Reefton

Well have a bloody look on racenet - there are significant variations all right(and if there aren't then why do people have multiple accounts with different agencies?) As far as 'money transaction services' goes again it was not that long ago we had to fund our own totes(the club would write a whopping great cheque for the tote float the day before the races then get it back on race night or in the TAB settlement) Promoting attendance and sponsors is all very well but if they aren't punting you are not making (much) money. People attract people anyway so of you can get punters through the gate others will follow to see what's going on. And decent punters want decent service - probably don't want every drunken know all Tom Dick and Herriet but anyway - hence talking (whimsically of course) about having access to a range of agencies.

I've been saying the Clubs should set up their own gaming agency for years. Issues however(1)the TAB has a legal monopoly so you would have to run it out of the Cooks or somewhere (2)the big Clubs have Boards that would not be brave enough(as may have a lot of small clubs) and (3) it would take a bit of setting up so you would need some REAL expertise Re oncourse totes well it was not that long ago that Clubs did run their own totes. I would contend that it is the sort of thing they should be doing. Contract to the TAB(or if you could get permission then to some other Agency) to run them at (say) a 12% commission rate - then it you wanted to entice people to punt on course you could offer either (1) a rebate on betting(eg 5% back on your bet value) or (2) increased odds. The former is safer to prevent yourself getting stung by a plunge but the latter will obviously be more attractive to the punters. Get them back on course and betting on course. It would be up to Clubs what they offered but say you gave a 6% rebate and increased your on course turnover by 110% you are ahead. Meetings with big meetings elsewhere would really lend themselves to it(Cox Plate day for instance or Melbourne Cup day - an NZ Club with a race date then is going to potentially cop some dosh through the chaff cutter! And people attract people - if you promote it well enough it will snowball. In fact say the Greymouth Jockey Club wanted to run a promotion on Melbourne Cup day without a raceday - get the big screens going and the piss flowing, prizes for the flashest dolly or whatever. No doubt the TAB oncourse operations run at a big loss so why not farm them out? Let the Clubs organise their own commentators(within reason of course) PA systems and communications (Radio Telephones for the admin stipes starter etc) - all of which the TAB deal with at the moment. Actually wouldn't it be great to get a setup like racenet letting you find the best odds over a range of agencies?

For all that Winston would want to get his A into G wouldn't he? It is only a year from the election and as it stands he and his party are getting the boot from Parliament. If Jacinda and the Greens get in alone I doubt there is going to be too much concern for Winston baby the racing industry and if the Nats re there well again not too much empathy for witless Win one wouldn't think? Getting this legislation passed is not that rapid a process is it? God knows there has been a year plus since Messara and f all has happened so far ( other than the idiot venue review)

Well I have said all the way this will come down to which act holds precedence the Incorporated Societies Act or the Racing Act. But if they put a section into the Racing Act saying something along the lines of 'notwithstanding the provisions of the Incorporated Societies Act any Racing Club or organisation holding a permit to run race meetings which chooses to relinquish such a permit will be required to ensure that the racing assets of the Club be disbursed in consultation with the NZ Racing Board and for the benefit of the NZ Racing Industry'. Will the do gooders kick up about it? Well most of them hold the racing industry in contempt anyway and are out saving the world. From Jacinda's perspective yes it might rankle but hey she has to appease Winston to keep him happy and at the end of the day they are assets owned by the wider racing industry so it's not like she is robbing Peter to pay Paul(in her eyes). AND Winston needs a bloody lot of dosh and if she gives it to him from the public purse there will be major grief from the aforementioned do gooders. Plus as I said there are no votes in Reefton(and history says what there are will crawl into the polling booth and vote for her anyway) so who cares?

