Chief Stipe

None of them deliberate.

I doubt it...ramble and spout ideology perhaps but not a coherent debate based on fact.

That's why they have a military presence in Tonga and the Solomon's?

Well there you go we agree.

The big stables don't bother with such horses either and flick them off. Who in their right mind would persevere with an average unsound gelding? There is also a lot the bigger stables do that don't require expensive vet bills. A lot of it is to prevent such bills. @jess infers there is some special advantage for some and that the playing field is uneven. The big stables got there through hard work. Where is the evidence that they were or are treated differently? I realise some people would prefer to see 6 races of average horses trained by battlers tonight instead of 6 quality fields of well bred horses trained to the minute on a fantastic new track ridden by the best jockeys on offer in Australasia.

So what do you propose? Have a level playing field by cutting down the tall poppies? That would be the path to an empty paddock. Certainly one that couldn't compete in Australia. You infer that some people, presumably licensees, are treated differently or unfairly because the are not "big players". Where is your proof? Asking for you to provide some facts to justify your view is not opprobrium but asking you to be fair. You demand it but don't want to do it. What is "too big"? Te Akau? Lance O'Sullivan? Robbie Patterson? Pitman? Kenny Rae? All different size stables but all could be called successful. Recently I have had the experience of seeing inside a couple of big stables and talked to a number of successful trainers. I knew that they take things to a different level but even I was surprised to what level they go to to ensure success. The systems and science behind what they do is impressive and legal. It needs to be if you are going to get that extra 1 to 2% that makes your horse competitive at the elite level. Your everyday battler could do the same or similar things but on average they don't try learn or improve. It's the same in any sport or business for that matter. Bur if you have any facts to support your contention that the deck is loaded in favour of some over others then please do provide some evidence.

Like Wairoa.

No but some horses don't fit into a big stables process. Doesn't mean that in the right environment they won't be OK. At the very least you know they have been well educated. In the Harness world some boutique trainers specialise in picking up others cast off's and do OK.

Many. Better to fight somewhere else before they get here. WW2 tells you that.

What are you saying? If they are no good there then they are definitely no good?

Well supposedly Messara walked the Waipuk track and said it wasn't up to scratch. I wonder how many tracks he did visit...let me guess...

There is a shyte load of horses looking for a home out of Singapore and Macau.

Interestingly that's a problem in OZ Metro as well. Seems more trainers are taking their time with young horses and aiming for the second half of the season. Which will have a flow on effect to next Spring.

Yep and they sure have stuffed Pukekohe and even Te Rapa while they bought Ellerslie up to speed. If they had looked further afield than their navel...

So once you get past Bosson, McNab, Kennedy, maybe Cameron or Pinn would you turn down MacDonald, Shinn or Kah? Or any of about 20+ OZ Jockeys.

How many times is too often? Te Akau for example have had two positives in how many decades? One environmental contamination and the other a staff administration error. Lance O'Sullivan - how many?

Really? Explain why Foxton isn't raced on!!

I'm sure that's not correct. Either way he was wrong.

Chinese Communist Party (CCP) speak for "we will 'manage everything the citizens can and can't do". Xi Jinping is going to wind China back to the good old red days with a centralised managed economy. Geez people think Putin is a problem - Xi Jinping has big ambitions.

I NEVER delete a post on BOAY. I hide some that have crossed the line of decency e.g. personal foul abuse. Some Topics that degenerate to a slanging match I move to The Vent forum - there are a few of @Thomass 's in there. But I NEVER EVER delete a post. So none of your posts have been deleted NOR hidden. I'm not surprised you have forgotten which Topic you posted it in - lost somewhere in the marketing spiels?

Fake News post. Messara used multiple criteria when assessing Racecourses. Some of the tracks he failed were failed on the basis that they didn't have adequate hospitality facilities (in his opinion) NOT because the track was crap. Some very good turf trqcks have been closed down or starved of race meetings effectively closing them down. For example Foxton. Meanwhile we see an abandonment at a track that has had work on it! Are you proposing the close Hastings down? Probably could have raced safely at Wairoa or Waipukurau.

Including Hastings! Ground Hog Day!!

GROUND HOG DAY!!! 15 September 2015. TURFTECH PARTNERSHIP LTD REPORT INTO HASTINGS ABANDONMENT PUBLISHED 30 September 2015, 1:53 p.m. TURFTECH PARTNERSHIP LTD REPORT INTO HASTINGS ABANDONMENT PUBLISHED An independent technical audit by Turftech Partnership Ltd of the Hastings track has been unable to identify any physical issue that contributed to the abandonment on 19 September 2015. Turftech's report examined: 1. Core samples taken at the area of the slip taken on the day of the abandonment, which were reviewed and tested for moisture profile, soil structure, soil function, porosity and compaction; 2. Penetrometer readings across the whole track; 3. irrigation records; and a 4. Physical examination of the track surface. Jim Murphy, the Turftech partner who conducted the investigation said: "Slippery tracks almost always involve a wetter layer over a harder soil. The irrigation used at Hastings before the races had set up an evenly wet soil. The water content from the slip area agreed with the course penetrometer reading .... All cores appeared to show even moisture down to at least 75 mm in depth." A track inspection on Tuesday, 22 September, found only one slip mark, around the area where Tiger Tim had been reported to have slipped in race three. “Soil moisture under the slip mark was what we would have predicted, from penetrometer readings, for all the course proper,” said Murphy. “I was able to inspect many hoof prints in the adjacent area and none showed any movement.” The Hastings track has received more than 145 mls of rain since 19 September but might be no worse than dead for Livamol Classic meeting on Saturday. “It has all soaked in, which has been great,” track manager, Richard Fenwick, said. “The forecast is good and I’m pretty confident that, without rain, the track will come back to dead.” The Turftech report is one of three independent reviews commissioned by NZTR following the abandonment on 19 September. A more wide-ranging review is being undertaken by Bell Gully partners Mark Freeman and Rachael Brown and is expected to be completed within the next week. The Bell Gully review will include interviews with Hawke’s Bay Racing and NZTR officials, the Racing Integrity Unit, the Jockeys’ Association, turf experts and leading track managers in Sydney and Melbourne.

So are you saying there is no defence? We've been through comparing penalty outcomes before and for these types of charges it is a myth that there is inconsistency in Thoroughbred Racing. Greyhounds appear to be another story though.

But that's in Australia! Aren't the rumours based on a NZ stable? All this speculation, innuendo, inference, supposition and mostly baseless crap could be stopped by the RIB having a policy of releasing the horse name, stable and substance that a positive has been returned for. They do it in Australia. Then all parties concerned sing off the same song sheet - "no comment - inquiries are ongoing". Instead we have all this speculation pointing everywhere including at innocent parties and guessing who leaked the information. As for what the penalty should be any suggestions of big bans is ludicrous when you have no idea of any of the detail. As I said it will be a mistake in administration or environmental contamination. I posted an article from the USA earlier in the week on that subject.