mardigras

Seems that whilst barry had nothing to comment on regarding the video you put up, that you don't have anything regarding the video yourself. Did you notice the top factors from Mark. Ability and fitness. I'm surprised he didn't mention things like down in grade, gear changes, 3yo after Christmas or apprentices in the wet in his top 5. Perhaps your brother should send him the blue print.

What would you like to discuss from the video. Nothing particularly starting from the punting side of things. Mostly pretty standard stuff I would have thought. But I certainly agree with the comments about taxing bookies etc and how good it would have been if they had done things differently way back, and had bookies offering fixed odds - excluding the ability to offer tote derivative prices. And keeping tote as a valid offering. Pretty well exactly what I stated 13 years ago pre the shift of the TAB to offer fixed odds. It's funny how no one wanted to consider that back then, and now we have a couple of guys suggesting the same thing. All too late of course. And in NZ's case, just how sad the results are to the industry of getting it so badly wrong.

Yeah, technology should be the winner. But wasn't.

A billion? That's only a little bit less than what the Nats injected into racing in those 9 years.

Chief, I haven't said there is a use for the information. I'm in support of information being shared on the basis there are punters out there that think this info will be useful. I'd have zero use for it myself.

No, I've agreed that information such as this is a good idea - in general. It isn't a good idea here since the industry is failing and doesn't have money to waste on frivolous things - especially things that won't add revenue beyond the cost.

Did you see 'major racecourses worldwide' NZ doesn't have any of those.

And should that have happened, then she shouldn't have had a black type win. That's racing. The same could apply to any horse prior to them winning a race that should be black type. A sales series race shouldn't be. The Melbourne Cup could be the first black type win for a horse. Doesn't have any relationship with whether it should be black type. Anyone that understands the grading/classification of black type and what it is for, would realise that.

Interesting given no handicap races in the UK earn black type (rightfully so)

Because everything comes at a cost. And I think the HK racing industry can afford it. If NZ racing actually made any money, maybe they could consider it. They don't. It would sit on the list of things to do as a 'nice to have' at best.

Are you suggesting that these very good horses that run and win this race, are only going to achieve a Listed win as their best black type. Some do have trouble understanding simple things. If the horses are any good, they will achieve far beyond a Listed black type result. Making the Listed black type result largely superfluous. As it should be in a sales restricted race anyway - where it should have no status, just money. This is simple stuff. Back Type is not good horses against good horses. Otherwise handicap racing would fit being suitable for Black Type. It doesn't fit. It's like discussing something with a person that has no idea about what Black Type means. Go away and annoy someone else. You're even wetter behind the ears than I thought.

Exactly, they go for the money. I couldn't care how many good horses race in it. The Listed Status is worthless if they are any good. You are very wet behind the ears.

And after getting those 30 readings, and still losing. You'll be wanting more readings. And readings around the corners and the back straight. Because horses drawn wide are often racing wider in those parts as well. Is that an advantage or a disadvantage. And you'll want to know to try and work out why you keep losing.

The Karaka million shouldn't be Listed. Are you suggesting that the entries in the Karaka Million are there because it has Listed black type status? How comical.

So we will be getting the readings around the entire circumference of the track, every how often, 1m apart?. And how far apart across the track, every 30cm? For a 30m wide track of 2000m circumference, that's only around 200,000 readings for the punters to chew on. Can't wait. The info will just result in losing punters wanting something better since what they have isn't enough. And they'll blame the lack of (useless) information for their own inadequacies. Sound familiar?

So according to what is written - Freda thinks handicaps shouldn't be G1, but according to you, she would think it absurd for the Melbourne Cup to not have black type. Does she think G2 or G3 is OK. Perhaps Listed? The notion of handicaps being any form of black type is one best suited to dunces. You fit well.

Best you tell Freda she has it wrong as well then. "...and I agree, handicaps should NOT be Grp 1, pattern races are for determining the best of the crop, handicaps are for betting."

They wouldn't care. There isn't any horse where the black type from the Melbourne Cup adds any value as a breeding proposition. It is simply ignored. To get anywhere, they need black type that actually stacks up. It doesn't from the Melbourne Cup. Based on what you just wrote, you must think it has value in the breeding barn. How funny.

It shouldn't. Most people who fully understand horse racing and things like black type, would agree. Probably why you don't.

If you say so. But since you claim your method is able to be used by anyone as part of your education program. The last 500 BP runners have resulted in 47 winners with dividends totalling $411. Which is not bad I agree. But about as good as a dart and a dart board would achieve. Many of those were put up pre race on this site - even asking for further clarification from you as to whether they met the BP. Funny how not once did you give an answer except to say which ones did after the races had been run. Odd that.

Changing a race from handicap to SW&P to try and attract a better quality field is hit and miss anyway, given the overall level/numbers of quality horses racing in NZ. So I suspect those races (and more will continue to be downgraded). We shouldn't have black type handicaps anyway. That in itself is a joke. Since black type and breeding is supposed to be about the best, not the best relative to handicap. Just run a handicap for whatever stake you want. It doesn't require any black type status.

It could be that way if the races were considered more competitive. If a horse is majorly advantaged by way of SW&P or WFA, then the relative interest in the race can dwindle - especially in areas such as tote betting. Fixed odds, probably not to the same degree - which would be more dependant on the competitiveness of the pricing. In a highly competitive market (not race), where there is a short priced runner, betting will be higher. Such as on a competitive betfair market with a 1.10 chance. betting will be greater than a race with a 5 favourite - generally on a site such as betfair. On the tote, the $5 favourite race is likely to be more attractive to punters.

Because they have punters interested in their racing and this is a small extra piece of information, which in the scheme of their racing, is a small cost. It will cost (even if only a little), and last time I looked, there wasn't a lot of money around. And it's highly likely that it wouldn't generate any extra revenue.

The info is only useful if the jockeys don't know it, like in ATA's example.

I'm confident that if all the other jocks are already over there, there isn't anything stopping the horse on the rails going over there too. Only if the jockey doesn't know it's off. Otherwise, they wouldn't be there. Luck isn't a factor. I'm not advising anyone to do such a thing. It's what I do, as that is where I believe I will find the best value. Due to all the sheep that think like you affecting the price of runners. I certainly aren't expecting my horse to be on the rails the whole way. I expect the jockey will put the horse into the position that gives the horse the best chance of winning.