Murray Fish

a link to the article.. with tags at the bottom of the article https://theconversation.com/the-horseracing-industry-is-ignoring-what-science-says-about-whipping-188943

while some members of BOAY might have experience with the use of the whip! for those that don't!!!

I was trying to find stats for NZ on opinions of using the whip, could find any, but did find this The horseracing industry is ignoring what science says about whipping Published: September 16, 2022 5.11am NZST Updated: September 28, 2022 11.00pm NZDT Authors Paul McGreevy Professor of Animal Behaviour and Welfare, University of New England Bidda Jones Honorary Associate, Sydney School of Veterinary Science, University of Sydney Disclosure statement Professor Paul McGreevy is an Honorary Fellow of the International Society for Equitation Science and a life member of the RSPCA NSW. He has received funding from the Australian Research Council for research into the welfare of racing Thoroughbreds. He occasionally conducts research funded by the RSPCA Australia. Bidda Jones is employed by the Australian Alliance for Animals. She is a member of the Thoroughbred Aftercare Welfare Working Group which provides independent advice to the Australian Thoroughbred breeding industry. When the British Horseracing Authority (BHA) released its recent whip consultation report, it claimed to have consulted the science. But it insists whipping when done “correctly” shouldn’t hurt horses and fails to substantively recommend that the racing industry changes its approach to the way whips are used. The BHA recognises two uses of the whip. For encouragement, to activate the horse or trigger a gear change in speed. And for safety of the horse and rider such as when jumping an obstacle. It recommends that whipping “for safety and encouragement” should continue. Industry leaders and jockeys say that whip use is essential to keep horses and jockeys safe. The BHA report says using a whip as a form of “encouragement” acts “as an aid to activate the horse, which motivates a horse to give of its best and realise its potential in a race”. This gives the impression that striking horses with a partially padded rod is in their interest, like making your children eat their vegetables. But the scientific research into how horses experience whipping reveals a different story. Horses evolved to run away from painful pressure on their hindquarters, given the most likely natural cause of such stimulation is contact from a predator. Whips evoke this evolutionary response to deter horses from slowing down in the closing stages of a race. But, in contrast to contact from a pursuing predator, whip strikes from a jockey are totally inescapable and so may give horses a sense of learned helplessness. A 2020 study showed that horses’ skin is just as sensitive as humans’ by comparing skin samples under the microscope and exploring any differences in their skin structure and nerve supply. It found the outer layer of horses’ skin is no thicker (or more protective) than in humans. So if whip strikes cause pain to humans, they are likely to hurt horses. When it comes to changing a horse’s behaviour, whips are used in racing as a form of punishment (for its failure to perform), not encouragement (to realise its potential).What the report says What the report says The report recommends one change to the way whips are used: to restrict their use for “encouragement” to the backhand position only. In racing, whips are held like a ski pole (backhand) or like a tennis racquet (forehand). The BHA’s rationale for moving to backhand-only strikes is that “the backhand discourages a wide arm action, which is not only neater and more stylish it also reduces the likelihood that the whip will be used with excessive force and/or from above shoulder height”. The report adds that “it is more difficult, though of course not impossible, to strike a horse with excessive force from the backhand position”. Yet a 2013 study, not listed in the BHA report, showed that when jockeys whipped with their dominant hand, they struck with more force in the backhand than the forehand position. Stylish or not, promoting backhand strikes is bad for horses if forehand strikes are milder. The report also recommended the BHA, on behalf of the racing industry, should commission and support objective research into the effects of the whip, using scientific advances to inform its policy. Conspicuously, it failed to specify what more science was needed. The BHA says whipping is used as a form of encouragement. Lukas Gojda/Shutterstock When the BHA reviewed whipping in 2011, it also concluded that whipping stimulates a horse and doesn’t cause pain. This time around, the report confined itself to simply providing a list of papers published since 2011 about whipping, without discussing any of them. The 2022 report reveals that this year some panel members felt there was enough evidence to remove the use of whips for “encouragement” now. So why the call for “more science”? What about safety? The report says “in general, a focused, appropriately activated horse will tend to race more safely”, but it does not elaborate further on how whipping keeps a horse and jockey safe. This view runs counter to a 2020 study (listed, but not discussed, in the report) which compared whipping-free races for apprentices (in which whips are held but not used) with races in which the actual use of the whip is allowed. Races of both types were meticulously matched for racecourse, distance, number of horses starting each race, and “the going” (turf conditions on the day). A detailed analysis of stewards’ post-race reports revealed no difference between the two race types in movement of horses across the track and interference with other horses. There was no evidence that whipping improved safety. Do whips improve performance? The received wisdom is that whipping a horse makes it more likely to win. However, a landmark study published in 2011 showed increased whipping does not significantly affect a horse’s speed at the finishing line. This reflects the reality that, as they finish a race, most horses are losing speed because they are fatigued. The comparison study mentioned above also found no difference in finishing times between whipping-free and conventional races. While the ethics of promoting gambling is a different debate entirely, whip-free races in Norway and the UK still allow people to bet. It may even be more attractive to sponsors seeking assurance their brand is associated only with ethical activities. What others think A spokesperson for the BHA told The Conversation: “The BHA’s whip review was the most detailed and rigorous of its type carried out by a racing body. It included a detailed public consultation, and recommendations were made by a steering group which contained expertise from across the racing and equine industry, alongside neutral and external participants including from the equine welfare sector and government. "It included detailed consideration of public sentiment and the scientific landscape. It should be noted that the whip can only be used in racing for safety, correction, or to activate or encourage a horse, never to coerce. As a result of the whip review British racing will now have amongst the most strict and innovative whip rules in world racing.” All horse riding, including so-called natural horsemanship, involves some form of negative reinforcement. This involves applying pressure until the horse responds the way you want it to. A position statement from the International Society for Equitation Science says trainers should use minimal force and avoid punishing horses or making them feel scared. They oppose jockeys whipping horses to improve their position in a race. Animal ethicists say people should apply the precautionary principle and “err on the side of caution” when animals are made to participate in human activities. But the BHA rejected the precautionary principle because of the “proportionality of the principle in relation to this issue”. In contrast, the website of the charity World Horse Welfare states: “We need to assume that if a procedure causes pain in humans and leads to a response in horses, then it causes that response by causing pain.” It concludes that whipping for encouragement should be banned. Photographic evidence that the padded whip can leave welts on horses underscores this point. An Animal Aid-funded 2018 YouGov study found that 68% of adult respondents in the UK either oppose (30%) or strongly oppose (38%) the use of the whip in racing. When excluding those who did not express an opinion on the issue, the number of respondents who oppose or strongly oppose the use of the whip in racing rose to 83%. The turning tide Groups that the BHA once considered allies are now openly criticising its stance on whipping. In part as a result of the 2022 consultation, the RSPCA (England and Wales) and World Horse Welfare have withdrawn support on whipping horses for encouragement. It is easy to see why whipping in horseracing has become a touchstone issue, disliked by the majority of the public and a central threat to racing and other equestrian sports’ social license to operate. When the justification for whipping tired horses comes down to semantics, how much longer will society tolerate this violent form of “encouragement”? This article was changed on September 23 2022 from “But it insists whipping doesn’t hurt horses” to “But it insists whipping when done "correctly” shouldn’t hurt horses and fails to substantively recommend that the racing industry changes its approach". This article was changed on September 28 to “But it insists whipping when done "correctly” doesn’t hurt horses and fails to substantively recommend that the racing industry changes its approach.“

