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Bit Of A Yarn

Why would Riccarton be irrigating?


Reefton

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2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yep I hear you Reefton.  My biggest ownership win (a Grp 3) was on a F1!!!  I think it was the first time a track was rated an F1.  Hard and Fast used to cover it in the old days.  8 horses were lined up neck and neck with a 100m to go.  Darryn Tyquin called it "the charge of the light brigade".

They'd probably call the races off if a track was rated F1 today.

yes and I reckon that is a big part of the way we yearn for the good old days of Grey Way Blue Blood Show Gate Jan's Beau or whoever.  When the sun was hot and the dust was flying......(or for that matter the Loch Linnhe's, Kumai's(a little before my time admittedly)or Koral's in the winter fro the opposite reason).

You lined up because you knew what to expect not taking an effective lotto ticket on how the track will play.

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I think the problem is tracks like Riccarton that have not been relaid in a quarter of a century, and it was a crap job then, are severely compacted and overused. Wasn't like that in the Grey Way, Showgate days etc. So when very dry, they are too unforgiving and irrigation to avoid that is not the right solution.

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1 hour ago, curious said:

I think the problem is tracks like Riccarton that have not been relaid in a quarter of a century, and it was a crap job then, are severely compacted and overused. Wasn't like that in the Grey Way, Showgate days etc. So when very dry, they are too unforgiving and irrigation to avoid that is not the right solution.

Yes the soil structure is stuffed.  I know we hear often about the best tracks being those prepared by farmers but I can imagine the good farmers were frustrated by not having the option of cultivating and resowing the circular paddock from time to time.  To enable ensure good soil structure.  Hence the artificial structure created in Strathyr tracks give you a longer time between renewal.

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2 hours ago, curious said:

I think the problem is tracks like Riccarton that have not been relaid in a quarter of a century, and it was a crap job then, are severely compacted and overused. Wasn't like that in the Grey Way, Showgate days etc. So when very dry, they are too unforgiving and irrigation to avoid that is not the right solution.

Riccarton was 'renovated' about twenty years ago(when they removed the old 1000m chute) and the 1200m chute about five years ago

For years the crossing onto the course proper used to be throwing up clods even on the firmest of tracks

It has only really sorted itself out in the last couple of years  and to be fair I don't know what was wrong with it in the first place.

Like most of them run around with the plough and a set of discs and harrows, resow the grass apply some fert and wait for it to take would be my way of doing it.  Not jazzy enough for these blokes unfortunately.  And when the Messiah report is all actioned there will tracks being dug up all over the show!

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3 hours ago, Reefton said:

Riccarton was 'renovated' about twenty years ago(when they removed the old 1000m chute) and the 1200m chute about five years ago

For years the crossing onto the course proper used to be throwing up clods even on the firmest of tracks

It has only really sorted itself out in the last couple of years  and to be fair I don't know what was wrong with it in the first place.

Like most of them run around with the plough and a set of discs and harrows, resow the grass apply some fert and wait for it to take would be my way of doing it.  Not jazzy enough for these blokes unfortunately.  And when the Messiah report is all actioned there will tracks being dug up all over the show!

Freda might confirm, but from memory, the main reason for the 'renovation' was to get rid of the undulations in the straight. The issue with the track at the junction, actually from about the 500, has been there ever since and is due to the shallow topsoil layer, especially in that part of the track, over the clay base that they decided to lay. We all saw it happening. A plough and discs indeed may not be flash enough but I think that with the mission to centralise and the movement to overuse crap tracks like Riccarton, means that they are not prepared to put them out of service for the required 12-24 months every 5-7 years in order to do the necessary restoration, which I agree with you Reefton could be done exactly as you suggest. Maybe not Riccarton because there's probably not enough topsoil to work with in places.

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2 minutes ago, curious said:

Freda might confirm, but from memory, the main reason for the 'renovation' was to get rid of the undulations in the straight. The issue with the track at the junction, actually from about the 500, has been there ever since and is due to the shallow topsoil layer, especially in that part of the track, over the clay base that they decided to lay. We all saw it happening. A plough and discs indeed may not be flash enough but I think that with the mission to centralise and the movement to overuse crap tracks like Riccarton, means that they are not prepared to put them out of service for the required 12-24 months every 5-7 years in order to do the necessary restoration, which I agree with you Reefton could be done exactly as you suggest. Maybe not Riccarton because there's probably not enough topsoil to work with in places.

Pitty has said though Curious Riccarton is a very safe track and clearly a very good track(for racing - it is absolutely abysmal for viewing I might say - don't know how the 18-44 year olds are going to embrace being able to see nothing until the final 300m but I am sure the Messiah and Winsome will have the answer to that)

I don't remember too many complaints about undulations - more likely the Amenities fund had a few quid in it and they had to find a way to blow it(another thing I am not sure how Winsome is going to deal with - Clubs getting the bit between their teeth on these new amenities he is going to be showering around like Santa Claus) 

What there was was a definite issue in winter with that outside lane - and they only sorted that in the last couple of years.