They will tie in all entities holding permits to race to the direct authority of the NZRB or whatever body is filling its role. bear in mind Plunket Head Office recently grabbed all the land that their various voluntary committees all around the land had worked their butts off to purchase, build and maintain. That is one reason I will no longer donate to Plunket fundraising. And of course the CEO's and admin staff of Plunket were receiving nice fat salaries while the mugs raised the funds. St John is another example where the volunteers on the local committees are struggling to meet the demands of the National Body(well it is split into about four or five regions) in terms of the accommodation(Ambulance Stations) they are expected to provide(and maintain) and the levies they are forced to pay from fundraising while the regional organisations pay big fat salaries as well. Do those two stories invite any comparisons in any of your minds? All this Racing Act needs to do is say that to hold a racing permit one must be affiliated to the National Body and that to be affiliated to the National Body one must acknowledge that the National Body controls the ownership of all assets and the administration of the entity(so they will let you sail along doing a heap of voluntary work no problem until the shiite hits the fan). Has anyone ever heard the story of the Little Red Hen?

I imagine so. What those people fail to take into account is that Riccarton cannot survive on its own(and whats more will probably never get an all weather). Some of those Trainers think they are clever never supporting the smaller clubs and it will be hard to have any sympathy for them when the inevitable collapse of the industry happens.

Don't know about that. Our sister club got an informal(but from an exceptionally high up legal eagle) opinion that as it stands they could not take the assets but if they change the law(Racing Act) to say that all Racing clubs are under the control of NZRB/RITA then I see no reason why NZRB/RITA could not control them in whatever manner they choose. The response to a class action would be 'well you had the opportunity to submit when the bill was being debated'. Of course small Clubs have limited time and resources to put in submissions and you can absolutely guarantee there will copious lengthy submission in favour from those with plenty of time and industry funds backing them(the Trainers association, NZTR, the big Clubs and the Breeders). The Select committee will just announce that an overwhelming number of submissions were in favour and that is that. Much as National is suddenly taking an interest in the racing industry it will be unlikely to be that desperate for votes that it does anything too radical to upset big business(God knows the Breeders are probably already working on Bridges and co to make sure it goes through with out serious opposition).

Yeah well a lot of your training colleagues in the Waikato are fans of course(Tony Pike and Andrew Scott being two who spring to mind)

Our Club had the land long before NZTR or the TAB was ever thought of. Back in the 1800's. I believe it was gifted to the RJC who then gifted one half to the Trotting Club They are desperate and they have the backing of big business people who have sway with politicians(ie the Minister of Racing). They are demanding their payback for past support. Trouble is the big businessman doesn't keep this industry going as they are only in it to make a quid - it is the mug punters and the even bigger mug owners who are pouring the cash in(and of course by their behaviour and piss poor service the TAB are chasing the punters away from the sounds of things). In the case of the mug owners well economics are sending them elsewhere to spend their dosh.

Well I suppose the new legislation will legally tie clubs holding raceday permits in to the NZRB. Then NZRB or whoever controls the Racing Act will then get the admin rights if a Club relinquishes its raceday rights. Jacinda and Co are not going to kick up when Winston wants to change the law because (1) it will not happen immediately(so communities affected will be protesting long after it is enacted and therefore after their ability to argue) (2)she probably thinks of the industry as a whole not as a bunch of individual organisations(ie 'it is their money - let them do what they want with it so long as the tax payer doesn't have to prop up the industry') and (3) the real howls of protest are going to come from places like Reefton where there are no votes. I cannot see the Avondale community rallying to a "save our Racecourse' campaign or even a 'hey that is Avondale community money being given to the NZ Racing Industry' lobby. It is stealth and typical of these people who have driven the industry into the ground and are now looking for a new funding source. Of course they will have David Ellis, Patrick Hogan, Peter Vela and all their Breeding cronies saying it is a great idea.

well the way that discussion document or whatever it was put it the law change was set to be that if a Club gave up its right to race then the Authority(presumably NZRB/RITA) would legally appoint an 'administrator' to oversee the disbursement of the Club assets for the benefit of the NZ Racing Industry(ie sell off the land and assets and put it in the pot). The ARC wouldn't have to sign over their assets because they didn't/won't relinquish their licences or have them taken off them.