Prof AI reckons " See all linksSee reasoning Images Videos Whipping in thoroughbred racing in New Zealand has been increasingly criticized for its negative impacts on horse behavior and welfare, prompting discussions about regulation changes and potential bans. Impact on Horse Behavior Research indicates that the use of whips during races often causes physical and psychological harm to horses. Whipping can lead to behavioral responses such as increased anxiety and stress, which may be visible through signs like tail swishing, pinned ears, or erratic movements. Horses that are subjected to whipping may experience desensitization, making them less responsive over time, which can lead to reduced performance in races and a diminished bond of trust between the horse and rider. Psychological Trauma: The pain from whipping can harm the horse’s mental state. As horses are prey animals, they evolve to flee from threats; thus, the fear and discomfort associated with whipping can make them anxious and prone to stress-related behaviors. Long-term exposure to such aversive stimuli can lead to learned helplessness, a state where an animal perceives its stressors as unavoidable, leading to detrimental impacts on performance and overall welfare 2 . Performance Outcomes: Studies have shown that whipping does not significantly enhance racing performance. For instance, a study conducted at the University of Sydney found no correlation between whip use and improved race times; in fact, races conducted without whip use demonstrated comparable if not better performance outcomes. This suggests that the reliance on whipping may not only be unnecessary but can also provoke fear in horses, diminishing their inherent competitive drive 2 . 2 Sources Regulation and Cultural Shift The conversation surrounding whipping has intensified, prompting changes in New Zealand's racing regulations. Recognizing the potential for animal welfare abuse, New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing (NZTR) has called for a reevaluation of whip policies, aiming to align with international best practices. Current Regulations: Existing rules allow restrict the number of strikes a jockey can make with the whip, and any excessive use leads to sanctions. Despite these rules, incidents of excessive whipping have been reported, highlighting the challenges in enforcement and the need for better oversight 1 . Industry Perspectives: Growing public and industry consensus suggests that the use of whips could be phased out entirely. The idea that whips are necessary for the safety and performance of horses is being increasingly questioned, as evidenced by a significant body of scientific research stating that proper technique in riding and training can effectively replace the need for whipping without compromising the horse's welfare 2 . 2 Sources Conclusion In summary, whipping has significant negative consequences for horse behavior in thoroughbred racing in New Zealand. The growing concern regarding harm to racehorses emphasizes the need for a cultural shift within the industry towards more humane practices. With continued advocacy for banning whipping and implementing alternative training methods, the thoroughbred racing community is poised to rethink its stance on the use of whips, ultimately prioritizing the welfare of the horses involved.

