Reefton

I reiterate - if they are that good how come they aren't doing it for themselves and making a fortune out of us mugs? (and I am happy to admit I am a mug punter - don't spend enough time on study , let stable bias into it and do not pay enough attention especially at this time of year)

Be careful what you say Sunshine Your alter ego on the other side bagged the s*#t out of Matt for tipping Carnival in the Stewards last year and had to eat a fair lump of humble pie. If these Aussies you lot worship are so good(and they are very polished to be fair) surely they would be professional punters not tipping to everyone else for a living?

Hadn't bothered looking at this string until now... You lot are getting as nasty with each other as that brother of mine over on the dark side. Not quite as poisonous as him but just as nasty Can't you just play nicely in the sandpit? One of the principal reasons(I believe) CS started BOAY is to avoid all the put downs

https://www.racing.com/news/2018-07-24/hawkes-time-to-streamline-vic-tracks These views do not necessarily reflect my own so I am not flogging this line but this guy is interesting(on several topics - love the comment about the jockeys car park)

Oh sorry - I don't keep up with who says what in international racing. If he is still in Aus why wouldn't they have aimed him somewhere last Autumn?

Lets just give up right now eh? You have always been pretty logical(even if I have argued over some points) and positive Curious but you seem to have abandoned ship. For instance what is the point of all this work you have done at Foxton if the industry is absolutely rooted? You are of course correct Hesi National would have sat by and done nothing(and I am a National man). That is a major part of the problem - the Minister controls it and in Guys case he was an idiot who did nothing and in Winston's well who knows? Bringing some control back to to the participants is in my view a logical first step.

Surely Lloyd Williams would be demanding Rekindled return? In fact I am surprised he let him leave Australia.

Well at the moment he is as much of a hope as the industry has - in particular the galloping code - so we can be excused for looking forward to it surely?

Far less use fair comment Pam. But far less attention on a daily basis as well I imagine. My point is every one of these tracks they do up has problems(maybe not permanent problems but major problems for a long long time) I reckon Riccarton is only coming right now 22 or so years later (mind you you as a trainer will know far more about that than I).

Comparing racetracks to rugby fields and listening to what Andrew Mehrtens has to say in that regard is stupidity. Run those Crusaders horses round and round and round and round flat stick for a day and see how AMI stadium comes up. Strathayr migiht be the answer or some other form of AW track but it is pretty clear AW tracks are far for the be all and end all in world racing. As I said in another thread it is notable how much better the steeple courses are than the course proper and that is because invariably they have not been 'renovated'. They have had just as much rain as the course propers and probably far less attention from all these 'experts' and yet they are superior. Leave the tracks the way nature laid them down and you will find no where near the issues with the going. In my opinion (and to be fair this is more to do with business than turf tech or science) the bigger the 'expert' the more crap they talk. Witness the economists constantly predicting doom and gloom for the world. The only time they stop predicting it it happens.

Off to Hong Kong I see. Well done young man! Couldn't get a Group One gig here but hitting the big time over there. I think his first gallop meeting was at Reefton so its a long way to Sha Tin! I imagine Matt Cross(a wasted talent here for sure) will be eyeing up the Singapore vacancy

pulled the plug not plugged the plug!

The prospect of flooding. We(in my time as GJC Secretary) discussed the possibility of an AW trotting track but if you have seen the Grey River in high flood you will know why it was not feasible. And like a lot of Committee people the general feeling among the GTC was if we lose our track we will be out. We at Reefton would be the same(as will the vast majority of Westland if it happens) 'if they don't want our track they don't want us' and will just walk away. I have been looking for an out for years so it certainly will not worry me if Messara plugged the plug on us but please don't expect me to contribute with either enthusiasm or financially elsewhere. it might be only a thousand bucks plus petrol money and time but it will be gone from the game if that happens. Thinking through our sponsors I suspect there would not be too many keen to front up somewhere else and the committee - not a one. Even racing them is a massive drainpipe for cash (bearing in mind having a 20% share of a $600,000 winner) so regardless of what Messara does when the current selection of donkeys are done I will be unlikely to take up the cudgels for another go anytime soon.

true in many cases but Riccarton is flush right now isn't it? Not my call Pam - only reporting what the strong word about the place is. Kumara's reliance on the other Coast clubs to stable their runners has been a point of debate for years and years along with their reluctance to come around and help clean the aforementioned stables out when everyone has gone home. They(well some of them) do have a bit of a superiority complex about their meeting. I don't think Kumara is as cash strapped as what it used to be - it used to be a bit lavish in some of its spending on raceday hire etc but I think that has been curbed. When the rest of us brought the new gates they struggled to pay their share(in fact I think the late Diane Howe paid it for them or at least lent them the money) Check that count for yourself - Winnie is a bit prone to guessing figures - the other day he said there are only two unrecovered bodies in NZ mines(other than Pike). There are two in Strongman alone let alone Brunner and Kaitangata and whatever other disasters there have been. As I said in previous posts - if you don't have ten of these AW tracks dotted about the place you are hardly going have adequate cover for on the day cancellations(not that I am advocating ten AW tracks). In this day and age the bottom line is that health and safety overrides everything and we simply have to stomach the cancellations. Does anyone else notice that every time there is a steeplechase run at Te Rapa or Wellington or Riccarton how they say that the going is so much better on the steeple course? Invariably those steeple tracks have not been 'renovated' but equally will have had just as much rain as the course propers. All the turf culture brains in the world will not improve on tracks set up by nature and hence the lack of cancellations on tracks that have not been 'renovated'.

