Reefton

Most of you are talking tripe here. The reality of life is that subsidising a business entity or sector is madness. And we all know exactly who the subsidised mob in NZ racing are don't we? (if you don't have a look at Barryb's list of tracks he wants to close and it is all the ones not on the list). The only option to prolong the life of NZ racing(and like Curious I really worry it is past the point of no return) is to reintroduce proportionate payouts to Clubs for their turnover. So lets say total turnover is $600m for the year and the payout is $150m(I know the later is about right just not sure of the annual betting figures). So the average Club on the average day ought to get 25% of its turnover as a return(assuming the industry can afford it of course). Now we need racing at least six days a week and year round so paying a flat 25% on turnover is impractical at this time of year or on a Tuesday say when people have spent their pay. So a bit of analysis to work out how to even that up would be needed but say the intent is to get every club $125k per day as a base. If I am racing in July with a $400k turnover I would get 31% whereas if I race in January with a $750k turnover then I would get 16.67%. Before you say that is not fair it is to make sure there is an incentive for Clubs to race on the unattractive winter, Mondays or other undesirable dates. Clubs racing on Saturdays could maybe get a little more percentage wise so they can afford somewhat higher stakes BUT the idea of Derby day turning over $4m and paying out $2m in stakes is utter madness. The downtrodden battlers of the game - whether they be trainers, owners or whoever - are merely subsidising the fat cats (we all know who they are) on those days and that is not good enough. If NZB want to pay a fortune for KM night all well and good but don't expect the NZ industry to pay for it(especially when a lot of NZ trainers cannot even think about buying something from Karaka). As an incentive to Clubs to provide a quality experience there should be more paid for on course turnover so that they provide attractions to racing newcomers. Despite what Barryb has to say you only need to think how many Cantabrians who might go one or two days to Riccarton per year religiously turn up to Kumara 150 miles away - the point is the quality of the experience (despite what a dump Kumara actually is). AND plenty of flashly dressed women turn up to Kumara as well - the point is people like to be where others are and Kumara is one of those places. Riccarton on the other hand has very very few days in a year where more than a handful of people turn up and they need incentives to correct that. Now of course the upshot of a 'receive what you earn' scenario is that the 'big' clubs(essentially all the ones Barryb wants to keep open)would find that they are living beyond their means and would have to either reduce their costs, drastically reduce their stakes or bite the bullet and relocate(which ultimately is the best option for NZ racing). Places like Te Rapa, Trentham and Riccarton are shit holes for significant parts of the year hence nobody wants to go there. Sell them up and buy property in better draining areas where you can set up decent tracks and better facilities(hopefully tied in with transport options - Riccarton for instance to West Melton or Darfield beside the railway line. Te Rapa to God knows where). And most importantly don't let 'turf experts' within a million miles of the tracks. I have said it a thousand times - any time an expert touches a track they bugger it up and there is no better example than Te Rapa. Ellerslie with its property income streams could probably survive but if Ron Brierley was running it it to would be sold off(or at least totally redeveloped in joint ventures for commercial property) and the proceeds used to fund a decent facility somewhere further out(of maybe even Avondale since it is clearly a superior track surface). It is basic economics but of course the Messara Mafia would not accept it as they persist in thinking that the small clubs are somehow getting a benefit at the big Clubs expense. Considering some of those guys are pretty successful businessmen they are surprisingly accepting of blatant subsidising of certain organisations within NZ racing. How would Sir Patrick for instance have reacted if NZTR had said that Waikato Stud breds got 20% added to their stake money because that was where they were bred? In conjunction to encourage top quality training facilities I would have the home track of every runner paid for each runner produced(more if it is stabled in the track as well but someone like Steve McKee or Byerley Park with their own tracks and property would get industry help to maintain it) And finally one thing we all agree on - take the machete to the hierarchy of NZ racing and sort out NZRB or RITA (or whatever the eff it is being called this week), the TAB and NZTR. No more bloody import CEO's for a start.