share a list of your fast ones! but as we *know* you are nothing but a misogynous creton, eh! now feckoff back under the rock you always hide under!

one could also add in the number of horses in stable.. hench I reckon the Trainer that would come out way in front would be the one and only Mr N Eales

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

As mentioned in the lead post "not to sure were Team Orange fit in to this sort of thing?" thanks for that

gee, and here is me thinking you knew all the 'rules' of things racing! as in "the best way to improve a horses chance of winning is getting new owners!"

needing 30 jockeys! it would be a few years since a meeting in nz had that many riding at one meeting

yip the LR site says he has 70 in work for 13 W's, I recall the standard comparison suggested by a old school scribe that a ratio of even ratio of w to starters was a true indication of skills..

wow, three things jump out to me, the size of some of the fields! rather tough on the punter! the challenge of the commentator in calling them, especially when the split to either side of the track! dare I mention the use of 'the whips' compare to NZ?

sadly so... especially so if you are say trying to research wins by trainers etc (as I have mentioned before) when they first set up the horse database it was decided to only start from 88/89! when it wasn't going to be that difficult to load in all the races/horses where there were records of! Talking wins and strike rates, just try and see the wins of NZ most successful ever Trainer! a current win ratio of 20... also, a better win rate doesn't actually mean that the owner might be paying less, as shown by perhaps the best ever trainers ratio! it didn't mean that the horse was not in work! also, are the Tab offering odds? and how are the wins for Team Orange, I not that last season they mentioned all the SI wins that the stable had...

they don't pay out on that stat!

Looking very interesting this season with just 6 meetings still to go. R Dennis 33 Parson's 32 Pitman]s 31 K Tyler 31 A Furlong 31 Anderton's 28 not to sure were Team Orange fit in to this sort of thing? Are TAB offering odds?

in foal I believe

what I found interesting was how this post appeared on my fb account (not the MF one) under a sponsored post by the Trackside NZ

correct, and a nice person as well!

