mardigras

ATA - get Chris to fill in the ???? with all his knowledge. Thanks

Here's some info relating to government. Doesn't include any participant related GST or income tax. Is just one wagering operator in Oz versus the only wagering operator in NZ. (I think the participants in Australia pay income tax and GST, like they do here - no doubt a lot more than here). This is from the TABCORP annual report for the wagering business for 2019 and the NZRB annual report for 2018 (The latest NZ annual report doesn't provide the breakdown). Of course there are many other operators paying various amounts into government hands as well. In $millions.

You are not a very good reader of people. I am very humble and very well know the areas I don't understand or grasp. And will happily admit them. But in areas I know very well, you will think I'm arrogant - no doubt like you think your doctor is arrogant when he discusses medical related things. You confuse arrogance with knowledge.

I'm certainly not even trying to run second, I'm not even in a race with him. I think he's a horse trainer. I'm not. Just like your brother, you think people like trainers know everything. Talk about gullible. No wonder it's so easy punting and winning where you're indicative of who I'm betting against. You and your brother make a great pair - gullible fools.

Actually, they get a tiny amount of some duty/GST. Which is paid in Oz also. They also give around $80 - $100m to the racing industry each year separate to that. You're such a gullible fool. You actually think Chris Waller knows all about the fees the TABs pay the governments over there. Sure he does. Why wouldn't he. You're about as stupid as I have read on these sites. And that is saying something - you may have surpassed your brother.

Yeah - sure they do. From clearly someone who is clueless. Tell us how much the government gives racing over there? Don't forget to incorporate things like the $410m TABCORP paid VIC government for its latest 12 year licence. Along with the other fees the TAB operators pay in order to have an exclusive tote licence. And please add in the income tax they pay the federal government. I can't wait to see all these numbers that actually show the governments giving the industry anywhere near what the industry players are giving them up front. The government is just giving a little of that back. You are so far out of your depth, stick to watching videos, you and business are not a good mix.

Yep, as per my very first post on this thread. A National Hunt program in the winter. Did you miss that?

Yep, as part of a racecard where all the other races are jumps races. Not races for any of the standard flat based runners. They will get a handicap rating that is a NH rating, not a flat rating.

They are National Hunt races. I expect there will be no races less than 2400m on the flat on turf in the winter, and any that are, will be one race on the day at that meeting and the rest will be jumps races.

Not on turf tracks except National Hunt races as part of a National Hunt program (i.e. usually staying distances for NH horses). There are none that I am aware of and if there are a) I'd be surprised and b) the number would be tiny.

I'd say you're not sure of anything. But since I don't currently own any horses, and bet very little here, I'm happy to stay out of the discussion. I am really looking forward to watching from the sidelines when RITA tells you how much money they've got to share with you all. All because you are so insular, you can't see past your own situation. You have got it wrong though in regards whether shutting down the industry for a year+ would make a difference to me. I'd expect it would make a significant difference. Time to remove the tit that the industry is sucking on, allowing that to be spent in areas that benefit the entire country - of which I am a part of. Not shutting down, will just be a continuation of that drain on funds that have nothing to do with NZ racing, along with a plea for more, no doubt. The country's going through some difficult times, yet you still think the government should cough up some more for an industry that is basically insolvent. How very considerate of you.

I'm not sure what you're getting at - I said I would support a national hunt type schedule in NZ. Maybe if we had all weather tracks, we could run the odd meeting for flat horses in winter, although I don't see it as a big requirement. Are you suggesting Haydock Park runs non-NH flat races in winter - or Lingfield Park runs flat races on the turf in winter. Perhaps you can give me the last time, and the number of times, there are flat races on turf (non NH), in winter for these tracks per year. My suggestion of a National Hunt program would fit quite well in with your enjoyment of jumps racing, I would have thought, but you are going to have a lot of difficulty finding many non-NH turf races in winter there.

I'd fully support shutting down flat racing in NZ for 3+ months each year. Of course they effectively do that in the UK from Huey's perspective since he is not a fan of 'all weather' tracks. They could start up a NH equivalent which could gain momentum over the next 5 - 10 years. Not as good an idea as shutting racing down for a year or so - to completely overhaul it and bring it into a world where it isn't rivalling MSD from a social welfare perspective. Or we could just get even more money from the government and carry on acting like we're entitled for some reason. And complain about things in two years time when there still isn't any money.