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5 hours ago, curious said:

Freda might confirm, but from memory, the main reason for the 'renovation' was to get rid of the undulations in the straight. The issue with the track at the junction, actually from about the 500, has been there ever since and is due to the shallow topsoil layer, especially in that part of the track, over the clay base that they decided to lay. We all saw it happening. A plough and discs indeed may not be flash enough but I think that with the mission to centralise and the movement to overuse crap tracks like Riccarton, means that they are not prepared to put them out of service for the required 12-24 months every 5-7 years in order to do the necessary restoration, which I agree with you Reefton could be done exactly as you suggest. Maybe not Riccarton because there's probably not enough topsoil to work with in places.

Yep, the undulations were ( from memory) the main reason for restoration of the track, and they were significant.

I had occasion to speak with Duncan Laing  of the company which did the work , he confirmed that the specifications were provided by the RIB( as it was then) and followed to the letter. 

It seemed to me that the topsoil allowed wouldn't have grown decent carrots...but what I know about building racetracks is very insignificant. 

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He also said he wrote a manual on the upkeep of the track, which first manager( Rob Lory) followed to the best of his ability, but that subsequent managers didn't  - or that possibly the manual was misplaced .

Anyway, the use of discs and vertidrainers ( he said)  had allowed the clay base to  mix with the upper layers, leading to gluey, heavy muck when wet and very hard ground when dry.

And don't shoot the messenger!

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1 hour ago, Shad said:

A lot of wind

 

1 hour ago, Turny said:

Met service - accurate - let's see 

well nowhere is worse served by weather forecasters than the West Coast - it was supposed to be bucketing down here today yet was a beautiful day - BUT if I have a racemeeting coming up, a dodgy forecast and a track that does not handle rain well I would NOT NOT NOT be watering the effing thing.

I reiterate - I do not pay training fees for Tim Mills(even if he is not a bad bloke) and his crew to decide what sort of track I get.

It better not rain!

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1 hour ago, Freda said:

Yep, the undulations were ( from memory) the main reason for restoration of the track, and they were significant.

I had occasion to speak with Duncan Laing  of the company which did the work , he confirmed that the specifications were provided by the RIB( as it was then) and followed to the letter. 

It seemed to me that the topsoil allowed wouldn't have grown decent carrots...but what I know about building racetracks is very insignificant. 

That's all right Pam - those guys who set the specifications and did the job clearly had an an effing sight less than your 'insignificant' knowledge

And those undulations you were talking about - are those the ones that allowed Mr Illusion to go 53 or whatever it was for 1000 there?

I think the undulations were in the minds of the silly Racing Authority pricks with the money burning a hole in their pockets

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7 hours ago, Reefton said:

That's all right Pam - those guys who set the specifications and did the job clearly had an an effing sight less than your 'insignificant' knowledge

And those undulations you were talking about - are those the ones that allowed Mr Illusion to go 53 or whatever it was for 1000 there?

I think the undulations were in the minds of the silly Racing Authority pricks with the money burning a hole in their pockets

Towards the end,  the undulations were,  indeed,  quite bad.

I had one particular horse who used to belt the shit out of his hocks whenever he raced there,  you could see his action go to pieces when in the straight.  OK,  only one horse from a small team...but he never touched any other time,  whether in  work or on another racetrack,  and he had quite a few starts.

There were quite a lot of conflicting opinions on how to remedy said problem,  one from one of the senior course workers - a very experienced guy - he reckoned the best and most cost effective option would have been to have removed the grass layer, graded the thing level,  and replaced with new turf.

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7 minutes ago, Freda said:

Towards the end,  the undulations were,  indeed,  quite bad.

I had one particular horse who used to belt the shit out of his hocks whenever he raced there,  you could see his action go to pieces when in the straight.  OK,  only one horse from a small team...but he never touched any other time,  whether in  work or on another racetrack,  and he had quite a few starts.

There were quite a lot of conflicting opinions on how to remedy said problem,  one from one of the senior course workers - a very experienced guy - he reckoned the best and most cost effective option would have been to have removed the grass layer, graded the thing level,  and replaced with new turf.

No Freda that solution was far too simple!

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36 minutes ago, Freda said:

Towards the end,  the undulations were,  indeed,  quite bad.

I had one particular horse who used to belt the shit out of his hocks whenever he raced there,  you could see his action go to pieces when in the straight.  OK,  only one horse from a small team...but he never touched any other time,  whether in  work or on another racetrack,  and he had quite a few starts.

There were quite a lot of conflicting opinions on how to remedy said problem,  one from one of the senior course workers - a very experienced guy - he reckoned the best and most cost effective option would have been to have removed the grass layer, graded the thing level,  and replaced with new turf.

Completely agree that the undulations needed sorting at the time and that they had a significant impact, particularly on some imperfect horses. I also agree that the simple solution would have been to grade it level and resow it, not remove all the topsoil and replace it mostly with clay which not only would not grow carrots but can't really grow grass with any decent secure root structure. They rooted an otherwise perfectly good track that could have been fully ploughed up, the straight graded level and resown. A huge waste of money and there's been no inclination to fix it.

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