Home news thoroughbreds George Simon: I've seen a lot in my time, this wasn't great George Simon • June 16th, 2025 4:52 PM Uncle Charlie, the winner of a severely disrupted Ken & Rodger Browne Memorial at Te Rapa on Saturday, June 14. Credit: Race Images. Over the years, I reckon I'd seen everything imaginable from my vantage point in the Commentary Box. Then I called the Ken and Roger Browne Memorial Steeplechase at Te Rapa last Saturday. If you haven't seen the race, go and have a squizz at the replay on the Trackside site. Sign-Up Offer Join TAB and enjoy up to $100 in bonus cash with our 400% deposit offer Max deposit $25. New customers only. T&Cs apply. R18 Bet Responsibly. Claim Now That will give context around this column. From an "entertainment" perspective I'm sure there were many who watched what unfolded barely believing what they were seeing. If watching horses and riders falling off and careering all over the racetrack is your cup of tea, then you were in your element. However, from a jumps racing enthusiast viewpoint, it wasn't what you wanted to see. I don't think many people were expecting what transpired as the small seven horse field of maiden steeplechasers set off on their 3900m, 17 fence journey. The first three fences were dispatched efficiently by all seven runners. Run of the mill stuff, nothing to report. Then the fun and games started, and quite literally the circus came to town. As the field moved out into "the country" by the 800m on their first of two laps, Zeefa Zed dislodged rider Emily Farr. Bad luck for connections and those punters who'd wagered on Zeefa Zed but thankfully horse and rider were uninjured. A few hundred meters later as the field made their way up the straight with just over a lap to go, the race took a dramatic twist. Hot favourite Countryman, ridden by Kylan Wiles crashed on landing after jumping the fence before the stand double. Unfortunately, Fabulous Nancy with Joshua Parker aboard, who'd been minding its own business back at the tail of the field, cannoned into the prone Countryman and unseated Parker. After starting with seven runners, we were down to four and hadn't even completed the first lap. But wait, as they say in those ubiquitous television advertisements, there's more. After all remaining runners cleared the stand double and made their way to the fence leaving the straight, one of the riderless horses cut in front of the leader Canulovemeagain just prior to the fence. This caused Canulovemeagain to baulk at the fence and essentially firing rider Corey Wiles into the fence. Right behind that runner was Muse with Hamish McNeill aboard, and after having to veer sharply to evade Canulovemeagain, McNeill was unbalanced and also unseated from his mount. Also caught up in that skirmish were the only other two runners, Uncle Charlie and Catch And Release. Fortunately for Uncle Charlie he had enough momentum up to scramble over the fence although his rider Portia Matthews nearly parted company on landing. Trust me, you can't make this stuff up. The only other survivor, Catch And Release had also got involved in the skirmish and hadn't jumped the fence, but importantly his rider Dean Parker was still in the saddle. So, with a lap still to run and six more fences still to negotiate, we were down to just Uncle Charlie and Catch And Release, provided they jumped the remaining fences. History tells us that Uncle Charlie did jump the remaining fences and went on to record a near 90 length winning margin over the only other finisher, Catch And Release. All horses and riders were uninjured which was a relief. But as a jumping fan myself, I have to say it wasn't a good look. Yes, there were extenuating circumstances with riderless horses creating havoc setting off a chain of barely believable events. https://bitofayarn.com Also, this was a maiden field, so these are some of the more inexperienced steeplechasers going around. However, with Jumps racing under the microscope from various quarters both inside and outside of the racing industry, I hope we don't see a repeat of what we saw last Saturday, anytime soon. Jumps racing can't afford that.

no, but great to see that her and Peter are having a great season! 17 wins and counting!

how many have you spoken to? I had a quick look through the SIZE & SCOPE OF THE NZ RACING INDUSTRY, lots of stats and photos of woman! but not a lot around gender...

