Reefton

Tabcorp and those outfits are all public Companies aren't they? Do you expect the Aussie Government to subsidise public companies as well? And another thing - there must be a quid in it for them because otherwise why would they bother? Just set up in the northern territory like the bookies and work out of there.

So why is the NZ industry not booming ( and don't tell me the diversity of betting operators is the reason because you just said they take more out of betting revenue than does the NZ TAB). From the sounds of things the NZ Industry is deluding itself that it is effed.

That is and example of taking not giving. I asked how the NZ government gives more to the industry here than does the Aussie governments? Do you think that Racing industry participants in this country do not pay income tax(to be fair a lot of them will be paying none based on their incomes) And does the TAB not pay duty and GST on it's income?

how?

There are three basic issues here especially in light of the comparison and second cousin status with Aussie racing... First Australian racing is clearly massively supported by the various state governments(you only need to see the Queensland Government's reaction last weekend to that strike). If we had a racing 'strike' the government would roll about laughing and the TAB would, as has previously been said, simply replace NZ racing with product from Outer Mongolia or somewhere/anywhere else they could get it. Nobody would notice and even fewer would care. We are not going to get government assistance when (1) the vast majority of the population doesn't give a stuff about the industry, (2) there are public servants constantly bleating(rightly or wrongly)about how hard done by they are and how they deserve huge payrises and (3) there is this perceived(again rightly or wrongly) issue with poverty, homelessness and social issues demanding funding. Following on from that is their(Aussie) concessionary tax regime for Breeders which has resulted in Godolphin and Coolmore(among others) setting up over there with a vastly higher standard of stallions. Subsequently the NZ breeding Industry has been left behind and our sales are (1) being dominated more and more by Australian bred (or at least Australian stallion sired) product and (2) becoming less and less relevant in terms of international achievements of sales graduates. The Breeders might think the Messara proposals are going to save them but I cannot for the life of me see how that is going to change unless the government really gets behind the industry (and that ain't going to happen - it is not politically acceptable bottom line). And the Aussie Trainers are now looking more and more to English sales of tried horses to get horses they know have shown ability at competitive prices(plus the frightening domination of the current carnival by international trained runners). And third is this clear and total indifference to the plight of the industry of the hierarchy (especially the NZRB board) in the game. That is of course something the Government could easily change but show no sign of doing. Winston has a vague suggestion of a 'review'(haven't we had enough reviews?). The NZRB board simply don't care(and one wonders if the NZTR Board are any more sympathetic) So as it stands we are stuffed. The revenue being generated cannot support current stakes levels, the Messara report is clearly not going to go through lock stock and barrel(and will not work anyway to achieve what they claim) and the NZ product (both the horses produced and the racing itself) become less and less attractive by the day. I know this talk is negative but it is reality. In the National Party thread I compared the racing industry to the West Coast region. We have so much potential just waiting to be tapped but the government of the day(and every other government in living memory) is determined to strangle that potential by refusing to allow us access to the resources we need. In racing's case it is the attitude that it is a 'fat cats' industry for the rich and a resultant determination that it be screwed to the ground by taxation and duties. The fact that the public know Winston's backers are a small number of wealthy racing enthusiasts does not help that impression. And in both case the problem arises from the fact that there are simply not enough votes in either the Industry or on the West Coast to make taking up the cudgels attractive to any MP(except Winston of course and most of the country think - again rightly or wrongly - he is an idiot). It is desperately frustrating and really quite depressing but it is reality and whatever De Lore and co, Hogan and Chittick and their mob, David Ellis and the Waikato Trainers might think we are stuck in this shit hole with no way out. Imagine if was here that Coolmore and Godolphin had set up and where the Sheik and Magnier's millions were being poured into? The reality is we may as well accept that the international racing industry has passed us by. We are never going to have a field of Winx's ridden by a range of Dettori's or Moriera's. Until the inevitable collapse comes and government takes notice that is the way it is.

And that summarises the tragedy that is NZ racing right now

Been saying that for years. To the NZRB and TAB the stakeholders are just a pain in the arse continually complaining about their performance. The best thing that could ever happen to those two is complete collapse of the racing industry then they could sail happily along playing the send leg from Outer Mongolia to keep the mug punters happy, getting trips around the world and regular and substantial payrises. Life would be simple

That s a fair sort of a downer you have on the local industry there Sickness While I can sympathise with a lot of your sentiments could I just ask a couple of questions (1) have you given up on racing completely or do you now conduct your activities in another jurisdiction? If so where? (2) is your interests in ownership, admin, holding a licence of some description or just punting? (3) if you don't like the 'habitual moaning and sniping' that goes on on this and other websites shy subject us to moaning and sniping of your own?