Interesting possibility. I think though Kumara's attraction is its uniqueness - run more than one meeting a year and that will go out the door(though they tell me NZTR are dead keen to have the Westland meeting permanently moved there). I actually suggested that Kumara convert to a trotting club and install an all weather - 99% of the drunks wouldn't know the difference much less care. Another helpful suggestion totally ignored.

He had in mind winning back Northland to keep his party in Parliament. They won't win that and I might add Christchurch is not 'the regions' either so it is a misnomer to describe it as coming from the provincial growth fund(neither is Dunedin either where Jones was lavishing money about today). And you are hardly going to transfer from Omakau to Riccarton(or wherever it is) on the morning of the races when the track is dodgy are you? Interesting to not that apparently if you hold off until the morning of the races to cancel(like Westland) you get a lot of the NZTR payouts anyway whereas go a couple of days early(like Kumara) and you get nought. Great incentive for Clubs to hold off and prevent (say) Reefton being all set to host the Kumara day next year if the shiite hits the fan. Another example of forward thinking to stop the stakeholders getting opportunities. Still good to have the money coming into the industry and to have the possibility of a good even winter surface.

Ruakaka is probably strategically significant given the shortage of decent winter tracks so suspect it is safe

Having said that a valid reason to close courses might be the transport cost of all the TAB gear and crew to different places all the time. If they have to cost cut that could be an immediate focus. Again I am not saying I believe in this or that I support it just that this is how they may justify it

Lets see what his report brings eh? The closing tracks suggestion, like the restructuring of the NZRB and the asking for government support is all educated guessing at this stage. Its not far away now

I think you might be misunderstanding my thoughts Huey. I am not saying I want tracks shut down just saying that Messara and co could use it as a lever to try to get relief or assistance from the Government 'Look Minister we have taken strong steps to get our house in order how about a handout?' I think it would be a stupid idea but hey if it loosens the purse strings of government or somehow gets a better result for the stakeholders then I would be prepared to sacrifice 'my' course(bearing in mind fighting any such a decree is not my decision alone) so long as there was consistency. I don't know that there is too much gratitude for the effort that goes in anyway and then there is the comments on the other side about committee people not knowing what they are doing so if it ain't appreciated why would I bother?

Well yes but he got money out of the NSW Government didn't he so might think he or we can do the same out of the NZ Government. He is pretty limited in his options form where I sit and that is one of the easier suggestions. Hacking away at the costs to run the NZRB is all very well but public servants tend to cling like the proverbial to a blanket when radical cost cutting is suggested. If past experience is a guide they will get rid of the capable ones and retain the idiots then contract the good ones again at about 3 times the pay rate to sort it out. Farming out the admin of the betting platform is a way but the NZRB needs to be radically restructured and that will meet some resistance. Anyway whatever he suggests the big day is at hand and I can't wait! There will be some nervous people in Parnell or wherever it is I would say.

I agree but if they close some tracks then it will appear they are taking constructive steps to do something about the industry. All the enthusiasm in the world on the part of (say) the Reefton committee is not worth a knob of billy goat s#*t in the global scheme of things racing wise. If the track closed the day would go elsewhere or disappear and they would punt on the second leg from outer Mongolia or somewhere. Besides which the Trainers and Jockeys would probably be delighted to see the back of the place. I have always said the NZRB wants to get rid of ALL NZ racing so they can run their empire and not have to answer(even indirectly) to the NZ stakeholders. That culture has to change and Messara will hopefully kick that away. In my view the best thing he could do is bring back accountability on the part of the Boards to the grassroots whether it be jockeys trainers owners clubs or whoever. Not holding my breath for that to happen though.

If Messara asks for Government support that will be a big fat NO! This government knows Winston is stuffed and if an election were to be held tomorrow he would be out on his ear @ 3% approval. In the last nine months the West Coast has experienced a loss of confidence like never before (not unlike NZ Racing but over a much shorter period). It is all driven by the Greens and Jacinda's(read Helen Clark who is clearly pulling the strings here again) intense hate of mining. Despite it being pretty clear Shane Jones and co would be on our side they are totally powerless to stop Eugenie Sage and her hencemen unless they are prepared to force a snap election by voting for the other side. Racing will be in no different a situation(in fact there is probably a lot more sympathy for the Coast out there than there is for NZ Racing) National will do nothing because (in the case of the Coast) they are looking for support from the green faction to get them across the line(and anyway the Coast generally - and infuriatingly - votes red regardless). In the case of racing there are no racing votes for the Nats - well none that would swing on racing alone - and then they are on the austerity push as well so they are hardly going to become Santa Claus to the NZ racing Industry. No I hope Messara's message is not one of Government support being required cos if it is we shafted(just like the Coast if this carries on - at least that will be four tracks closed I guess).

thanks but I reckon it is a case of take on trust - looked quite smart first up but disappointing since.

well they can't do much about the weather can they? The days of ploughing through knee deep mud in absolutely torrential rain are long gone unfortunately