They probably make sense to anyone not blindly following any leadership. They aren't likely important in the scheme of things anyway, but it sounds like you're reporting things are not going well. I was looking forward to Level 2 and some form of normality - but your news may prompt the government to take us back to Level 4. The chief won't like that.

Seems clear enough to me. Don't assume how to interpret everything you read - and equally, understand what is represented in what you are reading.

Nope. You may not know they are lies.

I stopped reading a third the way through. As to transparency and truth. You can definitely have one without the other. You can be transparent with lies and you can tell the truth without being transparent.

The lack of income from NZ will be affecting them though, as they don't appear to have made any significant moves to cut their costs. So they will have costs continuing for what would be related to staff etc for NZ racing. It just highlights though that they require massive revenue from other things, otherwise there is no money. Pokies, sports and off-shore racing contributed approximately $215m of their 2018 total net betting revenue of $315m. Their costs at $213m in 2018, were more than double the net betting revenue of NZ racing. So without massive changes to the cost structure, one 'arm' of their income stream by itself, appears incapable of making any money. They should have massively curtailed their costs during this period, to enable the revenue from Australian betting to keep them making money overall. But they were clearly too stupid to do that.

I'd say that the industry is close to pulling the curtains if they can't even make a profit from what they had to work with. They're missing all that free money from the Pokies. Well done RITA. This demonstrates where things are really at for the industry. Australian racing alone has been generating a lot more net betting revenue than NZ racing has each year. Which suggests what they received during this time would be greater than what NZ by itself could currently achieve, if NZ racing were to try and stand up on its own feet. Therefore NZ racing as such is insolvent in this particular area. Well done again. Maybe they need to diversify and start operating some income tax free bakeries. They seem to get whatever other income streams they want and pay no income tax - and just shift it off to the industry

People incapable of distancing their own needs from the needs of all, are very common. He is just another in a long line.

I'm very right wing. I don't hate Donald Trump. He is a very intelligent person. As for him in politics, I'll let the Americans decide. I don't really give a toss what they do there - although I do find Mr Trump quite funny.

Not going to well here are we?. Since you haven't got that right. Who said I don't have a contrary view of the response that this government is enforcing on the public. I do to an extent, which suggests you're implying that I am calling myself of low intelligence. I'm unlikely to do that. My posts haven't generally been about whether we should be in lockdown - although I'm certainly not opposed to it. My posts are about the economy - and being in lock down not having any effect on that. Just like not being in lockdown isn't having any positive effect in Sweden, as it is facing the very same issues we are. It's what you get on sites like this. People trying to work out things like cause and effect. They see the effect on the economy - and they are so simple, they blame the lockdown. I can't help it if people are gullible. Seems like you are equally so. So whether we are in lockdown or not, isn't a focus of mine from the economy perspective. And so given the economy will be what it is, I guess the lockdown might have some positive impact to the overall welfare of the countries inhabitants. Time will tell whether the side health issues of lockdown make that true or not. But I've not got anything to help me decide that at this point, one way or the other.

I'd expect RITA to have a fair bit of money from the last few weeks of no NZ racing. Able to continue generating revenue, assistance with paying salaries from the government. A likely 15-20% shift from punters usually betting on NZ races onto Australian races (or more). Lower costs related to travel, broadcasting etc. So either the codes will have it (if distributions have continued), or RITA will have it. It's unlikely to be as much as what would be generated in these 6 - 8 weeks normally, but it should be more 'net' than what would otherwise be delivered since no stakes money has been paid out. Hopefully, whatever has been accrued, they don't just throw away, and they start working on how to bring NZ racing into something attractive. But I doubt it. They are just happy doing what they do with no consideration of the industry sustainability, in the hope that NZ racing can simply be continued to be funded by things unrelated to NZ racing.

The chief has started his own propaganda thread. Doesn't like what is happening in NZ, so this is the best he can do. I thought you had more intelligence than all this trash. I thought wrong. Talk about gullible and naïve.

You think NZ's lockdown is severe - try Malaysia's.