I never said she is next in did I? I'd say at least three years away from a decent spokesmanship or Ministerial post but a couple of years after that look out. As for being straight from Varsity well she may be but clearly is a rising star and that sort of history does not matter in the National Party - there are a lot of highly successful business people in that party who will be sure she is on the right track before she is let loose. Unlike the Labour Party which is chocka with Political Science graduates with no life skills or experience but an incredible depth of knowledge about how every one else should live their lives.

Yes he gets in for three years makes an arse of himself and gets booted out then spends (usually six) years stirring up malcontents before the swing of the political pendulum gets him the chance to hold the country to ransom like he has done three times already. It ain't longevity it is an ability to act like a plonker on whatever issue might squeeze him 5% of the vote then ponce around saying look at me.

I surprise you? You don't even know me. Why would the National Party want to do anything for the Coast anyway? No political party is good for the West Coast nor any of rural NZ. In our case (1) there are no votes her and (2) because the average West Coaster has some sort of hangup about the depression they invariably vote Labour(embarrassing and infuriating but there you are). And the Labour Party continues to drive the boot fair into our guts - last time they were in it was the native forestry industry this time the mining industry they will shut down - in Lange's years like all rurual areas we last huge numbers of jobs and even more services. There is parallel here of course - why would the National Party want to help the NZ Racing Industry? (1) there are no votes there - anyone in the industry with a modicum of intelligence votes National any how and I for one am not going to base my vote on the benefit of the NZ racing Industry ESPECIALLY now it has made it quite clear to me that I and my ilk are no longer required and (2) the 'fat cats' in the industry are bankrolling NZ First and have Winston in their pocket. That might be a successful short term strategy(remember the $1m races?) but Winston never lasts because,as I have told you several times in this thread, he cannot help but make a prick of himself and it will happen again. And you can say what you like about John Key - he was stunningly successful before he got into power(versus a fish n chip wrapper), donated all his salary to charity and despite your piffle on the Pike question I happen to know he went out of his way to personally help a victim of another West Coast tragedy INCLUDING making personal trips down here (officially described as undisclosed purposes). He neither sought nor got publicity for that but I bet the person in question will be forever grateful for his help.

No comment re the Pike other than to say the is a lot more to that than ever came out in the media. I have to live here.

Yes and despite the fact the place is sandfly ridden your dope smoking non showering crackpot green mates (another branch of the coalition of loonies) will insist they are endangered and that nobody can touch them. The only living things they are happy to see eliminated are the poor bastards trying to ekk out a living in places like Taranaki and the Coast. One thing the Fruit Loops in the Labour led government hate with a passion is anyone who is productive.

Funny last time I looked Mike Hoskings was the number one rating host on NZ radio. Fifty million blow flies can't be wrong.

I'm not worrying about Winnie NM as I said he will shoot himself in the foot soon enough. When you are as slippery as he is sooner or later your conniving behaviour eventually catches up. As for Javindy 'laffin' she has been quiet because she knows people who live in glass houses need to be bloody careful about chucking stones. She is only here for a short while and has to be careful not to become cannon fodder when witless Win inevitably explodes. She has a tough job with all the halfwits in her caucus and coalition. Thats the difference between Simon and Jacinda - he has one maybe two loose cannons - she has a government chocka with them.

Yeah hard to pick who is best for them. Judith is clearly unacceptable to the Caucus, Nikki Kaye has health issues, Bridges is clearly average at best, Mitchell has his Middle East history to contend with which leaves Amy Adams. It could be worse - thank God Nathan Guy is no hope! Their lack of empathy with racing is a real worry but Winston and Messara are liable to leave no racing game to worry about anyway. People in the know tell me a bird called Nicola Willis is the rising star - only got in when Joyce resigned but was John Key's speechwriter (I think) and apparently the real deal but probably too soon for her in 2 years time. I didn't much like the ease with which non Kiwis could buy assets here but not too much international demand on the Coast so didn't really affect me. Aucklanders did well out of international buying interest and Auckland is where the votes are so there was a method in the madness

Reread what I said NM - Winston cannot possibly help but make a prick of himself. He always does and it is only a matter of time. Bridges is a bit of a worry but you don't get to the top of the Nats unless you are a top liner. The reason being the Nats are chocka with top liners unlike the red side. Take the boss out of the Labour led government and what's left? As our local MP said a gaggle of gays and self serving unionists. Read no hopers. As I said Jacinda and the bewildered one both took on Nat heavyweights in electorate battles and got soundly thrashed. That's not opinion that is fact. Two years is a long time and given the JLR disgrace has only cost the Nats 2 per cent in support the Labour Party knows their only hope is no viable coalition partner for the blues turning up. Even their core union support is turning on them. The clock is ticking.

