Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Everest Turns Milers into Sprinters Tara Madgwick - Tuesday October 17 First run in 2017, the $20million The Everest has evolved into the race most trainers and owners want to win and as a result the quality and profile of the horses now aimed at this race is entirely different to how it started as pedigree shows the first three home this year are in fact milers, so where does that leave the one dimensional sprinters? Joe Pride is on record as saying how keen he is to try Think About It over longer trips and after the son of So You Think won the Stradbroke at 1400m he would have been aiming up at an entirely different preparation this spring had it not been for The Everest. Advertisement Runner-up I Wish I Win is a typical son of Savabeel to look at and won the Group I ATC Golden Eagle at 1500m last spring. He probably would have given Fangirl a run for her money in the Group I ATC King Charles Stakes (1600m), but that race was worth $5million as opposed to The Everest at $20million and he got $2.9million for his second placing while Fangirl got $3million for her win. Third placed Private Eye was also second last year and the son of Al Maher first rose to fame winning the Group II Queensland Guineas and Group I ATC Epsom Handicap at 1600m, before he reverted to sprinting to take advantage of the big purses on offer and has now got $8.8million in the bank for his connections. For trainers that can turn a miler into a sprinter, the positives are obvious with huge prizemoney on offer and a wealth of speedy squibs to set the pace allowing for the strong finisher to come over the top. A rocket ship sprinter like a Nature Strip at his top would leave the newly created miler sprinters in the dust, but there are precious few of them. Another thought to ponder, once upon a time in a world with no Everest all three of these Everest placed horses this year probably would have been on a Cox Plate trail as that was the race to win for the best horse in the country. Even if you weren’t a true 2000m horse, you’d work down the elite WFA path and have a crack because you wanted that chance at being the best of the best, sadly for the Cox Plate it’s going to be lessened with the passing of time by the absence of these quality milers being re-routed to sprinting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 What a load of horse shit. Quick look at this years winner sees damsire Golden Slipper winner Flying Spur. IWIW's pedigree is loaded with sprinters. Redzel won it twice...Nature Strip won it..so it leaves one dimensional sprinters earning heaps of prize money. Black Caviar-22 wins -' so where does that leave the one dimensional sprinters?' Tara must be as thick as a breezer...block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy connolly Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Best sprinter does not equate to best horse, Black Caviar was unbeaten but only in sprints whereas the likes of Kingston Town, Dulcify, Daryl's Joy, Tulloch, Frankel etc. produced a turn of foot over any distance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 5 hours ago, billy connolly said: Best sprinter does not equate to best horse, Black Caviar was unbeaten but only in sprints whereas the likes of Kingston Town, Dulcify, Daryl's Joy, Tulloch, Frankel etc. produced a turn of foot over any distance. No one is arguing that...case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 11 hours ago, holy ravioli said: Quick look at this years winner sees damsire Golden Slipper winner Flying Spur. One sire? You overlook the middle distance stayer sires that dominate the pedigree. 11 hours ago, holy ravioli said: IWIW's pedigree is loaded with sprinters. Savabeel?! Pins - Australian Guineas winner over 2000m. @holy ravioli we've found something else you are not good at horse pedigrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: One sire? You overlook the middle distance stayer sires that dominate the pedigree. Savabeel?! Pins - Australian Guineas winner over 2000m. @holy ravioli we've found something else you are not good at horse pedigrees. Oh Dear....lets see Savabeel won over 1000m as a 2.y.o,was 2nd in the Orr over 1400m,his damsire was Success Express ,noted sire of sprinters. As for IWIW's pedigree=dam was a winner at 1200m and 1300m,2nd dam Starcent won the Ra Ora classic over 1200m,Snppets the sire of Pins was Australian champion sprinter,throw in Kaoru Star,Centaine,Century...and the pedigree is dripping with...speed machines......please try...harder.🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: Oh Dear....lets see Savabeel won over 1000m as a 2.y.o,was 2nd in the Orr over 1400m,his damsire was Success Express ,noted sire of sprinters. As for IWIW's pedigree=dam was a winner at 1200m and 1300m,2nd dam Starcent won the Ra Ora classic over 1200m,Snppets the sire of Pins was Australian champion sprinter,throw in Kaoru Star,Centaine,Century...and the pedigree is dripping with...speed machines......please try...harder.🤪 Your analysis for Think About It? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Your analysis for Think About It? Dam side ,sprint winners galore...dam,2nd dam sprint distance winners,Flying Spur won the Golden Slipper SYT's dam won over 1400m.Plenty of staying blood too.🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 None of the three in the article have dominant sprinting pedigrees. Think About It DP = 2-1-6-5-0 (14) DI = 0.75 CD = 0.00 I Wish I Win DP = 0-1-3-0-0 (4) DI = 1.67 CD = 0.25 Private Eye DP = 4-8-16-2-0 (30) DI = 2.00 CD = 0.47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: Dam side ,sprint winners galore...dam,2nd dam sprint distance winners,Flying Spur won the Golden Slipper Flying Spur has a middle distance pedigree hence winning the Australian Guineas. His best progeny won at 1600m or more. He even sired a Caufield Cup winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 24 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: Snppets the sire of Pins was Australian champion sprinter,throw in Kaoru Star,Centaine,Century...and the pedigree is dripping with...speed machines But each of those sires left middle distance horses through their daughters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Just now, Chief Stipe said: But each of those sires left middle distance horses through their daughters. You are now engaging in a selective circular argument. Who judges what is 'dominant' in pedigrees that go back decades. 