mardigras

That's particularly funny - since they've already passed 20,000 covid-19 deaths. (I think everyone is going to die anyway).

That's equally just propaganda fuelled from the alternative side. What a load of unsubstantiated bullshit this is. Every decision comes with consequences. The cost of this lockdown is roughly $1 billion PER DAY. The situation NZ faced would likely be very much the same if it hadn't gone into lockdown. Without lockdown. No tourism, massive reduction in hospitality revenues, limited motel/hotel revenue. Jobs being lost, unemployment increasing, government paying out for that. The only people that couldn't see that are those that seem to have an agenda of their own. Talk about scaremongering.

No problem, as I say, I've provided the answer to my last question.

I haven't seen any answers to my questions, but I will answer the last one for you to save you working it out. There are 31 countries with an equal or higher current testing rate per mil than NZ. One of those other 30 countries has a lower case rate per mil than what NZ has. (Greenland). The are 51 countries with an equal or higher current test rate per mil than what 50% of the NZ rate is. Seven of those other 50 countries has a lower case rate per mil than what NZ has.

How do you think NZ is stacking up in new cases over the last two weeks per million (since that comprises a fair amount of the lock down period). If we have a such a high rate overall as you suggest, is that still the case relative to the rest of the world for the last two weeks? If it isn't, are you now suggesting just how good the lockdown has been in slowing down our case rate? Do you think there is a link between testing rates and case rates? Can you tell us how many countries with as high a testing rate per mil (as NZ has), that have a lower case rate per mil, than NZ? Thanks, I look forward to your answers.

Taiwan are doing pretty well also. No doubt helped by the fact they reportedly had advance knowledge of the virus last year. China had stopped issuing Visa's to Chinese people to allow them to travel to Taiwan and the early treatment/border control of people into Taiwan. Couple that with good knowledge experience from previous SARs type viruses and a high quality of health systems available. Good on them.

I would have expected the same - lock down or no lock down. Time to diversify, redeploy, reskill. Yes tough for many. But some will look forward and seek opportunity rather than complaining about something that was largely outside the control of anyone in NZ. Shit happens, get over it.

I wasn't working off stats. But maybe you have now come to the view that what Ardern said is difficult to argue with - given it is subjective. As I say, my opinion is that NZ has a lower case rate than Australia. Just as it is my opinion that Brazil has massively more cases than what has been officially reported. Just like you could say that the case rate in Ireland is higher than some of its neighbours potentially due to a higher level of testing, which may also help reduce the death rate if those extra cases are not those presenting at hospital. All conjecture of course.

So if in your opinion, Australia has a lower rate, then does that preclude NZ having one of the lowest rates. Interesting analysis. I'd certainly say we have one of the lowest rates. My own view is that we have a lower rate than Australia, but that's my opinion.

It depends on whether you think the actions of parliament is essential at this point. Or whether you think it more essential that people have access to food supplies. It's a pretty lame point imo.

But we only know they are half full or even less now. You have no ability to know what they would be like - if the action taken wasn't taken. They may have been overloaded if the action wasn't taken. The analogy is a poor one. Since the data is retrospective and doesn't cater for the how the event is changing. My bakery is relying on normal life continuing so that what is happening now is able to be used as a guide to what will happen tomorrow and next week. The data we have now is not as reliable as that given the changes the event is able to bring about - which is crystal ball gazing. You're suggesting that because we had 9 cases yesterday, that can continue if the restrictions are lifted, and everything is sweet. You're suggesting you know more about the impact of the virus than the scientists do. And they'll all talking crap and filling us with propaganda. Your propaganda is no different to the political/scientific propaganda - by suggesting the virus wouldn't have the impact expected and you also seem to be saying that the action taken is having a more severe impact on the economy. They don't know what the truth is, and neither do you. But I'd rather they took the advice of supposed experts than the advice of a racing enthusiast.

I didn't say your statements about what is in place, are not fact. Your view on countering them as being required is a form of propaganda. Since you are sharing a viewpoint on those items - even to the point of saying you wouldn't follow them. You're implying that things such as #6, wouldn't have been the case if it weren't for the actions of the government. You are trying to counter that these things need not have occurred or were not required. You have no ability to know whether any debt incurred by the government would have been greater or lesser if they hadn't taken the action they did. And your final two paragraphs are opinion. One could argue an attempt to discredit what has been done, but without knowing what would have happened without the actions taken.

