Does anyone know who the RIB actaully answers to?

[Reefton]

Hi everyone

Hopefully someone will know the answer to this question.

To who does the RIB answer?

After our debacle on January 5th and about ten to and fro letters to the RIB I complained to the Minister of Racing about their behavour

He replied and basically said he has no authority to investigate or question them and so could not help.

So who the hell does this outfit answer to?

thanks

Brian Molloy

[Reefton]

Actually I should learn how to spell actually

[Freda]

4 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Actually I should learn how to spell actually

No spell check?

[curious]

I'm not sure the Minister is entirely correct. The below is from the DIA briefing paper to him last year. He is also responsible for appointments to the board including the chair. Not sure who is doing that if he is not.

[Reefton]

On rereading it I am a bit harsh on him.  he said he would not do anything but referred it back to the Chair of the  RIB(who was a co addressee of the letter) - she promptly passed it on to Clement - the CEO - who was one of the two subjects of the complaint.

Another frustrating episode in this saga of trying to get that mob to own up to making a mistake(and mistake might be a generous way of putting it)

[Assange]

Another Question. Who controls their spending?

[OxyM]

@Reefton your question prompted me to go back to the legislation. It would appear that the Minister appoints the Board (s45) and the Board, as part of its responsibilities, employs and trains stewards and investigators, and appoints adjudicative committees and appeals tribunals (s44). The Board is required to prepare and provide a statement of intent (s47) and an annual report (s49) to the Minister. So it would appear, in the absence of any other direction in the Act, that any compliant in respect of employees or appointees of the Board should be addressed by the Board itself (rather than the CE) and any compliant in respect of the Board should be addressed to the Minister (given the reporting requirements)  ... Am I missing something, except perhaps any accountability measures being explicitly built into the statute?

[Doomed]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:05 PM, Reefton said:

Hi everyone

Hopefully someone will know the answer to this question.

To who does the RIB answer?

After our debacle on January 5th and about ten to and fro letters to the RIB I complained to the Minister of Racing about their behavour

He replied and basically said he has no authority to investigate or question them and so could not help.

So who the hell does this outfit answer to?

thanks

Brian Molloy

The RIB provides a service to the three codes, so surely it is answerable to the codes. In this instance it is surely up to NZTR to reprimand them if it can be shown RIB has acted without integrity.

[Reefton]

7 hours ago, Doomed said:

The RIB provides a service to the three codes, so surely it is answerable to the codes. In this instance it is surely up to NZTR to reprimand them if it can be shown RIB has acted without integrity.

NZTR had a meeting with them but there is nothing they can do.  In our case NZTR, recognizing there was nothing wrong with that track, paid us our full meeting fees despite dire threats to Clubs producing 'abandonment' tracks in the weeks before.

For that I have to say I am very grateful to NZTR

The people to rein them in are either the Minister(who has thrown his hands up and refused) and the Chairperson who refers everything back to the CEO despite the fact that the said CEO, along with his Chief Stipe have clearly committed a serious breach of the NZTR rules of racing.  The Chairperson is a KC - one would have thought she would have some idea of the concept of independence.

And I am getting the stitch because of the time involved and lack of meaningful progress.

 

 

[Freda]

And that's how the system defeats you/us.

It's all well and good for the Chief to call for meaningful dissension - put it in writing, approach this or that person or body, get a genuine consensus and protest en masse - but when confronted by obfuscation and buck-passing, people just become tired and disillusioned and go away.

If stakeholders as a group made a stand for your club and /or accountability in management, maybe there might be some traction.  But the majority are ignorant, lazy, don't care, or are just plain so wrapped up in the difficult business of running a 7-day-a-week business, dealing with owners, staff, planning programmes [ now that's a trying one ] and paying bills, that there is just no energy or will to protest.

And when I say ignorant, I don't mean in the 'nasty' sense [ although there will be some of those too, no doubt ].  I mean, ignorant of how processes work and how racing is structured overall.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

It's all well and good for the Chief to call for meaningful dissension - put it in writing, approach this or that person or body, get a genuine consensus and protest en masse - but when confronted by obfuscation and buck-passing, people just become tired and disillusioned and go away.

But it is on record and it builds a picture as opposed to barking at the moon or moaning to a coat hanging on a fence post.

Send all the information to each and every Board member.  

[MaltedMilkshake]

As I have been saying for 10 years + on many forums,  there is absolutely NO accountability in New Zealand…none, nada, zilch, zero, northing….NZ has a culture problem…a nation of buckpassers

And can it be fixed? pigs will fly before that…

[Freda]

22 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

As I have been saying for 10 years + on many forums,  there is absolutely NO accountability in New Zealand…none, nada, zilch, zero, northing….NZ has a culture problem…a nation of buckpassers

And can it be fixed? pigs will fly before that…

The number-8-wire mentality,  the can-do, common sense mindset that Kiwis used to be known for seems to have flown out the window, sadly.

Watching news this morning about the tragic shooting in the Auckland CBD, I was struck by the time spent by various distressed-looking females worrying about 'how could this have been prevented '  well, fk me, lock up those violent pricks and leave them there. Accountability?  Where?

Home D is ok for tax fraud or traffic offences.