It's RDA volunteer week. We couldn't do, what we do, without our amazing volunteers. Thankyou to every awesome RDA volunteer. We are looking for some strong and forward-thinking volunteers to join our leading and side walking team. The role requires the following attributes: • Physically fit & healthy as leading and side walking can at times involve a large amount of walking over uneven ground • Committed & reliable • Eager to learn • Level-headed with a sense of fun! • Health and Safety conscience • At least 14 years of age Horse experience is NOT necessary - All training is provided. Tue / Thur/ Friday 9-1.15 or can be split 9-11.15 or 11-1.15 Wednesday 2-4.15 Go to website https://www.rdadunedin.org/ select volunteer tab Or email treasurer@rdadunedin.org Police Checks will be required

‘The trajectory is concerning’ - Australia’s biggest fixed odds punter exploring international opportunities By Tim Rowe - June 12, 2025 In a worrying sign for Australia’s racing authorities, one of the country’s highest turnover punters is switching more of his focus - and his investment - to overseas markets. Australia's biggest fixed odds punter is shunning domestic racing in favour of overseas jurisdictions. (Photo by Daniel Pockett/Getty Images) Australia’s biggest fixed odds punter is becoming increasingly concerned about the future of the country’s racing industry, prompting him to direct more of his resources into international betting markets. In what should ring alarm bells for principal racing authorities (PRAs) across thoroughbred, harness and greyhound racing, the professional gambler made the startling admission to The Straight, painting a bleak picture for what could be ahead for the country’s three codes. The punter, who has bet on racing professionally for two decades, has deliberately maintained a low public profile throughout his gambling career but he is widely respected by bookmakers, with his wagers regularly triggering significant market moves. He spoke freely but did not want to publicly disclose his identity. The Straight agreed to retain his anonymity in order to canvass a broad range of issues. In a wide-ranging interview, in which he revealed that he was focusing more of his time on overseas racing jurisdictions, the punter also said that: He believes that releasing early fixed odds markets is to the benefit of the racing industry. He favours tiered minimum bet limits, which take into account the market and the size of the bookmaker, as well as merged totaliser pools, and, Professional gamblers are foundational to the health and credibility of wagering markets. The respected racing gambler, who has derived his income primarily from betting on the three codes of racing since the 2000s, says the current landscape of Australia’s wagering industry and the outlook for its future poses issues for all participants including himself. “Regarding the Australian racing industry, primarily due to the current tax regime, if we model the past five years and project forward another five to 10, the trajectory is concerning,” he said. “To borrow Betfair terminology, I’d far rather be operating in the pink column than the blue - laying rather than backing. “Consequently, I’ve invested significantly in developing predictive models to enable wagering on various international jurisdictions such as Hong Kong.” Several of Australia’s biggest racing punters have turned their investment to Hong Kong over the years, with the promise of rebates and better liquidity. In recent years, larger professional players, such as Dr Nick and the groups led by Zeljko Ranogajec, have left the Australian market. The professional punter spoken to by The Straight for this article is now believed to be the nation’s highest turnover punter on fixed odds markets, while he also bets through the totaliser and Betfair. Corporate bookmaking sources indicated to The Straight that the punter consistently wins at 12 per cent profit on turnover via fixed odds markets. While he has proven his ability to beat the market, despite decreasing odds, he said “many marginal, sharp, or semi-sharp players have been forced out of the game due to rising market percentages, driven largely by increased taxation”, leading to “a less efficient, less liquid market for everyone”. He argues that the increased rate of taxation placed on wagering by PRAs and governments, such as the Point of Consumption Tax (POCT), had proven to be detrimental to all punters who bet on racing. ‘It’s a faceless game’ - Punters urge changes to reinvigorate racing “Market percentage is a direct function of turnover elasticity across all segments of punters,” he said. “While recreational bettors may not consciously notice the impact of slightly worse odds, their experience subtly changes. “Over time, their bankrolls deplete faster, reducing overall engagement, even if they can't articulate the