Mrs Horse Teeth got her arse well and truly booted the two times she took on Nikki Kaye in Auckland Central. Had to move to Old Mother Clark's safe seat to get herself an Electorate. And Witless Winston has been shooting off with the mouth(surprise surprise!) about Bridges in Parliament - hate to remind the bewidered one but Bridges wiped the floor with him twice in the Tauranga seat then he got slaughtered by a complete Nat unknown in the Far North seat last time. Mrs Horse Teeth and Woeful Winnie - especially Winnie - want to remember the old Wally Lewis saying while they are throwing their weight about - 'it ain't far from the penthouse to the s#*thouse'. Based on his history it is a matter of time before he makes a complete cock of himself - he always does.

No it hasn't 'got my gander' but it clearly has yours. How come the media in Aussie are not all over these 'disgraceful' events and circumstances? Why have Waller and Weir not had their licences withdrawn if they have been up to such nefarious deeds? If there has been any wrong doing I am sure the powers that be have given due consideration to charges and penalties and, given they are still holding their licences and running horses I can only conclude that either they have served their time or there was no case to answer. I have better things to do than research the life history of either party and, as I previously said, if I had a dollar for every rumour or story about a racing figure I have heard I would never have to work again.

Well are they abandoned or not? And is a slippery track the issue? And if the problem is a sprinkler malfunction then who was responsible for making sure it was working correctly? Because according to Messara these 'retain' tracks are the creme de la creme of NZ racing and much the best run so who is going to put their hand up ESPECIALLY given they, based in your claims, knew this has been a problem for the last few days. Why did they not check that the part of the track was safe early this morning so they could cancel before everyone left home? Who will pay the float fees for all the 150 plus horses carted there today?

I don't care who you are referring to - you are making sinister insinuations about both of them. And unless there is hard evidence I am not that interested in believing any of it. That is the Stewards job(and since most people here seem to hold Aussie up as the be all and end all of world racing then their stewards must be the absolute best as well mustn't they?). Most trainers(both here and there) make a lot of use of the vet and that is life. Whether Waller was implicit in that horse sale saga I have no idea and even less interest but (1) he never got charged and (2) the employee served his time so I cannot crucify Waller for re-employing him - or are you saying he should have been banned for life(because saying nobody should employ him is effectively saying exactly that).

Due to slippery track apparently What a great judge of which tracks to retain that J Messara is!

He is not a client of mine so I am not interested in making judgment on any of that. I admire the way he runs his stable(not his ethics necessarily) and the systems he and the other interstate trainers use. I am not commenting on what he may or may not do drugs/treatment wise as it is hearsay other than the odd positive he may have returned(wasn't there one for meth?). If I had a dollar for every story I heard in racing about this horse being doped or that jockey being pissed or that trainer being crooked I could live ten lifetimes and never have to work again. I am certain if the story about the stipes finding the truck full of syringes and paraphernalia is true he would have been charged. One thing that I do know as an Accountant and as an Auditor for many years is this - if you want to do something crooked do it yourself without anyone else - because if there is cooperation someone will spill the beans eventually. Waller will have had disaffected employees like every boss and would every single one have shut his mouth if the rampant doping you suggest is going on? I VERY much doubt it. As for some sinister implication that Chief Stipe is watching this and taking note of what I have to say - I don't think I am that important or relevant in the industry that anyone takes any notice of (or much less cares) about my views. If you think RM that he(or they) are the only ones up to that sort of thing I think you are pretty naive. When I was kid at Varsity in the early 80's at Riccarton it was rife and I then had an old Uncle with a good horse who got told by a VERY respected trainer(long since retired) in the mid 80's 'If you are not on this stuff you should be fined for not trying'. 'this stuff' being the hormones/steriods in vogue at the time. That particular horse won 18 races but only ever had three vet bills - one to geld him, one for 'pre race vitamins' (when he had his one and only start for another trainer) and one to put him down. We have all known for a hundred years it is he with the best vet/chemist who goes best in this game and if you think you are going to stop that then I'm afraid you are pissing in the wind.

All good and accepted but until the powers that be stomp on that stuff then those who (allegedly) do it have the advantage. And that brings me back to the comment that it is bloody hard to win a race. I don't care what Waller or whoever supposedly get up to - I still admire their business skills to coordinate such a massive operation. I haven't got a horse with them nor am I ever likely to have a horse with them(or anyone else after the current mob are finished) and if someone chooses to give them their horses that is their prerogative.. Anyway once Messara fixes NZ racing it will probably be rife here(if not already)

Not 100% familiar with that(the re hiring part) but if so I agree it is a bit of a stain but as far as the medications etc etc etc well tis the world we live in in racing I'm afraid. If you are going to keep up you have to make plenty of use of the vet I really think that is why Singapore pay vet fees - so they can be sure what each horse is being treated with. if we were not so widespread(in terms of trainer locations) it would not be a bad system to implement here - register the vets and require them to disclose every treatment. Keeping up with technology is essential but not everyone can do it I guess.