I was talking about NZRB/RITA not NZTR. NZTR presumably is guaranteed the funding level agreed is it not? Re the land grab well that is a whole separate issue and not related to the current financial mire in which RITA/NZRB finds itself. If the land is grabbed though I would say NZRB will be doing the grabbing then passing the filthy lucre on to the codes So what is NZTR? And incorporated society?

Under the Companies Act a director cannot legally allow a company to trade while it cannot pay its bills in the ordinary course of business(lest they be personally liable) but not sure how a statutory body works. I am sure Sir Peter Vela will have his butt well covered so would say they are protected. They are probably including in their assets all NZ's racecourses so they will say no our assets exceed our liabilities. Slippery accountants can do anything - look at them revaluing NZ Railways to create $3.5 billion of Grant Robertson's surplus yesterday. What bullshit!

Interesting - same concept re the drunken young girls as Kumara and Cromwell(and NZ Cup day I guess). Having said that one would hope they remember they had a good day at the races and venture back BUT they are not contributing to the industry when they are not punting. Michael Pitman was hugely impressed with the crowds over there for (I think - he will correct me) a Friday night Newmarket meeting at Royal Ascot time when they had a band on course and a huge turnout of punters. Anyway like I say 'I know all about what is wrong - I would hate the job of trying to fix it'

That 'outright favouritism' is a genuine belief by those guys that they can save racing by glamourising it for three or four days a year when Ellerslie gets packed by drunken young maidens and equally drunken young blokes(being the 18-40 years olds they are aiming at and who Messara talked about). What they(NZRB, Messara and Co) fail to realise is that those people have the attention span of a gnat and are not there interested in the races but in the pissup. Kumara (for all its good aspects) is yet another example. These people are not long term racing devotees and never never will be. The long term devotees are the kids getting out of bed at 4.30am to go work in a stable or the blokes(and ladies) like me who consistently weaken when we resolve not to get another share in some nag then weaken when Pitty or someone comes along with a 'Winx' (fat chance!). And we have successive racing ministers who turn up to NZ Cup day or Karaka Million night, the sales(K1 that is not the mid winter bloodstock auctions) or Kumara and think 'this is the norm' AND that it is down to their personal work that it is the norm. it is so bloody frustrating trying and trying and trying to get through to them

Yes fair comment and despite being a true blue supporter the major blame for the way it has gone in the last ten years lies with Nathan Bloody Guy! And I have made that clear to a couple of Nat MP's I have tangled with since the Messara report has come out as well(one - Andrew Falloon - said he would let Guy know my sentiments). Hopeless and bitterly bitterly bitterly disappointing the way that man carried out his Racing Minister duties. If he is the best we can do we would be better without a Racing Minister.

Yes well that comes down to the issue of the NZRB Board using recruitment agencies to get people for these roles. They probably could have got someone like Dean Mackenzie for half the price(at the time) and had a bloke with a love for, knowledge of and skin in the game. But because he probably wasn't prepared to lie in his CV, probably wasn't prepared to blow his own trumpet in his interview and probably doesn't have a string of letters after his name he would not have got a look in. And because everyone is paranoid about making mistakes and being held accountable common sense flies out the window and they appoint a John Allen who knows nothing(about Racing) but will have been the strongly favored candidate in the 'best process' process. Again they fail(as they always seem to do!) to recognise that racing is a industry with many aspects and a major one is the voluntary element whereby you dare not alienate a whole heap of people who are in it for love not money. It just makes you sick(and drives the likes of me, admittedly a very very small fish in a big pond, to disillusionment with the game and to vow and declare that the nags I have shares in right now will be the last. I might not be the biggest contributor to NZ racing but there are better things I could be doing with my hard earned)

Yes agreed but I have always said 'I know whats wrong with the industry but I would hate the job of trying to fix it'. Every single one of these operations just has a fascination with getting more and more and more and more admin staff. The big Clubs are examples as well - only open for a small percentage of the year but weighed down with admin staff 20 years ago I made an example of the CJC - for every raceday their admin salaries were $10,000. Ours on the Coast(admittedly with me discounting my fees heavily but I am an Accountant and charge Accountants rates) were about $3,333. God know what escalations have happened in twenty years but you can guarantee the difference will have grown. And the NZRB will be a victim of the same bullshit empire building culture.