No doubt the bleeder faction will have someone lined up to push the Messara line relentlessly

Wrong surname and not from the right area(geographically) or the right Club one suspects Pam. What I know they must do and what they think is the right thing to do are two vastly different things

Just got a second call for nominations for the vacant director position. Clearly nobody is interested in joining the no name no talent no hoper Board

Fair comment but you can be sure the 'employer' will still be in the gun if there is an incident involving someone under the influence and people know about it. The CJC and or NZTR could even be dragged into it for tolerating it. Bearing in mind 'employed' might just be riding one work for someone. Doesn't necessarily mean full time employment. Danger danger danger

Well the plot thickens. Your post implied that we were dealing with the same person. What we are dealing with is a one possible wrong result(given that the meth one, if what you say is correct, seems likely to have been a question not of whether there was meth present but what the level was). Can I ask what those at the Riccarton track are doing making use of someone who they apparently know is an habitual cannabis user? In the event there was an incident how well would that reflect on the Industry overall? OSH would just love it. And if you were the unlucky one for whom this person happened to be working at the time I suspect we might have another S McKee situation only with a hell of a lot more culpability given it seems everyone knows of the danger. And it might not even be your horse he/she is in charge of but because you allowed someone to potentially be in harms way AND something happens to your staff member then that could be construed as negligence. And here's me thinking Bernard and John had lot to answer for in regards the reputation of the NZ Racing Industry. I hope your legal costs insurance is up to date (though one of the things the insured is responsible for is to ensure that the insurer is not - knowingly - put in a position where there is a possible claim on the policy) Dear oh dear!

Foik imagine the tripe he will be spouting to Jacinda. Almost(but not quite) makes you feel sorry for the silly b#*"h!

The meth 'positive' (they actually call it 'non negative') would show correctly that there were meth traces. The ultimate non positive finding is to do with thresholds(ie there is meth there but below the thresholds). The on site test only shows up the presence of drugs in the system not the level(when there is an indication they send it to the lab for further analysis). I asked the drug testing people about the possibility of the same person getting an incorrect negative test for cannabis and an incorrect positive test for meth at the same time - they laughed. I am a little carried away re the cannabis hair thing - that is only in they are a regular user. A one off puff is not going to taint your body forever.

The systems for testing are pretty thorough Pam and certified so I suspect it is more likely the other way around. The ability to detect cannabis use from long ago via a hair strand is fact (provided they undertake that hair test that is)

Meth disappears from your system very quickly whereas if you have a long enough strand of hair they can tell if you have used cannabis in the last ten years. So you can have a P session over the weekend and test negative but smoke a joint Friday night and the following week the residue is still there Hence someone being sure they will be positive and not being to meth yet turning up a non negative(the way the drug testers describe it) days later

Like his friend Winston he lives in fairyland

Wouldn't be a bad idea. And get a David Walsh or someone of that ilk to walk the track first then interview them to get some proper indication

Well we haven't got a track manager so I guess I will have to do the honours when it comes our turn ' This here's a track. That stuff down there is grass. If ya follow that bit of white plastic there it won't be long till ya are back where you started. Other than that I cant tell ya f-all. Punt up will ya cos God knows we need all the help we can get'

That's the sort of good news story the industry needs on mainstream media

Somewhere without internet would be quite good BB???

