racing product ? etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 16 hours ago, Reefton said: J Messara advocates closing tracks wholesale around NZ assuring us peasants that the situation in Aussie and Ireland is much better managed. He then goes on to say that both those places themselves have too many tracks but they cannot close any in Aussie 'for political reasons'(wtf does that mean?) and in Ireland 'it is easier to close a hospital than a racetrack' Why is he seeking to impose on us the very thing that they cannot achieve in the places in the world he thinks are the racing mecca's? And how does he think it is going to be accepted here when he can't get it across the line in his own land? And another thing - I am a bit suspicious of that report - It says it is Messara's but is full of 'we recommend...' and 'We believe...'. Has this bloke suddenly become the queen of England or is there more than one person involved in the writing of this report? There's far too much focus on this closing down tracks b/s... The word in the report is CONSULTATION...confirmed by Bernie and Winnie... Relax...Bernie will sort it.. Winnie provided a minder or two from his Ministry to help the Messiah out on his crusade...hence 'we' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 hour ago, curious said: If you want to do the track closure thing, off the top of my head, this is roughly what I'd do. NI. Sell all Auckland and Waikato tracks and build a new facility in the Waikato with a Strathayr, synthetic, and probably a trotting track, most likely in the Waikato Greenfields development. Same in the CD. Probably in the coastal Kapiti/Horowhenua area. Sell the rest. This is lunatic fringe stuff... Keep repeating b/s like this and the rest of your fantasies won't be taken seriously... get a grip 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, hesi said: Good that you have put in some objectives. Any plan has to be based on what you are trying to achieve and why Generating money to upgrade facilities? Getting more people to the races? Providing a better racing product ? etc etc Yep. All of those but primarily the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, Thomass said: This is lunatic fringe stuff... Keep repeating b/s like this and the rest of your fantasies won't be taken seriously... get a grip you'd be a great one to talk. Getting a grip on yourself is one of the things you do too much of. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 19 minutes ago, Thomass said: There's far too much focus on this closing down tracks b/s... The word in the report is CONSULTATION...confirmed by Bernie and Winnie... Relax...Bernie will sort it.. Winnie provided a minder or two from his Ministry to help the Messiah out on his crusade...hence 'we' Did Bernie and Winnie write the report? The only mention of consultation in it is with the codes except that it says the venue planning working group plans to consult with all participants once they complete their draft plan in August. Is that happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Reefton said: you'd be a great one to talk. Getting a grip on yourself is one of the things you do too much of. And there's little hope of his fantasies being taken seriously either. There's no effing horses in Auckland. Why keep a racetrack there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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