[Chief Stipe]

53 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

As I have been saying for 10 years + on many forums,  there is absolutely NO accountability in New Zealand…none, nada, zilch, zero, northing….NZ has a culture problem…a nation of buckpassers

Which hasn't been helped by the creation of Mega-department bureaucracies like MPI and MBIE.  In those departments faceless unaccountable permanent tenure bureaucrats make rules to create work enforcing them.

Well over 6,000 bureaucrats in both Departments combined with an average salary of $120,000+.  Not one of them actually produce anything.

The corollary is the creation of the Mega-RIB.  As some of us warned @Thomass it wouldn't reduce costs and it wouldn't improve racing integrity.  It's made it worse.  

 

24 minutes ago, Freda said:

The number-8-wire mentality,  the can-do, common sense mindset that Kiwis used to be known for seems to have flown out the window, sadly.

It hasn't fortunately that's why we are seeing more people taking things into their own hands.  It's just harder to do without being fined.

[Doomed]

As Pam said, the approach is just to wear down anyone who criticises their actions and wait until they disappear. And no way can you afford to take them to court as they have limitless funds and can pour as much money at it as they like, as we have seen in the past.

Sadly, most of the club administrators who have stood up to oppressive policies over the years have disappeared, along with their clubs. By my calculation Reefton is probably the only one left.

So NZTR, and whatever the other ruling bodies are called these days, have achieved what they desired and they now have the industry they dreamed of. 

I suspect I will look on with some amusement in 4 or 5 years time when 2 or 3 clubs who assumed they were big beneficiaries of the new regime get told that they are no longer required either. 

I do wonder what will happen if some of the track reconstructions don't go well and there are no alternative tracks to move meetings to. Where would the north have been in recent times without Te Rapa, which fronts up week after week with all the other tracks either out of action or out of favour.

[Reefton]

3 hours ago, Doomed said:

As Pam said, the approach is just to wear down anyone who criticises their actions and wait until they disappear. And no way can you afford to take them to court as they have limitless funds and can pour as much money at it as they like, as we have seen in the past.

Sadly, most of the club administrators who have stood up to oppressive policies over the years have disappeared, along with their clubs. By my calculation Reefton is probably the only one left.

So NZTR, and whatever the other ruling bodies are called these days, have achieved what they desired and they now have the industry they dreamed of. 

I suspect I will look on with some amusement in 4 or 5 years time when 2 or 3 clubs who assumed they were big beneficiaries of the new regime get told that they are no longer required either. 

I do wonder what will happen if some of the track reconstructions don't go well and there are no alternative tracks to move meetings to. Where would the north have been in recent times without Te Rapa, which fronts up week after week with all the other tracks either out of action or out of favour.

Reefton is rapidly shortening stride - I am finishing my Presidency at the coming AGM, getting off the committee as well and am smashing my head against a brick wall with the RIB merely wasting my time

Why bother trying to help an industry that does not want to be helped?

 

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Reefton

[Freda]

2 hours ago, Reefton said:

Reefton is rapidly shortening stride - I am finishing my Presidency at the coming AGM, getting off the committee as well and am smashing my head against a brick wall with the RIB merely wasting my time

Why bother trying to help an industry that does not want to be helped?

 

 

Can't say I blame you one iota.

[Special Agent]

Everyone and every comment on this thrad are exactly correct.

No wonder good hard working people in racing tire, lose interest and walk away, and that is just what the authorities want.  They can't have volunteers showing the well salaried up.

Chief may go on about putting things in writing.  I have to agree.  You need the old paper trail for any argument whether it be required legally or not.

New Zealanders must be champions of the world when it comes to buck passing and looking after their own interests.  Those old number 8 wire bods are creatures of the past, referred to as relics by the young of today.  There doesn't seem much point to me in having a flash flow chart of lines of reporting if they are neatly filed in the too hard basket.

I think I'll be a fly in the ointment until I die.  If these people in charge are going to do idiotic things and act like halfwits I am going to continue to challenge, even when in the absolute minority.  Just like in government, there will be no progression without debate.  I was at a meeting the other day where only two asked questions of authority and the group was railroaded into another dumb decision.  I await the moans from those also rans when the decisions and actions of the RIB bite their silence in the arse.

The post of Curious showing the page from the DIA briefing paper intrigues me.  Under Regimes, Property it states "Industry retains value of racing property".  Haha bloody ha ... so why do clubs think they have to realise real estate?  Surely the only thing clubs need to do to "retain value of racing property" is to sit tight as property values rise and rise!!

[Reefton]

As I said in the Reefton 5 January post the Minister has come back again when I had another whinge and said (essentially) 'no sorry I cannot help on this as I have no authority over the RIB.  All I can do is appoint members to the Board and they have to do the investigating if warranted'

And since like every other publicly funded organisation the staff at the RIB will be on this 'governance and management distinction' bandwagon the reality is that this Mike Clements has total control over that side of NZ racing. 

So given his blatant disregard of the rules of racing and his clear lack of knowledge of the way racing works are we not in a perilous situation here?

We bagged Purcell, Saundry and Sharrock but at least they all had some background in racing and clearly an interest in the game.  This guy not only has no background he also has no regard for the rules, the reality or the stakeholders.

He also has a Chair of his Board with(to my knowledge) no history whatsoever in the racing game.

No wonder the game is f#*ked