The track closure question is an absolute smoke screen here. People with a lot to lose if they come under scrutiny (like NZTR and NZRB) have happily cultivated that aspect of the Messara report to divert attention from the real issues(being the excesses of their own organisations) But imagine trying to sort out the TAB/NZRB. Even if you did bullet half the staff there would be severances and grievances galore and to be effective you would have to have detailed inside knowledge for a start(to make sure you were getting rid of the deadwood and keeping the essential people who actually have some idea). It would be just impossible and is symptomatic of NZ today - most big companies or public funded organisation are just full to the brim with deadwood. The only option would be to straight out sell off the TAB operation and the clubs form their own overriding revenue distribution organisation to take in the funds and do a calculation of distributions(to make sure that those providing product on a midweek winter's day are not disadvantaged in comparison to someone racing on a summer Saturday). By that I mean sack the lot of the NZRB hangers on and let the TAB buyer sort out any excesses in that department. Far from ideal but this industry is dying and we have the 'Captains playing the ukulele as the ship goes down'

Maryanne Twentyman(nee O'Donnell) actually commentated(I think) the last thoroughbred race of the last century at Stratford. It was about the fourth race of the day and I am sure they abandoned them straight afterwards. Her father was Jack O'Donnell who was a great racecaller on the Coast, Nelson, Marlborough and the Lower North Island of the sixties, seventies and early eighties. Jack could really sing in a commentary is the way of the old days(versus the slower more deliberate style now). He really forced Reon to Christchurch as he was the West Coast caller of the day and Reon wasn't getting a look in. there would have been upwards of twenty racedays a season on the Coast in those times plus five or six galloping meeting in Nelson Marlborough - bit different now!

Her test is coming if she ends up in the Cox Plate is it not? And maybe TAS as well for Te Akau. Is it just me or are Kiwi's a little more competitive in Aussie this year? Horses like Avantage(back in the Autumn), Probabeel, The Bostonian in Brisbane and TAS are highly competitive which has not been the regular pattern, outside of the three year olds in the Autumn, for the last few years. Maybe there is at least some good news for Kiwi racing. Perhaps they are overdoing the focus on English horses over there? The hype is a Te Akau specialty. I loved Mark McNamara as a caller but the reaction after the last Coupland just about made me want to puke! For all that what and when was the last Kiwi trained placegetter or favourite in the Epsom?

Most of those racecallers are very very nice blokes in my opinion. I've met a few and yet to meet one I didn't like. Seems to be an occupation that attracts good blokes

Whats more how do they balance their books? By reducing the odds offered on other runners or even throughout the day to make it up. Even if she wins(admittedly highly likely) there is potential that punters on other winners are paying for the TAB's early call. Either the punters are or the industry is. One certainty is John Allen and his executive team will not be

No idea but the FB ad said they are paying out win bets on her already. If it is some sort of triple crown multi then it is even worse given the higher odds involved And in terms of publicity I cant say it has got them much - the facebook ad is the only publicity I have seen(mind you I don't go onto the TAB website itself too often) Bottom line is she might not win it and they are giving racing industry money away presuming she will. If something else does win it do they say 'oh sorry we have already paid out win bets?' She is not Winx

I just see on FB that the TAB is paying out fixed odds win bettors on Melody Belle for Saturday already. Clearly she is an outstanding horse and highly likely to win Saturday but she is no Winx type certainty is she? Or are they just showing off using industry money? If(and I know it's a big 'if') she was to get beat that is a lot of industry dosh pissed up again the wall