Of course, all of that could simply be your own form of propaganda. There are plenty saying the same thing that you say, doesn't mean it is right. People can make their own choices as you have above. As for propaganda - such as the propaganda that the economy is down the toilet due to being on Level 4. I'd call that propaganda that many have fallen for. Usually there is two sides to it - and in this case, there definitely is. The problem we all face is that no one on here (or anywhere), can say what would have happened 'otherwise'. We can only know what has happened, the rest is speculative. No one knows whether hospitals would have been full or still empty, or whether job losses will be more or not 'otherwise' People should make up their own minds. It's a democracy and you can choose how you use your vote to impart your view, when that time comes.

No - your question was and still is irrelevant. You are letting what limited capacity you have get clouded by your own needs. This is the very essence of NZ racings problems. Always thinking of themselves individually. Insular in so many ways. Classic. As I say, people that know me, will tell you I will make decisions irrespective of what they do for me - often to my own detriment. You clearly are incapable of doing that. Sad, but true. And it is somewhat important to me whether they run or not - but far more important to the industry - that they don't run if they are restricted. They reflect a classification system. If they run without unrestricted entry (other than the terms of the race itself), then that means the classification loses value. That's important to me since I may buy horses in the future, but more important to the industry in maintaining integrity in that classification system.

Which highlights just how stupid your previous statement was. Next time, think about the obvious answer before asking something ridiculous. It's irrelevant, but I have raced 3yos and I've never raced them in the South Island. But I would if I thought any were worthy of a Guineas start. You're simply not getting it, so like your mate - you have to deflect to irrelevant things. You've been found out with showing you have no reasons to shift these races other than you think they should shift the races because of representation. Next time, just say that. Maybe they should shift the Melbourne Cup to the UK - since so many of the runners are from there. Save a lot of transport costs, quarantining etc.

Thanks for confirming there are no real Covid-19 reasons to shift the race. You just mentioned subjective elements. You lot supporting this are so insular and elitist, it's hardly surprising NZ racing is in the state it is. Brilliant - what do you think the actual owners of Karaka Million horses would want. I think it is you that needs to take your elitist hat off, and actually think about things for once.

I'm not objecting to the races being shifted north. I'm saying if they are being shifted because of Covid-19, there is no need to run them. You are simply not understanding why I am saying it shouldn't be run. It is 100% because of the supposed reason behind shifting the races. Covid-19. If they are shifting them BECAUSE of Covid-19, then that is suggestive of there being issues with horses be able to compete. And they want the best horses they can to be able to compete. If this is the reason, clearly the races should not be black type (which sort of nullifies the need to move them). If they are shifting them supposedly BECAUSE of Covid-19, and as you suggest, any horse can travel - then Covid-19 doesn't bring in any additional reason to shift the races than what has existed in prior years and likely future years, costs. (So no reason at all related to Covid-19). So is the possible shift because of Covid-19 - or another reason. you seem to have al the answers. As to your think about it comment. I have. And you have demonstrated an inability to show why they should shift up north outside of the reasons that have applied for the last 15 years, and will likely apply for the next 15 years. So please tell us - what are the Covid-19 reasons that support the shift.

What issue is that?

Then the issue isn't abut the virus - it's a decision to move the races because the industry believes that should be done. Which is it?

Thanks for helping with the stupidity of having black type if there are 'restrictions'. If there are no restrictions, then why move the races? If they impose restrictions, then remove black type.

If there's no problem transporting the horse North, equally no problem transporting them South. Simple.

Probably is crazy for anyone thinking that things like the Karaka Million should be black type. I'm happy with crazy, thanks. Aren't South Island 3yos entitled to any G1 opportunities equally. I guess not. Cancel the races, no real issue. Good 3yos can go and race in Group races in Oz.

I use the same data. And their data says the same thing. The 'rate' of cases 40 days after achieving 100 cases is higher for the UK than it was for Spain. As is the 'rate' of deaths. Spain achieved their cases quicker, but from a days perspective, they have currently brought that rate down slightly faster. Either way, if it's just a cold, I guess we don't mind. The issue of gullibility is on both sides. There are those gullible to believe that the virus is worse than it is. Heaps of those. And there are those gullible to believe the impact on the economy due to lockdown is worse than it is. Heaps of those as well.

We assume the Australian industry is earning revenues from their racing. if it isn't, by continuing to race they will be bleeding money big time. And I am not saying you're right or wrong on any of this. I'm saying, whether we are racing or not, and whether they are - doesn't mean they are doing better or we are doing worse. It's simply conjecture. I don't disagree with your other points. But they are hardly a lock down issue.

How so? I can only assume you have confused the UK line with the Iranian one.