precise cause.” A concerted overhaul of the taxation of gambling on would stop the significant decline of wagering turnover in the past few years, he said. The professional punter predicts that racing’s funding model “will continue to be put under pressure, that prize money will stagnate at best” and that it “won’t get any easier from any stakeholder’s perspective”. “Given the tax regime, it’s not an easy fix. Supply-side inefficiencies (operators and liquidity) and demand-side friction (punters' experience and incentives) both need to be addressed,” he said. “I don’t have a silver bullet, although a rebalancing of the tax regime is required. We have breached the revenue-maximising threshold, which has/will ironically result in less revenue for the industry and government (to) the point at which all are worse off.” Asked about the recent decision by Tabcorp (and Bet365) to stop posting early fixed odds prices 24 and 48 hours before some thoroughbred meetings, which led to a stalemate amongst other corporate bookmakers without a “market leader”, the professional gambler said he was “agnostic” to the changing dynamic. “However, posting markets later has significant downside for industry stakeholders,” he said. The Hong Kong Jockey Club offers a structured rebate scheme for punters. (Photo by Vince Caligiuri/Getty Images) “The shift impacts engagement from owners, trainers, media presenters, jockeys, tipsters, punters, and others. Undoubtedly, the cost will be greater than the consensus believes it to be.” He also argues that professional punters, who ultimately shape the official starting prices, helped the overall integrity of racing, indicating that “our fixed odds markets aren’t efficient enough until very late in betting”. “Efficient markets reduce risk for bookmakers, allowing them to price more competitively and confidently, such as market percentages on metropolitan meetings set lower than a corresponding field size on country or provincial racing,” he said. “With sharper markets, there's less need for excessive margins or early overreactions, which benefits punters and sustains engagement. “In contrast, illiquid or erratic markets generate unstable pricing, often mistaken for integrity risks. Wild fluctuations undermine public trust and attract scrutiny. “More accurate pricing is not just a technical win - it’s a structural benefit for everyone.” He said trainers, owners, punters, stewards, and regulators all operate with more confidence when markets reflect genuine, informed opinion rather than noise. Straight Talk Special: Insights from pro punters Nick Heathcote and John Walter on racing’s greatest challenges “In short, professional money isn’t a distortion – it’s the corrective force that keeps the market fair, trusted, and sustainable,” he said. Questioned about totalisator rebates offered to select syndicates and punters, he said “rebate systems are effective when introduced within an equitable and transparent framework”. “The Hong Kong Jockey Club offers a structured rebate program available to all players who meet the minimum wagering requirements,” he said. “After years of decline, betting revenue started an upward trend since the introduction of the rebate system.” Publicised rebates in Hong Kong are 10 per cent for win and place bets over HK$10,000 and 12 per cent for Quinella and Quinella Place/Duet markets. The punter believed that the growing popularity of the same race multi-bet type among corporate bookmaker account holders had led to the ongoing decline of the tote, the once-dominant force in Australian racing. One of Australia's biggest professional punters says tote pools will continue to struggle for liquidity. (Photo by Quinn Rooney/Getty Images) “Not only has the SRM product had an impact on tote liquidity, importantly, there is less recreational money in the tote pools in favour of the SRM product,” he said. “This has led to Australian tote pools becoming even more competitive. The edge has eroded for marginal players, triggering a quiet but persistent exit of liquidity providers that further accelerates the decline in tote viability. “Putting the negative impact of the SRM product on tote pools aside, it is clear that there have been some significant industry benefits since the popularisation of this product.” That point of view echoes that of fellow professional John Walter in a recent edition of the Straight Talk podcast, Tabcorp is seeking to achieve its single totalisator pool by merging SuperTAB, NSW TAB and UTAB pools, an undertaking that current CEO Gillon McLachlan has given publicly since being appointed to lead the wagering company last year. It is something Australia’s top professional punter believes is a necessity. “Given the consistent decline in our totes, this needs to happen. Merged tote pools will bring additional liquidity and, therefore, industry revenue,” he said.