'But each of those sires left middle distance horses through their daughters. 'What relevance is this? Any horse you care to mention will have sprint and staying influences.🤡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 27 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: Oh Dear....lets see Savabeel won over 1000m as a 2.y.o,was 2nd in the Orr over 1400m,his damsire was Success Express ,noted sire of sprinters. Oh Dear......Savabeel won a Cox Plate and the Champion Stakes over 2000m. Success Express won a 1600m race as two year old in race record time. He also sired a NZ Oaks Winner...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Just now, Chief Stipe said: Oh Dear......Savabeel won a Cox Plate and the Champion Stakes over 2000m. Success Express won a 1600m race as two year old in race record time. He also sired a NZ Oaks Winner...... So what!!🙄 Your father may have been a genius....we can see that doesn't make you...one!😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: 'But each of those sires left middle distance horses through their daughters. 'What relevance is this? Any horse you care to mention will have sprint and staying influences.🤡 But as the original article I posted said the first three place getters in The Everest are bred to be milers at least. Your logic is circular - you mentioned sires that were sprinters in their own right but sired middle distance horses and were successful broodmare sires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 Just now, holy ravioli said: So what!!🙄 Your father may have been a genius....we can see that doesn't make you...one!😁 You are the one who said the article was horse shit but haven't come up with anything to counter it. Einsteins father wasn't a genius either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 8 hours ago, billy connolly said: Best sprinter does not equate to best horse, Black Caviar was unbeaten but only in sprints whereas the likes of Kingston Town, Dulcify, Daryl's Joy, Tulloch, Frankel etc. produced a turn of foot over any distance. The best middle distance horses usually have an exceptional turn of foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 You said....' we've found something else you are not good at horse pedigrees' I produced evidence of direct sprinting influences. You can accept the evidence or reject it. It matters not. Nothing black or white about breeding race horses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 It is probably why Peter Moody has said that Imperatriz is currently the best sprinter in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: The best middle distance horses usually have an exceptional turn of foot. Is a mile/1600 a middle distance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Just now, Chief Stipe said: It is probably why Peter Moody has said that Imperatriz is currently the best sprinter in Australia. Yes and the AB coach said Ireland were the best rugby team in the...world!So far Imperatriz is looking like a MV specialist...if she wins the Championship at Flemington she may be rerated.🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 36 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: You said....' we've found something else you are not good at horse pedigrees' I produced evidence of direct sprinting influences. But each of the three individuals are not bred to be sprinters regardless of any remote sprinting evidence that you may elude to. Two of the horses in the article have won at 1500m or more. One has won an Australian Guineas! Nature Strip an out and out sprinter never won past 1200m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: Is a mile/1600 a middle distance? Yes. A sprint is classed up to 1600m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: But each of the three individuals are not bred to be sprinters regardless of any remote sprinting evidence that you may elude to. Each of the horse in the article have won at 1500m or more. One has won an Australian Guineas! Nature Strip an out and out sprinter never won past 1200m. I could give you countless examples of horses bred to be sprinters that stayed and vice versa. This is ABC stuff for people with even a smidgeon of knowledge about breeding thoroughbreds. Ahem...I alluded to nothing-I presented undeniable facts.😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 21 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: I could give you countless examples of horses bred to be sprinters that stayed and vice versa. This is ABC stuff for people with even a smidgeon of knowledge about breeding thoroughbreds. Ahem...I alluded to nothing-I presented undeniable facts.😜 If you shoved your arrogance where the sun don't shine for a moment and re-read the article you may get the point of it. Instead of calling it "horseshit"! The first three horses don't have sprinter breeding and two have won over 1500m or more. Not many out and out sprinters get past 1400m. There are always exceptions but they are few. The trainer of the winner wants to race him over longer distances which he is bred to succeed at. I guess it is one of the reasons that Moody kept IWIW fresh. He ran third in the Memsie first up over 1400m then didn't race for 6 weeks. The other point the article makes is that The Everest has thrown a spanner in the race pattern. The lure of the dirty lucre! Another one of the reasons I don't think the race will have longevity. Although overseas horses might save it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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