Oh dear A of A. You quoted me back exactly the quote I referred to in the eleventh post on this thread. You need to keep up. The issue with Thomass is not his right to an opinion it is the inevitable drivel he starts spewing if anyone takes him on. Notice the number of threads he starts and nobody else comments because they know what will happen. Plus his clear tendency towards lewd remarks and his inability to use even passably correct grammer and spelling. If he wants to be a pain in the arse he should expect people to get sick of him. And besides which he continually attacks me and for some warped reason referring to Dean MeKenzie who I cannot recall ever commenting on, or criticizing, who I do not know but who people who do know say is a decent bloke ( though is only one of several on the MAG so will not be the saviour on his own anyway). The original point is this - Isreal Folau can say whatever he wants. The problem is that people take any notice of him. Folau is a good rugby player full stop. I have no more interest in his morals and opinions on non rugby matters than he does in mine. If I want expert advice on how to train a horse I will ask Pitty or Freda or someone of that ilk who have been there done it. If I want to know how my horse ran I will ask CWJ or whoever rode it. I am not going to ask Micheal or Pam or Chris what they think about (say) the conservation movement in NZ because I do not believe they have any expertise in that area. Admittedly Pitty is a bit of a mate of mine so we might discuss all manner of things but that is because we are friends. This problem arises pure and simple out of the hero worship of these guys which, other than purely for his(Folau's)ability in a variety of ball sports, is unjustified. My kids learnt things(in terms of their outlook on life)from their mother and I and their mates not from some screaming pop star or sports person. Let them get on with their sporting or acting or whatever endeavour and admire them for it but for God's sake I am not interested in their opinion on global warming, homos, abortion, politics or whatever else they take to social media to comment on. And the world needs to take far less notice as well.

I wont waste to much time on you Thomass because you are a plonker and not worth the effort but I will reflect on how your coming back on stream has (again) chased away a lot of regular posters on the site You are halfwit but lines from two songs come to mind when I think of you - first Kevin Bloody Wilson '... you're a pisstank and a pervert and you're not even very bright...'. I have no idea(and no interest) about the first description which makes me think of Meatloaf '.... don't be sad cos two out of three ain't bad'. In the words of Dennis Connor '...You're a loser, get off the stage'

Do not be concerned CS. I've been the subject of attacks by individuals far more poisonous than that imbecile. I have however had a couple of beers this evening so Tommy Titmouse will be replied to tomorrow morning.

Yes Pam and I am sure there are a lot of points of view you take with a grain of salt and just move on not start screaming in the media for their head.

I would usually ignore you Thomass because as usual you are talking tripe but the issue is not what Folau had to say but that anyone is interested in what he has to say. He is a good footballer not necessarily a shining example of how we should live our lives. I liked watching Tiger in his heyday because he could smash the ball a million miles - I am not interested in whatever else he gets up to or his political opinions or anything else and nor am I interested in Folau's opinions - I may or may not like watching him play rugby or whatever but that is as far as it goes. The problem in this world is that the opinions or actions of Folau or Tiger or various 'celebrities' are plastered all over You Tube or facebook or whatever - why the hell should anyone care what they think or do? - for all we know they may have an IQ that matches their shoe size. The problem is the idol worship of these people that the net encourages For all that..... There is a saying(not sure who it was) - I might not agree with what you have to say but I will defend with my life your right to say it. And there is another problem with all this political correctness whereby the madmen like the Christchurch nutcase congregate on the net with the other 50 loonies of the same opinion around the world and their madness festers until it explodes. Had he felt free to talk to actual people about it early on it would have either been knocked out of him(don't be so bloody stupid!) or at least people would be aware and, one would hope, the cops would have become aware as well. But the net gave him an outlet that political correctness did not and what is the result?

Yes but very applicable to NZ racing where those who overspend and mismanage their resources then look to those who have been diligent and cautious to prop them up.

I was just perusing my facebook postings and sharings and suddenly thought how well this fits the situation in the New Zealand Racing industry. A quote from one of the greatest of all American Presidents

bloody hell - expecting the breeders to contribute to group and stakes race stakes - that will go down well with that mob!

Those big Clubs have NEVER earned enough to fund their stakes(mainly because their average stake is of course much much bigger). The difference now of course is that the overall revenue has dropped so much that, despite the lesser amount the industry is paying government via duty, probably no club is generating enough betting to support itself(ie it is all being done on borrowed money or reserves). So desperate measures are required to either increase revenue or to decrease costs. I contend/suggest slashing the takeout rates on betting to lure offshore punting and returning the on course operations to the Clubs(as a start to reduce the cost of running the TAB)